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After I Die?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus said to the repentant thief on the cross next to him "Today you'll be with me in paradise" which indicates heaven is not on this earth.
Jesus also said "..flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)
which indicates we become purely spiritual beings "like the angels" in a purely spiritual heaven, and that the material earth is gone forever.
As for people in heaven making heaven yukky, that sort of people won't be allowed in..:)

Right, yukky people will Not be in Heaven because the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' according to Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

In Scripture I find No one was resurrected before Jesus - 1 Corinthians 15:20
The thief died before Jesus died. Jesus is first fruit of the dead.
Christ was first according to 1 Corinthians 15:23.

I find that Jesus did Not go to Heaven the day he did - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
So, Jesus was making a promise to the repentant thief on the day they died.
In other words, it was truly I tell you today,(comma) you will be (future tense) with me in paradise. Also, Jesus did Not say Heaven at Luke 23:43.
So, a comma (,) should be after the word today.

Please notice 1 Corinthians 15:1 was Not addressed to that thief but to Jesus' spiritual ' brothers '. Chapter 15 is devoted to Jesus' brothers who are the saints of holy ones of Daniel 7:18. They will have spirit bodies like the angels.
Heaven is for Jesus' baptised brothers, The thief was Not baptised so he will have a future resurrection on a beautified paradisical Earth. Paradise like Eden originally was on Earth.
Jesus promised humble meek people 'Earth' at Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
A future earthly resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Why not focus on the homeless, the debt, pollution, global warming, wars, etc?
I find the ^ above ^ problems are too BIG to handle.
I find Jesus did give us the model example about the neighborly good Samaritan.
We are to widen out, broaden out in showing practical love when we find another in distress.
In other words, Jesus was teaching about having focus on a one-on-one basis.
Sure, Jesus healed and fed people but his main focus of Luke 4:43 was to tell others about the good news of God's Kingdom government being the real solution - Daniel 2:44.
This is why Jesus gave the instruction found at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 to also tell others about the good news of God's kingdom on a global international scale just as it is being done today.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The answer to what happens to each human being when they passing away can not be answered, because it probably will be different for each one of us :)
Yes, I find it also was different for Jesus because Jesus taught at death it's: Sleep.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep in death:
(John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5)
What will be different I find is that the Bible teaches two (2) resurrections:
* Some people to have a first or earlier resurrection as found at Revelation 20:6.
* The majority of people to have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection on Earth.
Humble meek people to inherit the Earth as Jesus' promised.
 

Dropship

Member
Not a Baptist guess, but a Bible non-guess according to Jesus at Matthew 28:19-20.
Thus, disciple making includes water baptism.

Ah, but simply being baptised in water doesn't necessarily make anybody holy.
Better to be baptised in the holy spirit..:)
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I don't remember the percentage exactly, but many reported no recollection at all.
30-40% reported the major events that were done to them and up to 5% reported an exact and detailed description of the procedures, the staff, the conversations, etc.
Many reported a calm feeling and a sense of being outside their physical body.

Although it too little to determine what happens when our body is terminated, I find it quite exciting that it is even an option.
Yes, because there are too many factors that influence that, including the confirmation bias of doctors hoping for a life after death, the timing, the recollection of the doctors, easy to perform cold reading techniques, too. Usually, all those phenomena disappear when you use real scientific inquiry. And with that, I mean that not only scientists should look at that (scientists are easily fooled by claims of the paranormal, remember Uri Geller?), but also professional magicians, who really are the best in class to detect naturalistic origins of any such claim.

And if that really we're an option, it would beg the question: what's the use of our brain? That complicated mess between our ears that can decay, be subject to hormonal disturbances, get weird after a few drinks, etc. Looks completely redundant.

Ciao

- viole
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Out of topic... why do you always add "Ciao" in your posts? I see you use that almost always.
I Imagine you saying that as a type of a "Mic Drop", lol. Its nice :)
"Ciao" means "Bye" in North Europe. In Italy, which is the true origin of the word, it means also "Hello".

