Abolition of Alcohol

[Truthseeker]

Yes indeed that is the truth. There will be people that an partake in a responsible way.

The interesting point to consider is that alcohol, no matter how responsible you are, effects the capabilities of the Mind. That is why there are laws in relation to driving while intoxicated. Without those laws many responsible people would be less responsible.

So why would an intelligent person want to dull the capacity of their mind?

From a person that does not drink, sitting in a group that does, I can say that the capacity on intelligent conversation deminishes the more people consume, yet they remain unaware of this and even think they are offering great wisdom.

I know this as I am usually the dedicated driver.

Regards Tony

There is nothing like offering illustrating examples as you are doing.

 

[joelr]

It may be that it what is needed. So I will agree to disagree and hope the best for all peoples.

Regards Tony

The amount of effort it would take, push-back and crime it would create and would not save many people. How many alcohol abusers would switch to smoking or over eating junk food? Probably a lot. While alcohol causes 95K deaths, smoking, obesity, bad diet kills way over 1 Million.
So if saving people is the goal you would want to ban nicotine, and all junk food, sugar and so on.

An estimated 95,000 people (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes

Unhealthy diet contributes to approximately 678,000 deaths each year in the U.S., due to nutrition- and obesity-related diseases, such as heart disease, cancer, and type 2 diabetes.


480,000 deaths from Cigarette smoking annual

People have rights. Obviously banning sugar is absurd. You can push leaders for more education about health and alcohol. We do not need more right taken away from us. If someone wants to ignore their blood pressure, gain weight, eat bad and then has a heart attack at 40 it's their choice. You can try to steer them in a better direction. But taking away rights is not the answer. You don't use alcohol so it seems fine to you. How about if they took away all sugar foods, high saturated fat, desserts and so on? Kills far more people?
It isn't the answer. Also the jails would be full of regular people who got involved in underground alcohol distribution. Some would get repeat offender and so life sentences. Do not give the government more power.

As it is drugs should be legal at a clinic that includes counciling. This has worked in other countries. Low death rate. Meanwhile in the US people are dying of fentanyl laced heroin every day or getting arrested

 

[Truthseeker]

It is not needed for you, but you cannot say the same of others. It is seen as a pleasure when used in moderation, and certain recreational activities, alcohol adds to the experience of it for them. To try to take that choice away from others when it can be used responsibly, is prudish and invasive. That's not something that people in a free society tolerate very well. They liken it to being ruled by the Taliban.

I'm not in favor of taking away choice in this matter, but people need to be educated that it destroys more than enhances life.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The amount of effort it would take, push-back and crime it would create and would not save many people. How many alcohol abusers would switch to smoking or over eating junk food? Probably a lot. While alcohol causes 95K deaths, smoking, obesity, bad diet kills way over 1 Million.
So if saving people is the goal you would want to ban nicotine, and all junk food, sugar and so on.

An estimated 95,000 people (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes

Unhealthy diet contributes to approximately 678,000 deaths each year in the U.S., due to nutrition- and obesity-related diseases, such as heart disease, cancer, and type 2 diabetes.


480,000 deaths from Cigarette smoking annual

People have rights. Obviously banning sugar is absurd. You can push leaders for more education about health and alcohol. We do not need more right taken away from us. If someone wants to ignore their blood pressure, gain weight, eat bad and then has a heart attack at 40 it's their choice. You can try to steer them in a better direction. But taking away rights is not the answer. You don't use alcohol so it seems fine to you. How about if they took away all sugar foods, high saturated fat, desserts and so on? Kills far more people?
It isn't the answer. Also the jails would be full of regular people who got involved in underground alcohol distribution. Some would get repeat offender and so life sentences. Do not give the government more power.

As it is drugs should be legal at a clinic that includes counciling. This has worked in other countries. Low death rate. Meanwhile in the US people are dying of fentanyl laced heroin every day or getting arrested

My thought is that it will not take a prohibition, I am more inclined to see it will be what people eventually accept as the right way to live life, how and why they will consider that option has not yet unfolded.

Regards Tony

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We need to regulate ourselves and not drink alcohol, though not prohibit. It needs to be taught in schools before they are of the age to drink. There is no responsible drinking of alcohol for many, it destroys many lives. And they don't know beforehand if it will destroy their life or not.

That's a lot of things in life. And we can't pad all of society from everything that is potentially harmful to some.
I do agree we need to promote responsible consumption, and shift society's collective towards discouraging abuse instead of acceptance and encouragement of occasional and periodical abuse.
But this doesn't mean we need to abstain. I had a small glass of Irish cream whiskey today. Big whoop. If we encouraged more drinking like that (and it must be responsibly and limited due to my meds) and less New Years and birthday abuse we'd be in way better shape.
As many others have pointed out, if we address the reasons people turn to substances enough to cause such a disorder we'll be significantly better off, especially if we collectively acknowledge and agree addiction and dependency are medical crises, not a crime to be punished and destroy lives.
We also need honest conversations about drugs. Such as doing away with "drug and alchohol." Alcohol is a drug. We also must be honest that even so-called street drugs have their place in medical treatment, have been frequently used in religious traditions, and has helped fuel much of our greatest works of art. But street drugs can be very dangerous and deadly as dangerous substances like fentanyl may be added. This is why we must legalize all drugs. It was not different with alcohol prohibition making alcohol more dangerous due to dangerous additives.
But it also clears all barriers to addiction treatment, something we very desperately and sorely need. It takes a lot of money from gangs and cartels. It keeps people out of jail and gets them the help they need.
Drugs are drugs. Alcohol is no different from pot is no different from amphetamines is no different from MDMA.

