Adam and eve

[Vee]

Not a debate forum.
For those of you who are christians and believe in a literal interpetation of Adam and Eve...how could Adam and Eve know the serpent was lying? If they had no knowledge of good and evil until they ate the fruit how could they know that? Like they couldn't have known it was wrong to listen to the serpent if they didn't know good and evil?

God specifically told them not to eat the fruit from that tree. It was an issue of obeisance.

 

[WalterTrull]

a literal interpetation of Adam and Eve...

People do that?

 

[VoidCat]

People do that?

Most Christians I know in real life have one. Not all do tho.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Did God tell them that he was their creator and it was obligatory for them to follow what he said? And only what he says is the truth and what others say is untruth and they were not to follow that? I do not see that in Genesis. Something like what he said to Moses at a later time, "I am your Lord God. Thou shalt not have any God before me." Those were clear instructions. Adam and Eve were not clearly instrtucted.

".. and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good." Gen.1:25
If every thing was good till 1:25, where did this evil serpent came from?

How could they not know that he was their creator? He formed them from the ground and breathed life into them.
Well traditional orthodoxy would tell you that it was a snake who Satan had possessed. And even Lucifer was made very good originally, but was cast to the Earth after the war in heaven. Why? I have my theories, but we really aren't told.

 

[Wildswanderer]

they knew nothing. how could they? they just popped into existence, probably

why NOT trust this alleged snake? how do we even know what kind of snake it was? we have no evidence.

as a matter of fact, they didn’t even know it was a snake, probably
neither do we. it could have maybe been a cat, even

God told them not to eat something

they probably didn’t know what he meant by eating

maybe, they weren’t there anyway, probably, or we would find some fossils or something, maybe by now

you must admit, it’s a strange story. too many loose ends

You're making an awful lot of weird assumptions.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Not to be argumentative, but the snake told no lies that I can find in the text.

Of course he lied. He told them they would not die.. they did die like everyone after them.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yet, they didn't die immediately.

So? They died spiritually immediately and later physically.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How could they not know that he was their creator? He formed them from the ground and breathed life into them.

Yeah, how could they know unless they were told? They did not see God creating themselves. It was prior to their birth, they became alive only when God breathed into them. From that time onward they would remember (since they were created as adults, no childhood).

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yeah, how could they know unless they were told? They did not see God creating themselves. It was prior to their birth, they became alive only when God breathed into them. From that time onward they would remember (since they were created as adults, no childhood).

And why would he not tell them? He Apparently walked with them regularly in the evening, don't you think they talked?

 

[RestlessSoul]

You mean seeking knowledge is bad?.

We are born with this thirst for knowledge; it’s a function of our deepest nature. You might say that the desire to know all that there is to know, is the most noble of our desires.

Still, what do the Buddhists say about desire? To desire is to suffer, is it not?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

You're making an awful lot of weird assumptions.

the story leaves a LOT of room to make weird assumptions

thanks for getting my point

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I guess so. I just didnt see how they could be held accountable not knowing good and evil.

Genesis 2:17 tells us what the evil is: the day you eat you die.
So, enemy 'death' was the evil, and living forever on Earth was the good.
If you step on a bug and squash it then you know what death is.
Adam and Eve could also easily see what death was.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Genesis 2:17 tells us what the evil is: the day you eat you die.
So, enemy 'death' was the evil, and living forever on Earth was the good.
If you step on a bug and squash it then you know what death is.
Adam and Eve could also easily see what death was.

i interpret Genesis 1 & 2, that there were no bugs in Eden

i could be wrong, it’s happened before

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.....".. and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good." Gen.1:25
If every thing was good till 1:25, where did this evil serpent came from?

Ezekiel 28:13-17 answers where this evil serpent came from.

 

[blü 2]

This was a big lie:
“Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That was not a lie. It wa an abbreviation of God's warning, "for in the day that you eat of it you shall die" ─ and nothing of the kind happened, just as the snake said.

And Genesis 3:22-23 makes it specific and very clear that Adam and Eve were created mortal, and God intended them to stay that way.