Ciao

- viole
 

FollowerofJesus

New Member
If you believe in Jesus, and ask him for salvation, and live like a true Christian would, theyou go to heaven, if you deny him, you go to Hell. Simple as that. And theres no doubt, Hell is real.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Ah, but simply being baptised in water doesn't necessarily make anybody holy. Better to be baptised in the holy spirit..:)
At water baptism I find a person can receive God's spirit. Jesus did.
Right, simply being baptised doesn't necessarily make anybody holy (holy as mentioned at Daniel 7:18)
If it did then there would be No reason for Jesus to say we need to endure to the end at Matthew 24:13.
Peter simply says at 1st Peter 3:21 that baptism does Not remove the filth of the flesh, but to have a good or clean conscience towards God - then notice -> it is through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
Yes, because there are too many factors that influence that, including the confirmation bias of doctors hoping for a life after death, the timing, the recollection of the doctors, easy to perform cold reading techniques, too.
Agreed. that's why I wish some more advanced studies will be performed. Its a really interesting idea.
Usually, all those phenomena disappear when you use real scientific inquiry.
Agreed.
But many crazy ideas we thought are impossible turned out to be much crazier than we imagined.
And with that, I mean that not only scientists should look at that (scientists are easily fooled by claims of the paranormal, remember Uri Geller?), but also professional magicians, who really are the best in class to detect naturalistic origins of any such claim.
I would also suggest statistics experts, expert interrogators and many others
And if that really we're an option, it would beg the question: what's the use of our brain? That complicated mess between our ears that can decay, be subject to hormonal disturbances, get weird after a few drinks, etc. Looks completely redundant.
You can see the brain as a physical manifestation of our mind.
Our minds can manipulate our neural network, not only our neural network manipulates our mind. this is today known in medical, psychological and many other purviews of science.
There are huge impacts on our physical mind caused by events in our life, these can generate a light to critical "bugs" in our system. most of them, we can "debug" on our own.

So at the very least, we are a self programing program. imo, being a self programming program that is part of a bigger self programming program, doesn't sound that far fetched.
You didn't answer that part ;)
Segev
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
"Ciao" means "Bye" in North Europe. In Italy, which is the true origin of the word, it means also "Hello".

Ciao

- viole
Lol, disregard me saying "You didn't answer that" in my previous post :)
Yeah, why do you put "Hello" every time? At the end that is...
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
If you believe in Jesus, and ask him for salvation, and live like a true Christian would, then you go to heaven, if you deny him, you go to Hell. Simple as that. And there's no doubt, Hell is real.
I find only 'biblical hell' is real, the hellfire religious-myth teaching taught as being Scripture is Not real.
Jesus did Not deny Him (God) yet the day righteous Jesus died Jesus went to hell according to Luke at Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
No where does it say Adam went to any hell but at his death Adam simply ' returned ' to the dust at Genesis 3:19.
There was No post-mortem penalty in the return to dust, and No double jeopardy for deliberate sinner Adam.

So, real biblical hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
In other words, while dead Jesus was in hell he was in a sleep-like unconscious state.
That is why Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Lol, disregard me saying "You didn't answer that" in my previous post :)
Yeah, why do you put "Hello" every time? At the end that is...
Because I am not Italian, but rather North European. And, as I said, even if I were Italian, "ciao" also means "bye" there.

Ciao

- viole
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
ou can see the brain as a physical manifestation of our mind.
Our minds can manipulate our neural network, not only our neural network manipulates our mind. this is today known in medical, psychological and many other purviews of science.
There are huge impacts on our physical mind caused by events in our life, these can generate a light to critical "bugs" in our system. most of them, we can "debug" on our own.
I would say it is exactly the contrary: our mind is a physical manifestation of our brain. The mind stays to the brain, as combustion power stays to a car engine. Stop the engine, and there will be no spiritual combustion abandoning the car and keep burning.

And again, your theory does not explain why peoples' minds change so drastically when you have things like: neural degeneracy, hormones storms, too much alcohol, drugs, too little blood, cancers, etc. And why it suddenly recovers all powers when the shut-down is complete. While my view is much simpler: all those effects are expected when engines get broken, or you put bad gas in it.

Yours is not parsimonious because, again, makes the brain totally redundant. Why do we need that, if we are able to be conscious, understand and remember things doctor said when it was totally turned off? And where do we store the information? Did those guys store the information they witnessed somewhere in the spiritual cloud, or in their turned off brain? And what about that mind floating around the hospital, where did it get the information it needs to understand the doctors (e.g. the language)? From the turned off brain? If not, do we also store our memories in the spiritual cloud, to be later retrieved when we shut down?

