After I Die?

[Segev Moran]

No it doesn't - because the subject was not dead!

Define "death"?
The scientific definition of death is changing based on our understanding of the human body.
Today, we can "cheat" death a little longer. this means we are able to allow the body be considered dead, but mechanically sustain it.
500 years ago, "death" was defined much earlier from what we call "death" today.
The trend shows there is a lot happening when your physical body is completely not functioning without artificial aid.

But I am not clueless. The state of current research into the brain and mind gives us clues that suggest the mind is a function of the physical brain.

That is not true.
The more advanced studies clearly shows that a human has the ability to alter the brain network.
This means you can literally shape the physical shape of your neural network.
Neuroplasticity shows we are able to think our brain into form.

We can deliberately and specifically manipulate the mind by physically, chemically or electrically manipulating the brain.

How do you do that without drugs?

That is a demonstrable fact.

Agreed. Even without external aids.

If the mind was independent of the physical brain, this would not be possible.

Why not? and who claimed the mind is independent? It claimed a person collects information from the environment regardless of the brain.
If this is true, this means that there is something deeper than the current scientific knowledge we have.
I think its worth the study to find out as much as we can.

 

[Segev Moran]

All those processes involve physical activity within the brain. It is the electro-chemical in the brain activity that produces change, not the "thoughts" that result from that activity.
Another analogy.
Exercise will build muscle, but the idea of exercise will not.

Obviously.
Its not a mental property.
The current studies clearly show, that the physical depends on the "mind" and not the other way around.
A trauma can cause physical changes that are so powerful, they affect your "mind".
It is a hard process to "un-traumatize" your brain. it takes a lot of mental reprogramming, that leads to physical alteration of the brain.
There are clear evidence that most illnesses, can be prevented by mental changes rather than physical.
At times, people think its a physical thing and abuse their body, sometimes to the point that a physical change is also urgently required.

 

[KWED]

Define "death"?

When all bodily function has ceased and there is no possibility of resuscitation.

Today, we can "cheat" death a little longer. this means we are able to allow the body be considered dead, but mechanically sustain it.

In other words, we can prevent people from dying.

That is not true.

Well, it's what the evidence suggests. However, it is not my specialist field so feel free to cite any studies that show the mind is independent of the brain.

The more advanced studies clearly shows that a human has the ability to alter the brain network.
This means you can literally shape the physical shape of your neural network.
Neuroplasticity shows we are able to think our brain into form.

But as I pointed out, it is the physical processes within the brain that cause this, not some etherial force that exists independent of the brain.

How do you do that without drugs?

Surgery and electro-shock can can alter the mind as well as drugs. And this suggests that the mind is dependent on the physical brain.

Why not? and who claimed the mind is independent?

Everyone whop claims we have a "soul" that continues after the body is dead.

It claimed a person collects information from the environment regardless of the brain.

And how does it show this? How would we test a non-brain mind?

I think its worth the study to find out as much as we can.

Indeed, but areas where knowledge is lacking is not an excuse to make fantastical claims.

 

[KWED]

The current studies clearly show, that the physical depends on the "mind" and not the other way around.

I think you may have misunderstood the studies, because without the brain, there is no mind.

A trauma can cause physical changes that are so powerful, they affect your "mind".

Indeed. Which shows that the mind is a product of the brain.

There are clear evidence that most illnesses, can be prevented by mental changes rather than physical.

Really?

At times, people think its a physical thing and abuse their body, sometimes to the point that a physical change is also urgently required.

 

[Segev Moran]

I think you may have misunderstood the studies, because without the brain, there is no mind.

According to this, there are many scientific purviews that are redundant.
Psychology for example.

Indeed. Which shows that the mind is a product of the brain.

No. Its shows the "mind" is affected by the brain, not a product of it.

Really?

Excluding disease caused by external factors (like viruses or germs or physical traumas), yes. It is quite obvious and known.
Even with external factors, it is knows that mental health and "mind set" can greatly increase your body's ability to defend it self.

 

[Segev Moran]

When all bodily function has ceased and there is no possibility of resuscitation.

This definition is relative.
What do you define as bodily function? and how do you measure them?

In other words, we can prevent people from dying.

No we can't. We can recover the body from a status we once thought was considered dead.

Well, it's what the evidence suggests. However, it is not my specialist field so feel free to cite any studies that show the mind is independent of the brain.

No it is not.
It suggest there is a relation between the physical brain and the "mind".
We have almost no knowledge of consciousness, let alone self awareness.
Until not far ago, we thought animals don't have consciousness.
The fact is there are many scientific studies trying to figure out what you claim is known.
Weird.

But as I pointed out, it is the physical processes within the brain that cause this, not some etherial force that exists independent of the brain.

What are you basing this assumption on?
It seems like you argue things that far more educated people than you and I are claiming.

Surgery and electro-shock can can alter the mind as well as drugs. And this suggests that the mind is dependent on the physical brain.

Surgery and electro-shocks don't cure issues. They cure symptoms.
Removing someone's liver doesn't mean we cured him, rather removed the damaged part.
Same goes for heart surgeries, brain surgeries, cancer removal and almost any other medical treatment.

Everyone whop claims we have a "soul" that continues after the body is dead.

Again, not true.
And how does the "soul" idea has got anything to do with this issue?

And how does it show this? How would we test a non-brain mind?

Measure no brain activity
Collect information that a patient remembers even after two hours of no brain activity.
If there is a percentage of correct information, this means that there is more besides brain activity (or at least in the non-quantum physical realm).

Indeed, but areas where knowledge is lacking is not an excuse to make fantastical claims.

The claim was: "There might be something more complex to our "minds" other than a product of the physical brain".
I don't see how it is something that cannot be possible especially with what we know about physics.

 

[Kooky]

So far, nobody came back to complain, so death has to be pretty decent at least.

 

[Kooky]

There is a no proof either way.

Other than our material, physical death, you mean.