Abraham failed the test.

[IndigoChild5559]

Someone want to tell me why Jasher is being addressed?

That was my question. We were discussing the Akedah. and Ebionite brought up Jasher.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

We were discussing the Akedah. and Ebionite brought up Jasher.

Well, if he's gonna bring up Jasper, I want to bring up Popeye -- so there!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Convincing explanation Did Abraham pass the test?

Afterwards
- God doesn't speak directly to Abraham again
- the entire family splits apart, no longer living together

Some religious people use Abraham 's story as justification to do things like kill kids - that doing anything God supposedly commands is righteous.

It is not good to kill your kid, or anyone else's kids.

It's not good to follow any supposed command.

If God asked you to kill your kid, would you do it?

If God asked you to kill someone else's kid, would you do it?

Do you view those who kill in gods name as righteous?

Since Abraham was abundantly rewarded (from what I can read in the Bible, anyway), I suggest that God is a very poor teacher, giving a gold star to the failed student.

 

[Ebionite]

What do you mean knowledge? Religious texts are not reliable sources of anything historical or scientific.

The knowledge of the divine that flows from prophetic insight relating to knowledge.

 

[Sargonski]

Since Abraham was abundantly rewarded (from what I can read in the Bible, anyway), I suggest that God is a very poor teacher, giving a gold star to the failed student.

.. but Abe did not fail ? .. how could you say that about our Hero ? .. Abe did what was commanded - until God Commanded no more - which evened the score .

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The knowledge of the divine that flows from prophetic insight relating to knowledge.

Belief yes. Knowledge no. Knowledge is based on evidence, and religious texts are not evidence. If you want to accept text X as your authority on all things spiritual, be my guest. But its really not the same thing as the text imparting knowledge.

 

[Ebionite]

Belief yes. Knowledge no. Knowledge is based on evidence, and religious texts are not evidence.

Expert opinion is a form of evidence, and people can possess expertise relating to religious texts.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Expert opinion is a form of evidence, and people can possess expertise relating to religious texts.

Sorry, but you can only appeal to the experts when they are in agreement.

 

[idea]

Since Abraham was abundantly rewarded (from what I can read in the Bible, anyway), I suggest that God is a very poor teacher, giving a gold star to the failed student.

Was he rewarded? Who is the current largest population on Earth? Whose kids actually filled the planet? Who has the best quality of life?

God must love China - the Chinese kids are like the sands of the sea. God most love India, whose seed cannot be numbered?

 

[Ebionite]

Sorry, but you can only appeal to the experts when they are in agreement.

No, majority opinion applies for judicial experts (judges).

 

[idea]

What do you mean knowledge? Religious texts are not reliable sources of anything historical or scientific.

I find it amuzing when Christians try to tell Jewish people what the Torah "really" is. So strange.

Religious beliefs altogether. It's all war tactics, intimidation rhetoric. Illogical justification why one tribe should rule another.

Nationalism vs. Patriotism.
Seed fill the earth/God's chosen/decended from... genealogy, who beget who - genealogy is the root of racism and wars.

Why can't we find our common humanity, stop believing any race is supreme or chosen, have a melting pot, mixed schools, mixed neighborhoods, study what is real, stop wasting time on mythological bloody accounts of abusive polygamous fathers.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, majority opinion applies for judicial experts (judges).

You need to go back and take logic 101 again. (Assuming you ever took it in the first place) You cannot logically appeal to authority if the authorities do not have a consensus.

 

[Ebionite]

You need to go back and take logic 101 again. (Assuming you ever took it in the first place)

You have no idea what I need to do.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You have no idea what I need to do.

You cannot logically appeal to authority when the authorities have no consensus. Religious authorities are no where even close to a consensus, they are literally all over the place.

 

[Ebionite]

You cannot logically appeal to authority when the authorities have no consensus

Bollocks.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Bollocks.

ROFL you are a riot.

Think about it for a second. Just as you have religious authorities that say there is only one God, you also have religious authorities that say there are many gods. If you think it is rational to appeal to the first, it follows that it is just as rational to appeal to the second. And where does that leave you?

 

[Ebionite]

Think about it for a second (I know that's hard for you).

You're on ignore.

 

[nPeace]

It could help by identifying a motive for any forgery. Without any known differences the obvious motive is to discredit a historical text which is doctrinally unacceptable. There's reason to think that this is the case with Jasher because of the relationship between Jasher, Job, the covenant of the land, and blood sacrifice. The connection between blood and the land goes back to Cain's murder of Abel, which relates to the star of Jacob via Seth.

And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, [and] were in the going down to Bethhoron, that YHWH cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: [they were] more which died with hailstones than [they] whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
Then spake Joshua to YHWH in the day when YHWH delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:11-13

"signs in the heavens, stones as long distance weapons"

And David said unto him, Thy blood [be] upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the YHWH anointed.
And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son:
(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow: behold, [it is] written in the book of Jasher.)
2 Samuel 1:16-18

"death of a messiah, the bow as a long distance weapon"

Reading this article, the motive for the forgeries, seems to be, "it's easier to forge a text that has no support, no witnesses, and gives clear evidence of being spurious.
Why would the book of Jasher cover the creation of man? When was it written?
I don't know about you, but I think trusting this text opens one to every kind of deception, especially since the almighty didn't see fit to have it included in the closed Hebrew Canon.

While it might be interesting to know what the original contained, it certainly is not important for God's people today. W have all we need. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Was he rewarded? Who is the current largest population on Earth? Whose kids actually filled the planet? Who has the best quality of life?

God must love China - the Chinese kids are like the sands of the sea. God most love India, whose seed cannot be numbered?

Are you saying God LIED to Abraham and Sarah in Genesis 17!!??!! Oh, my goodness!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... stop wasting time on mythological bloody accounts of abusive polygamous fathers.

That is an ignorant, arrogant, and abusive perversion of Hebrew scripture in particular and origin myths in general.