As you see, one explanation is much simpler than the other, and should therefore be preferred. The fact that is not preferred by so many people is, in my opinion, just a sign that people are literally desperate to find an alternative to their unavoidable eternal oblivion, and are ready to believe everything, no matter how absurd it is (and that include gods) that might avoid that fate.

Hope springs eternal.

Ciao

- viole
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
I would say it is exactly the contrary: our mind is a physical manifestation of our brain. The mind stays to the brain, as combustion power stays to a car engine. Stop the engine, and there will be no spiritual combustion abandoning the car and keep burning.
Yet the car and the engine don't change one another, they simply act togather.
And again, your theory
Its not a theory, just an idea.
does not explain why peoples' minds change so drastically when you have things like: neural degeneracy, hormones storms, too much alcohol, drugs, too little blood, cancers, etc.
This is what i meant when I wrote a "bug".
A "bug" means, there is a fault function in the brain that causes unwanted or uncontrolled result.
When you use drugs for example, it affects the way your brain experience reality.
Same goes for alcohol.
When the issue is with a disease or a physical injury, the issue is the same. it depends what part of your brain is hurt. major areas of your brain can be removed and you will still have your personality kept.
And why it suddenly recovers all powers when the shut-down is complete.
As the body has a "self repair" mechanism.
When it comes to the brain, at times, the mind alters or "forgets" parts of reality in order to prevent an overwhelming impact.
While my view is much simpler: all those effects are expected when engines get broken, or you put bad gas in it.
This is not how our body-brain-mind relations work.
Yours is not parsimonious because, again, makes the brain totally redundant.
How so?
The effect is two way. The brain affects your mind and your mind affects your brain.
Why do we need that, if we are able to be conscious, understand and remember things doctor said when it was totally turned off?
As we have no way to "activate" our body without it.
Your mind is affected by the physical state of your brain as the brain is affected by the state of your mind.
And where do we store the information?
I wish I knew :)
Did those guys store the information they witnessed somewhere in the spiritual cloud, or in their turned off brain?
Once again, great question that requires far more advanced technology and studies.
But information is not limited to brains.
We have information in every cell of our body.
We have information in the structure of our galaxy and universe.
Each particle is information.
And what about that mind floating around the hospital, where did it get the information it needs to understand the doctors (e.g. the language)?
Good question.
It seems this issue is of interest to you as it is to me :)
I promise I will inform you of any updates in the future in that topic :)
From the turned off brain? If not, do we also store our memories in the spiritual cloud, to be later retrieved when we shut down?
Imagine a radio.
Someone who knows nothing about light, can easily ask the same question of "Where does this sound comes from?"
He might think the only source of sound in the radio itself, yet we know it comes from a whole different place.
As you see, one explanation is much simpler than the other, and should therefore be preferred.
Not really.
You are misinterpreting the phrase the "simple answer is probably the correct one".
God is a very simple explanation to most scientific issues, yet we know better ;)
The fact that is not preferred by so many people is, in my opinion, just a sign that people are literally desperate to find an alternative to their unavoidable eternal oblivion, and are ready to believe everything, no matter how absurd it is (and that include gods) that might avoid that fate.
You took it to a far more complex discussion.
I don't know if there is anything after death. I guess at some point, we will all know the answer to that ;)
Hope springs eternal.

Ciao

- viole
Goodbye :)
Segev.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Yet the car and the engine don't change one another, they simply act togather.
And? That still makes the power discharged by the engine disappears when fuel runs out.

Its not a theory, just an idea.
As old as the world. Which should be abandoned now considering what we know about brains and minds.

This is what i meant when I wrote a "bug".
A "bug" means, there is a fault function in the brain that causes unwanted or uncontrolled result.
When you use drugs for example, it affects the way your brain experience reality.
Same goes for alcohol.
When the issue is with a disease or a physical injury, the issue is the same. it depends what part of your brain is hurt. major areas of your brain can be removed

But how do bugs influence a program that does not need the brain to work? Why does those souls that experience your NDEs need the brain at all? Especially when it is so easily hackable?

As the body has a "self repair" mechanism.
When it comes to the brain, at times, the mind alters or "forgets" parts of reality in order to prevent an overwhelming impact.
What?

I wish I knew :)
Well, I know. All neurobiologists know. Only people who believe in a soul separated from the body, don't. What does it tell you?