 

[blü 2]

Of course he lied. He told them they would not die.. they did die like everyone after them.

See my reply to ElishaElijah #55, just above this one.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That was not a lie. It wa an abbreviation of God's warning, "for in the day that you eat of it you shall die" ─ and nothing of the kind happened, just as the snake said.

And Genesis 3:22-23 makes it specific and very clear that Adam and Eve were created mortal, and God intended them to stay that way.

An attempt to deceive is considered a lie and they did die.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That was not a lie. It wa an abbreviation of God's warning, "for in the day that you eat of it you shall die" ─ and nothing of the kind happened, just as the snake said.

And Genesis 3:22-23 makes it specific and very clear that Adam and Eve were created mortal, and God intended them to stay that way.

That was not a lie. It wa an abbreviation of God's warning, "for in the day that you eat of it you shall die" ─ and nothing of the kind happened, just as the snake said.

And Genesis 3:22-23 makes it specific and very clear that Adam and Eve were created mortal, and God intended them to stay that way.

And out of the ground the LORD God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” (Genesis 2:9)

God allowed Adam to eat from all the trees except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, warning him that death would result.

After Adam disobeyed God’s command regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God forbade Adam to eat from the tree of life lest he live forever in that state; therefore God guards the tree.

Are you understanding yet?

She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called blessed.” (Proverbs 3:18)

“The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and whoever captures souls is wise.” (Proverbs 11:30)

“Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.” (Proverbs 13:12)

“A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit.” (Proverbs 15:4)

The tree of life was not forbidden fruit until after they sinned.

Those in the new heavens and the new earth will enjoy the fruit of the tree of life for all of eternity.

To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.” (Revelation 2:7b)


“On either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.” (Revelation 22:2)



“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.” (Revelation 22:14)

 

[blü 2]

And out of the ground the LORD God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” (Genesis 2:9)

God allowed Adam to eat from all the trees except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, warning him that death would result.

After Adam disobeyed God’s command regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God forbade Adam to eat from the tree of life lest he live forever in that state; therefore God guards the tree.

Are you understanding yet?

I'm understanding that NOWHERE does it say God intended Adam to live forever but SPECIFICALLY it says God kicked Adam out of Eden TO STOP HIM LIVING FOREVER.

Seems unambiguous to me.

Of course, if one is trying to make it fit with the Christian story, which isn't based on Genesis but on a line in Paul, which reflects an idea that originated midrashwise among the Jews of Alexandria late in the second century BCE, then one has to invent things and pretend they're in the Garden story. I do my best to avoid doing that.

And I take careful note that at the time Eve ate the fruit, she had no knowledge of good and evil and therefore was incapable of forming any intention to do wrong and was therefore incapable of sin. And exactly the same is true of Adam. Only after they'd eaten the fruit could they have sinned.

And of course I point out that the words 'sin', 'original sin', 'the fall of man', 'death entering the world', 'spiritual death', or any need for a redeemer, are found NOWHERE in the story. That's not what the story is about.

The most probable point of the Garden story, it seems to me, is to provide a bridge from the story of the creation of man to the beginning of Hebrew folk history, by devising an account of the growth of man from infancy (innocence) to adolescence (sexual awareness, knowledge) to leaving home and fending for oneself. However, that's only tangentially relevant to the point that in the story the snake tells no lies.

(Many Christians like to identify the snake with Satan, but of course nothing like that is in the story either.)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Still, what do the Buddhists say about desire? To desire is to suffer, is it not?

Buddhists say there are two kinds of desires. Kusal and Akusal (Noble and the ones that are not).

And why would he not tell them? He Apparently walked with them regularly in the evening, don't you think they talked?

He talked to Adam but did not talk to Eve. He should have instructed Eve as well. That is why Eve did not know that she was not supposed to eat of the tree of knowledge. God never does anything right. Who created the Satan or the serpent?

Ezekiel 28:13-17 answers where this evil serpent came from.

How did iniquity come in man? Was he not supposed to be perfect?

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Design problem. Bad engineering.