 

[JustGeorge]

But how many will stop there? I am not advocating legal abolition, but education for all that it is unwise to start, even in moderation.

I think we need to approach it differently than "its unhealthy" or "it causes problems". Few are moved by this argument, especially the young. I think it would do good to take an honest survey of why people took their first drink, and then tackle the scenarios around that. Take away the triggers, so to speak.

 

[viole]

This to me is an important topic and will eventually be a topic discussed around the world because of the dire consequences this drug of choice inflicts upon the individual, the family, the community, the Nation and on to the entire body of humanity.

I unfortunately live in a Nation that pride themselves on getting drunk, and that mentality is expanding as the world is locked down.

I long for the day when the business of Alcohol is seen for what it has become, a killer of humanity.

So this OP shows my stance, that alcoholic beverages are not needed they are a drug of choice and all recreational drugs need to be Abolished. America tried, so what will it take?

What is your stance, what is your view?

Edit I added this so the intent of this OP is known, as my wording might not have shown that is the case.

"So this OP is all about choice and this OP is to explore why we would choose to abstain, if there was no law, or if we may again consider that a law is needed."

Regards Tony

A killer of humanity? I do not have the impression we are in the verge of extinction, also considering that alcohol exists since the dawn of humanity.. So, at best, it is a killer of a few losers who do not know how to drink it.

Life without a drink would be for me utterly miserable. And I am not ready to renounce to pleasures in life because of some losers into ruining their lives. Which is something they can also achieve by eating too much junk food, anyway.

Ciao

- viole

 

[TransmutingSoul]

These are some cost statistics from Australia from 11 years ago.

Alcohol risk and harm - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

Social impact

Alcohol misuse was estimated to cost Australia around $14 billion in 2010 ($6.0 billion in lost productivity), followed by traffic accidents ($3.7 billion), the criminal justice system ($2.9 billion) and costs to the health system ($1.7 billion) (Manning et al. 2013). However, these costs do not include the negative impacts on others associated with someone else’s drinking (such as violence, poor productivity, disturbing the peace), estimated at $6.8 billion in 2008 (Laslett et al. 2010).

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A killer of humanity? I do not have the impression we are in the verge of extinction, considering that alcohol exists since the dawn of humanity.. So, at best, it is a killer of a few losers who do not know how to drink it.

Life without a drink would be for me utterly miserable. And I am not ready to renounce to pleasures in life because of some losers into ruining their lives. Which is something they can also achieve by eating too much junk food, anyway.

Ciao

- viole

When I talk of humanity in this sense, I am talking about our virtues and morals, not our physical existence.

I am talking about the effects of the abuse of alcohol.

Regards Tony

 

[Secret Chief]

My thought is that it will not take a prohibition, I am more inclined to see it will be what people eventually accept as the right way to live life, how and why they will consider that option has not yet unfolded.

Regards Tony

There is a "statistically significantly" decline in tobacco smoking in the UK. The largest decline is in younger people.

"In 2018, the proportion of current smokers in the UK was 14.7%, which equates to around 7.2 million people, a statistically significant decline of more than 5 percentage points since 2011."

"Across time, the largest reduction in smoking prevalence has been among 18- to 24-year-olds; 25.7% of this group smoked in 2011 compared with 16.8% in 2018."

- Adult smoking habits in the UK - Office for National Statistics

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is a "statistically significantly" decline in tobacco smoking in the UK. The largest decline is in younger people.

- Adult smoking habits in the UK - Office for National Statistics

I think that is where the move will come from, the children and youth.

I have a strong opinion on this as I lived about 5 years with my Grandmother, who stressed upon me not to drink. She has 4 boys who all liked a drink, unfortunately I tried is as friends keep offering and one day you give in to it all.

Then life taught me a few lessons when I chose to drink, many events I can not be proud of, but these days are seen as the norm. I had many a scary passenger ride as a child in a car with a parent very drunk and car hardly staying on the road. They never saw it as an issue either, because they got away with it.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

But this last 18 months I have purchased and used MASSES of 80-100% alcohol, using it several times a day.... for hand cleansing. I have kept a bottle of isopropyl alcohol in both vehicles and at home, a seriously important product for use against Covid. And you would ban its use. My wife uses it all day long at work.

What a waste! See a woman in Delhi says that alcohol will kill Covid-19, not vaccine.

Delhi lockdown: 'Alcohol will work in Covid, not injection', says a woman who came to buy liquor | City - Times of India Videos
'Drinking alcohol kills coronavirus in throat,' says Rajasthan Congress MLA

An alternative is to be part of a religion that prohibits alcohol. Eventually, you and I believe, everyone will have a religious obligation to not drink alcohol, and that is the long range solution.