Once again, great question that requires far more advanced technology and studies.
But information is not limited to brains.
We have information in every cell of our body.
We have information in the structure of our galaxy and universe.
Each particle is information.
No it does not. Everyone knows where information is stored. In the same place that can go out of whack for people with dementia.
Good question.
It seems this issue is of interest to you as it is to me :)
I promise I will inform you of any updates in the future in that topic :)
My only interest is in dismissing it, since it has as many more holes than the cheese we eat where I live. And what you call good/great questions are just natural questions.

Imagine a radio.
Someone who knows nothing about light, can easily ask the same question of "Where does this sound comes from?"
He might think the only source of sound in the radio itself, yet we know it comes from a whole different place.

Well, the problem is, of course, that the radio will not mediate anything when it is turned off. So, how did your patients remember things without that radio? And if they did, what is the purpose of the radio, to start with?

Not really.
You are misinterpreting the phrase the "simple answer is probably the correct one".
God is a very simple explanation to most scientific issues, yet we know better ;)
God is no answer to any scientific issue because science, by definition, assumes naturalism. Therefore, your analogy here fails.

ou took it to a far more complex discussion.
I don't know if there is anything after death. I guess at some point, we will all know the answer to that ;)

What is so complex about it? I personally find it as easy as dismissing homeopathy, and other hooks pokus beliefs based on not much more that hearsay and confirmation bias.
And no, we will never know the answer to that. For we will just vanish into oblivion. For ever.

Ciao

- viole
 
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Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
ro
And? That still makes the power discharged by the engine disappears when fuel runs out.
I am not sure I understand the analogy.
The engine and the fuel are separate entities, each exists on its own. If this is what you mean by mind and brain, we are in agreement.
As old as the world. Which should be abandoned now considering what we know about brains and minds.
Yet scientists much more educated than you and I don't dismiss it as easily as you do :)
But how do bugs influence a program that does not need the brain to work? Why does those souls that experience your NDEs need the brain at all? Especially when it is so easily hackable?
The brain is a connection to the physical body.
The brain and mind are intertwined.
If the mind was only a part of the brain, you would not be able to physically change the using your mind.
Trauma as example.
It causes a very strong neural link that affects your thoughts and other parts of the brain.
At times, the trauma is so strong, you completely "forget" it.
Well, I know. All neurobiologists know. Only people who believe in a soul separated from the body, don't. What does it tell you?
Sounds like you solved the concept of consciousness.
You can get a Nobel prize for that :)
Many neuroscientist study consciousness and mind. If you know better than them, you should come forward with it and educate them.
I don't believe in a "soul" per-say, and regardless that has got nothing to do with the mind.
"Soul" is a whole different concept.
No it does not. Everyone knows where information is stored. In the same place that can go out of whack for people with dementia.
Wouldn't you say DNA is information?
My only interest is in dismissing it, since it has as many more holes than the cheese we eat where I live.
Same goes for every thesis ever made.
Imagine what would happen if every idea that has holes in it would be regarded as not worth studying.
And what you call good/great questions are just natural questions.
Or not, regardless, I think these are great questions.
Well, the problem is, of course, that the radio will not mediate anything when it is turned off.
That is no true. It simply doesn't convert it into sound.
So, how did your patients remember things without that radio?
They are not my patients.
And that exactly what the study is trying to figure out.
And if they did, what is the purpose of the radio, to start with?
Conversion.
God is no answer to any scientific issue because science, by definition, assumes naturalism. Therefore, your analogy here fails.
Ok. So earth is flat.
What is so complex about it?
Its a broad subject
I personally find it as easy as dismissing homeopathy, and other hooks pokus beliefs based on not much more that hearsay and confirmation bias.
I Mostly agree with you. But the fact you find something simple, doesn't make it so :)
And no, we will never know the answer to that. For we will just vanish into oblivion. For ever.
Or not ;)
Ciao

- viole
Goodbye, Segev.[/QUOTE]
 

Skeezy

Member
Forgive me for not citing references but...
In the bible the afterlife is mentioned many times. The spirit returns to the father because it is his.

The book says when we die we go to Sheol. A place made of 3 compartments. The father is with the righteous in one and the other two the "gnashing of teeth" can be heard.

Essentially everyone is awaiting judgement and the one compartment is at peace and the others are not. When judgement occurs all are judged past and present (the fallen angels are last). When judgement begins the anti-christ and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire. Then sheol itself is thrown into the lake of fire because it is no longer needed.

Those in the book of life return as perfect immortal beings.

This is what I've gathered is what happens so far
 
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