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Abraham Father of Many Nations
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
Ultimately, through Christ.
RESOLUTION
Active Member
But not a different God to many nations.
The emphasis is on 'Father'. He has chosen to love everyone, not merely his own children. Anyone can be the father of all nations, but it takes selflessness. This is one of the great things about Abraham.
I don't think it may be denied that it is through Christianity that God of Israel in known throughout the world.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
I have a hard time believing you are serious.
Abraham is the father of two sons, Isaac, to whom the Covenant was granted and Ishmael, who was nevertheless inducted into the covenant which is what circumcision is for, symbolic of.
Ishmael had 12 sons, "Princes" who were blessed by God to be many nations, the Ishmaelites, known today as Arabs, are descended from Abraham.
And to answer your question more simply, yes, it is the same God, there is one God shared by both religions, cultures, descended from the two brothers.
Who would this non existent god hypothetically be? Why is it that you ask such a rookie question?
Aberamentho
Gnosis
Or Judaism or Islam.
Who share the same God, fyi.
Which means it can only be denied that through Paulianity(Xtianity) is the God of Israel known.
Paulianity worships the Messiah and the Messiah is not God, of Israel or anyone but Trinitarians.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
Why are you of the opinion that it can't be denied that it is through Christianity that the God of Israel is known throughout the world?
When 1.5 billion Muslims didn't learn it from Christianity and are not led astray by the worship of the Messiah as God, something the Bible doesn't say and Jesus (pbwh) enthusiastically denies, several times in it.
Judaism has one God as does Islam so if anything Christianity is the only one that is theologically designed to lead you away from the God of Israel and toward their invented "God" the Trinity.
And the God of Israel comes by way of Canaan, Illu or El/Eloah in Hebrew, Illah in Arabic.
Not Christianity or Judaism even but through polytheistic Canaan!!!
Aberamentho
Gnosis
One thing further...
The God of Israel is YHVH-Elohim, as well as a hundred other names, for the same, single God.
The God of Israel is not "the Trinity" which IS the god of Christianity.
So if Christianity leads to the Trinity...
And the Trinity is NOT the God of Israel...
How does Christianity, which leads to Trinity, also or at all, lead to the ONE God of Israel?
Logically speaking how is that supposed to work? Jews don't worship Jesus (pbwh) and neither did Israel. If Jesus is believed to be God then he can't be the God of Israel.
Because they don't worship the Messiah Issa (pbwh) or "Jesus" in the Latin tongues.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
That was not even the question.
It was an OT related question specifically and doesn't involve Christ whatsoever, who doesn't appear until Matthew.
But what you said, as if it was an answer to the actual question the op asked, is unrelated to the question and its easy answer of "yes", "they are the same God" referring to the other nations.
Abraham and his whole family, pbwt, had the same God. At least in the time of Ishmael and even after, in polytheistic Arabia, the God of Abraham or Al-illah/Allah, was still The God.
All Christian prayer is offered to the God of Israel, Christian worship is to the God of Israel, in the name of Jesus.
The doctrine of the Trinity, correctly understood, does not contradict
'God is one'. As far as the spread of Christianity it is through the church founded on Jesus. Jesus himself, a Jew, said, 'do not give what is holy to dogs.'
The doctrine of the Trinity, correctly understood, does not contradict
'God is one'. As far as the spread of Christianity it is through the church founded on Jesus. Jesus himself, a Jew, said, 'do not give what is holy to dogs.'
Susan Maneck
Member
Well, three quarters of the world's population believe in a religion which is clearly part of the Abrahamic family. And given that Abraham had sons through another wife Katurah, that were sent eastward whose to say other religions don't go back to Abraham as well?
Susan Maneck
Member
Wouldn't it be nice if the followers of Abrahamic religions would celebrate what we share in common in a thread such as this, rather than what drives us apart? What does the Qur'an have to say about Christians?
"thou wilt surely find the nearest of them in love to the believers are those who say 'We are Christians'; that, because some of them are priests and monks, and they wax not proud."
neologist
Member
Genesis 17:5 records God's promise to Abraham that he would be father of many nations.
Indeed, through Isaac and Ishmael, Abraham had many descendants.
But Abraham became father to all nations by virtue of the promise made to him after he was willing to sacrifice Isaac. Speaking of Jesus, God told Abraham that ". . . by means of your offspring, all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves because you have listened to my voice." - Genesis 22:18
And Jesus, by his willingness to sacrifice himself, replaced Adam and became the father of us all by adoption. See Romans 8:14.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
That would be a question of viewpoint. God, the Creator, is God of the entire universe; however, does that mean that all worship this Creator God? In no way is the first truth related to worship of this God. Thus, Abraham's God may only be worshiped by a limited number, as may be the case.
In our present world, many believe only in Nihilism, materialism, and think the existence of the so-called spiritual world nothing but imagination; others, worship a multitude of idols, gods, and many give worshipful devotion to money and power.
RESOLUTION
Active Member
There is no proof that Mahoment is the descendant of Ishmael. Ishmael would have to be a Jew and so be part of the covenant of Moses and Following the Torah NOT the koran or allah to be Jewish.
Furthermore God said he was the God of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob and through that channel he would bless all nations not Ishmael or his descendants.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
That is not true at all according to the doctrine of the Trinity itself.
3 equal "forms" of God that are three but one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
To paraphrase roughly the Nicene Creed, which definitely says Jesus is God. God "the Son."
So it is in Jesus (pbwh) name you pray BECAUSE Christianity believes in the Trinity as "God" and despite its nonsensical nature, unbiblical foundation and the denials of equality and independent power with and from God, respectively and enthusiastically.
Which means the doctrine of the Trinity is Roman Catholic or proto-Orthodox, but official as of Nicea.
Not taught by the Bible.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
Yeah, a lot of us do.
And discuss our differences, it is how you build an honest and friendly dialogue and it is so not unheard of. You just don't pay attention to it.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
I will add because I forgot.
The Qur'an says, among other religions of the time, Jewish, Sabaean, Magian and Christian all have equal opportunity to Paradise or Heaven via the same Judgement and religious affiliation is not a factor.
It also criticizes the Trinity and Son of God doctrine and says Jesus (pbwh) was not crucified but it was believed he was.
Honors Mary and mentions her better and more than the New Testament.
Honors Jews as having a special relationship with God.
Honors all Prophets, discusses many.
That is a few things, not all by far.