about resurrection

[syo]

I am returning to Christianity. I think I understand what resurrection is. When we die, the good souls will join God in everlasting life. When this world ends, God will built a new one and the good people that joined him will inherit the new world. It makes sense. Well, it wasn't that tough...

What do you think resurrection is?

 

[Ellen Brown]

I am returning to Christianity. I think I understand what resurrection is. When we die, the good souls will join God in everlasting life. When this world ends, God will built a new one and the good people that joined him will inherit the new world. It makes sense. Well, it wasn't that tough...

What do you think resurrection is?

Close enough for me.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I am returning to Christianity. I think I understand what resurrection is. When we die, the good souls will join God in everlasting life. When this world ends, God will built a new one and the good people that joined him will inherit the new world. It makes sense. Well, it wasn't that tough...

What do you think resurrection is?

The resurrection has different meanings and it is a matter for each of us to come to an understand ourselves rather than it being a forced belief that some Christians insist on IMHO.

The apostles often used the Body of Christ to symbolise the church. The Church is called 'one body in Christ' in Romans 12:5, 'one body' in 1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 12:27 and Ephesians 4:12 and 'the body' in Hebrews 13:3. There are many more verses.

When Jesus was crucified, His disciples became despondant and the body of Christ (The body of Faithful believers) became lifeless but then came to life again after 3 days when the disciples were filled with hope and understood His purpose. This process reached its climax at Pentecost when of course we have an account of Christ's ascension (Acts of the apostles 1:9-11). I personally don't take this account literally as I find the image of Christ rising through the stratosphere to the physical (as opposed to spiritual) heaven implausible. Rather the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit and empowered to spread His Teachings to far off lands (speaking in tongues).

 

[Deeje]

I am returning to Christianity. I think I understand what resurrection is. When we die, the good souls will join God in everlasting life. When this world ends, God will built a new one and the good people that joined him will inherit the new world. It makes sense. Well, it wasn't that tough...

Not quite as simple as that IMO.

Understanding the resurrection is important because it means different things to different people.

The Bible does not teach that we have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death. This is a Platonic Greek notion that was adopted into both Judaism and later into Christianity. Its appeal is no surprise. The same appeal was made to Eve in the garden of Eden when the serpent told the woman she 'surely would not die'. No one wants to die.....we are designed to live forever but here on earth, not in heaven. God already has a family of spirit sons who live in the spirit realm. He put us here on earth.

So what did God tell Adam about death?
Genesis 2:16-17....."God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” Was there any other explanation about where Adam would go when he died?
Genesis 3:19..."In the sweat of your face you will eat bread* until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Was there a heaven or hell scenario for Adam? An afterlife even mentioned? No...just death.

The Jews were taught that God would resurrect the dead.....but not before Messiah's Kingdom was ruling the earth. They believed that the grave was a place of rest and peace whilst the dead awaited their call back to life. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

Do we have a demonstration of this in the Bible? Yes we do....

John 11:1-14...."Now a man named Lazʹa·rus was sick; he was from Bethʹa·ny, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 This was the Mary who poured perfumed oil on the Lord and wiped his feet dry with her hair; it was her brother Lazʹa·rus who was sick. 3 So his sisters sent a message to him, saying: “Lord, see! the one you have affection for is sick.” 4 But when Jesus heard it, he said: “This sickness is not meant to end in death, but is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.” 5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazʹa·rus. 6 However, when he heard that Lazʹa·rus was sick, he actually remained in the place where he was for two more days. . . . .After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died."

Where was Lazarus? Jesus said he was "sleeping" and that he was going there to awaken him. He called Lazarus out of his tomb. This is the resurrection that the Jews believed in. This is what Jesus did on a few occasions, and said he would do again.....at that time, all the dead would be called from their graves. (John 5:28-29)

What do you think resurrection is?

The Bible speaks of two separate resurrections. The "first" is a resurrection to heaven for those chosen to rule with Christ in his kingdom. (Revelation 20:6) It is a spiritual resurrection of the same kind that Jesus himself experienced. Only a relative few are chosen for that assignment....and they are chosen by God.

Once the "new earth" is established, (a new earthly society under the rule of God's kingdom, not a new planet) wickedness will be eliminated and then the general resurrection of the dead will take place. (2 Peter 3:13)

In the Revelation, John sees Jesus and his bride coming down to bring their rulership to mankind....and what it will mean for us.
Revelation 21:2-4.....
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Every last vestige of this corrupt old world will be gone...never to be seen again. Mankind will never have to suffer as they have done since Adam's defection.

That is how I see the resurrection.

 

[shunyadragon]

I am returning to Christianity. I think I understand what resurrection is. When we die, the good souls will join God in everlasting life. When this world ends, God will built a new one and the good people that joined him will inherit the new world. It makes sense. Well, it wasn't that tough...