Why should those who have no problem with normal alcohol intake be interested in religions that prohibit it? Why would atheists who subscribe to no religion worry about such impractical obligations in any religion?

God is aware, not simply of what you do, but of why you do it. This is why it is said: God is most aware, knowing.

That a God exists is your personal opinion which not all people will subscribe to. And such a blanket declaration goes against the forum rules. You need to mention it as a personal opinion.

 

[viole]

When I talk of humanity in this sense, I am talking about our virtues and morals, not our physical existence.

I am talking about the effects of the abuse of alcohol.

Regards Tony

I come from a place where we love to drink. Do you think we have lost our humanity, virtues and morals because of that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Secret Chief]

I think that is where the move will come from, the children and youth.

I have a strong opinion on this as I lived about 5 years with my Grandmother, who stressed upon me not to drink. She has 4 boys who all liked a drink, unfortunately I tried is as friends keep offering and one day you give in to it all.

Then life taught me a few lessons when I chose to drink, many events I can not be proud of, but these days are seen as the norm. I had many a scary passenger ride as a child in a car with a parent very drunk and car hardly staying on the road. They never saw it as an issue either, because they got away with it.

Regards Tony

Younger people in the UK are drinking less alcohol (in terms of giving it up, reducing or never starting). They are the driver for the burgeoning NA beers wines and spirits market; the same as with plant-based diets. Older people are more likely to stick with established habitual behaviours, especially those involving addictive substances. Education indeed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This to me is an important topic and will eventually be a topic discussed around the world because of the dire consequences this drug of choice inflicts upon the individual, the family, the community, the Nation and on to the entire body of humanity.

I unfortunately live in a Nation that pride themselves on getting drunk, and that mentality is expanding as the world is locked down.

I long for the day when the business of Alcohol is seen for what it has become, a killer of humanity.

So this OP shows my stance, that alcoholic beverages are not needed they are a drug of choice and all recreational drugs need to be Abolished. America tried, so what will it take?

What is your stance, what is your view?

Edit I added this so the intent of this OP is known, as my wording might not have shown that is the case.

"So this OP is all about choice and this OP is to explore why we would choose to abstain, if there was no law, or if we may again consider that a law is needed."

Regards Tony

Considering how long mankind has been consuming alcohol .... not likely to go anytime soon.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Considering how long mankind has been consuming alcohol .... not likely to go anytime soon.

Yes agreed, definitely, it appears by the responsea given so far, it will not by our own free will.

But then, I changed, so I can consider that anything is possible.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I come from a place where we love to drink. Do you think we have lost our humanity, virtues and morals because of that?

Ciao

- viole

That is a complex question. Outwardly it can be seen as a no, but that would be relative to our understanding, our nature and our nurture.

This OP is not about the judgement of people, it is about the harm Alcohol causes in our communities and how we may assist by making a choice not to partake.

Can that happen, will it happen?

Regards Tony

 

[viole]

That is a complex question. Outwardly it can be seen as a no, but that would be relative to our understanding, our nature and our nurture.

With that sort of reasoning, you can explain everything. Fact is, we rate very high in quality of living even if alcohol is allowed. Ergo, your claim is an unsubstantiated claim that intends to deprive a pleasure from a majority, because of a minority of irresponsible people.

This OP is not about the judgement of people, it is about the harm Alcohol causes in our communities and how we may assist by making a choice not to partake.

What harm? That does not seem to cause any harm in MY community. So, the problem is not the booze, but who abuses it. You simply cannot reduce the quality of living and liberty for the majority, because of a tiny minority.

According to your argument, we should ban Islam in Europe, too.

Ciao

- viole

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What harm? That does not seem to cause any harm in MY community. So, the problem is not the booze, but who abuses it. You simply cannot reduce the quality of living and liberty for the majority, because of a tiny minority.

With that sort of reasoning, you can explain everything. Fact is, we rate very high in quality of living even if alcohol is allowed. Ergo, your claim is an unsubstantiated claim that intends to deprive a pleasure from a majority, because of a minority of irresponsible people.


What harm? That does not seem to cause any harm in MY community. So, the problem is not the booze, but who abuses it. You simply cannot reduce the quality of living and liberty for the majority, because of a tiny minority.

According to your argument, we should ban Islam in Europe, too.

Ciao

- viole

If you see it that way, all well and good, the OP is not about forcing any change on you.

All the best Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Hah, I used to live with a Muslim from Lebanon who was a heavy drinker, he told me they used to just pretend to be Christian for long enough to purchase their alcohol from the shop then went around in public as Muslims but privately they drank.

There is a black market for alcohol in Saudi Arabia too;
Source: Saudi Arabia drinking: The risks expats take for a tipple

Apparently in 2018 6.83 percent of respondents to a survey in Saudi Arabia said they have 1 to 3 alcoholic drinks per week, with only 77.65% claiming they do not drink alcohol.

Source: Saudi Arabia - average alcohol consumption in 7 days 2017-2018 | Statista

In my opinion.

Very good. Thanks.