What do you think resurrection is?

Your rationalization of where 'good' souls go after death is superficial, not an adequate reason to believe in Christianity. Christianity and older pagan beliefs like the Resurrection and the journey of the soul, are based on ancient worldviews trying to explain things about their limited view of the world they did not understand,and explained these things with ancient mythology. They are out of context, and awkward reasons to believe in the contemporary world, In Christianity this is rooted back to the ancient mythology of Genesis, which again is out of context with a more universal view of the spiritual evolution of humanity.

Any religious view can be logically and rationally justified if you try hard enough. The scriptural description of the Resurrection in the NT can be rationally described from many different perspectives other than a literal physical Resurrection.

 

[Baladas]

I wish you well, though it makes little sense to me personally.
I think that resurrection is best understood as a metaphor for personal growth and change.

 

[Thief]

I am returning to Christianity. I think I understand what resurrection is. When we die, the good souls will join God in everlasting life. When this world ends, God will built a new one and the good people that joined him will inherit the new world. It makes sense. Well, it wasn't that tough...

What do you think resurrection is?

except for the novelty of pain
I see no reason to return to the flesh

God is spirit
the sons of God are spirit

with sufficient exposure to reality in the flesh
and the ongoing share of each other......times billions....

we should be more than preoccupied in the next life

If I spent one year sharing with another.....and then all others....
I would be busy for billions of years

resurrection?....unto life?
yeah
in spirit

 

[WalterTrull]

What do you think resurrection is?

"The sun'll come out, tomorrow..."

 

[syo]

The Bible does not teach that we have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death. This is a Platonic Greek notion that was adopted into both Judaism and later into Christianity. Its appeal is no surprise. The same appeal was made to Eve in the garden of Eden when the serpent told the woman she 'surely would not die'. No one wants to die.....we are designed to live forever but here on earth, not in heaven. God already has a family of spirit sons who live in the spirit realm. He put us here on earth.

My notion about christian resurrection is purely pagan. You are right.

 

[syo]

resurrection?....unto life?
yeah
in spirit

yup!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Wow, I almost overlooked this thread!

According to Jesus’ words at John 6:40, the Resurrection doesn’t occur immediately after death (as most believe). The dead are still in their ‘memorials tombs’ (John 5:28-29), till that day comes.

Notice what Job said....that he would have to wait. Job 14:13-17
But when he will be resurrected, he will get all 20 of his kids back! They’ll be resurrected, too. The first 10 will be able to meet the last 10! And vice-versa,

There is so much confusion on the Biblical side of this subject, though!

Here’s some good reasoning points:
The Resurrection

Further information:
A Tragedy Strikes — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
(Please use the arrows in the upper right, below the search bar, to navigate pages.)

 

[pearl]

When Jesus was crucified, His disciples became despondant and the body of Christ (The body of Faithful believers) became lifeless

Of course they did. The One they had invested their hope in was. by human standards. a failure. Their renewal movement dead and they gather, to fulfill there religious obligation, in fear of suffering the same fate.

This process reached its climax at Pentecost

For me Pentecost was not the climax but the first realization that the crucified lives.

Rather the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit and empowered to spread His Teachings to far off lands (speaking in tongues).

And not for two decades was anything written.

 

[metis]

According to Jesus’ words at John 6:40, the Resurrection doesn’t occur immediately after death (as most believe). The dead are still in their ‘memorials tombs’ (John 5:28-29), till that day comes.

Not in all cases, such as with the one man on the cross next to Jesus, plus whom else that we may not be aware of.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The Bible does not teach that we have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death. This is a Platonic Greek notion that was adopted into both Judaism and later into Christianity.

No, it's a normal notion. No anthropologist that I've heard of has discovered a society where it is normal to believe that the soul dies with the body. Naturally I'm not concerned with the Bible, but I would ask how the Witch of Endor consulted Samuel's spirit (Samuel I.28) if it were not immortal.

The idea that a creator would make a cosmos and fill it with souls, then demolish it and put the souls in a new one seems pointless to me. It would seem early Christians may have felt the same way. Paul speaks of being raised as a "spiritual body".

 

[pearl]

Where was Lazarus? Jesus said he was "sleeping" and that he was going there to awaken him. He called Lazarus out of his tomb. This is the resurrection that the Jews believed in.

This is not resurrection, it is resuscitation. Lazarus would only die again.

 

[Deeje]

No, it's a normal notion. No anthropologist that I've heard of has discovered a society where it is normal to believe that the soul dies with the body.

It's only a "normal notion" because of the first lie told in Eden. The serpent told the woman "you surely will not die"......yet they did. God said nothing about an afterlife in the beginning. Adam wasn't given a "soul" but "became" one when God starting him breathing.

We are designed NOT to die......so death is a difficult concept for humans. It feels as foreign to us now, as it did after the humans were evicted from the garden to grow old and die. If death were natural, then we would be designed to accept it as animals do. Animals are called "souls" too.

The natural desire of continuing to live is very strong.....ask any of us who have reached an older age if we feel old in our heads, or only in our bodies? There is nothing more frustrating that having a young mind trapped in an old body. The only way to make sense of it was to invent ways to keep living....in another form...in another place.

Naturally I'm not concerned with the Bible, but I would ask how the Witch of Endor consulted Samuel's spirit (Samuel I.28) if it were not immortal.

The reason why Israel were forbidden to try to contact the dead (a practice common among the Canaanite inhabitants of the land that God had gifted to his people) was because it wasn't spirits of the dead that they were communing with....it was demonic spirits impersonating them, perpetuating the devil's first lie that humans don't really die.

It wasn't "Samuel" that the spirit medium "brought up". God's living prophets would not speak to this apostate king Saul, so in desperation he tried to speak with the dead prophet who had guided him in the past. He broke God's law by even consulting her. He was the one who kicked out all the mediums at God's command. The man had lost the plot.

The idea that a creator would make a cosmos and fill it with souls, then demolish it and put the souls in a new one seems pointless to me. It would seem early Christians may have felt the same way. Paul speaks of being raised as a "spiritual body".

The idea that you speak of is not from the Bible....far from it in fact. Those ideas come from an apostate church who have also lost the plot in much the same way as king Saul. They lost God's approval centuries ago when they began to introduce false religious doctrines and practices that had no place in Christian worship.

"Souls" are living, breathing creatures in the Bible. They are not something invisible that lives in a human shell. The Bible says that we die.....but our natural instinct is to go on living.....this gives birth to inventing places for "souls" to go. In the Bible, the only place human souls go...is to the grave. A place of unconsciousness and inactivity. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

When the Bible speaks of some being raised in a spiritual body, it is because they have been chosen for a role in the heavenly kingdom with Jesus Christ....the means by which God will re-establish his rulership over mankind as was his original purpose. (Isaiah 55:11) They give up their human body in order to be given a spiritual one so that they can exist in heaven....a place where flesh and blood cannot survive.

 

[Deeje]

This is not resurrection, it is resuscitation. Lazarus would only die again.

Resurrection means "standing up again".....in the case of Lazarus, his sister said that after 4 days his body would be decomposing in the middle eastern heat. Jesus restored his physical body and under the rule of his kingdom, he will restore all those in their graves back to this life. (John 5:28-29) The dead are actually dead....."sleeping" as Jesus said. (John 11-11-14)

All of the resurrections performed in the Bible were back to this life. It was a small demonstration of what Jesus promised to do on a grand scale in "the new earth" (2 Peter 3:13) where he will reign with his assistants, some in heaven and others on earth, restoring what God instituted in the beginning.

Humans are designed for life on earth, not heaven. This is not the life God intended for us, but once the kingdom has accomplished its mission, all humans who pass the final test, will enjoy what God purposed in the beginning......everlasting life in paradise conditions here on earth. (Isaiah 55:11)

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The trouble with your posts, Deeje, is that they assume what you need to prove. If some-one already believed in the literal truth of the Bible, they would hardly be coming to the Seekers' Circle"!

 

[pearl]

Resurrection means "standing up again".....

The OP refers to resurrection within the Christian context, which means rising from death to 'new' life, never to die again. Initially 'resurrection' was the interpretation of the empty tomb, with no attempt to describe it. No where in the NT is there mention of Lazarus looking any different than before, the same body. But to Jesus the Gospels note the risen Jesus was different (in another form, Mk 16:12, somewhat unrecognizable (Luke 24:16, Jn 20:14). The NT authors present a transformation not a revivification. The resurrection does not return Jesus to his former life, as it did Lazarus. To borrow from Pannenberg, "Something happened in which the disciples in these appearances ere confronted with a reality which also in our language cannot be expressed in any other way than by the symbolic and metaphorical expression of the hope beyond death, the resurrection from the dead. Please understand me correctly: Only the name we give to this event is symbolic, metaphorical, but not the reality of the event itself. The latter is so absolutely unique that we have no other name for this than the me3taphorical expression of the apocalyptic expectation. In this sense, the resurrection of Jesus is an historical event, an event that really happened at that time."

 

[tayla]

I think I understand what resurrection is. When we die, the good souls will join God in everlasting life. When this world ends, God will built a new one and the good people that joined him will inherit the new world.

Yes, I think something like that is likely, but not provably true. But Christianity has a lot of baggage you have to accept just to have the view you mention, and Christianity is not the only view having such a view of resurrection.