Afterlife places

[Thief]

I believe the dead can move around on the astral plane and even visit the physical plane. However they might not have developed the spiritual level to appreciate the higher non-physical planes. That would be like Homer Simpson going to a theoretical physics lecture; no point in going there.

reminds me of the episode where Homer found his way into 3d reality

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Why believe in an afterlife at all?

You can explain the death of the body from the laws of thermodynamics, but they don't apply to the mind or soul. And if you believe you don't have a mind, I can do nothing but sympathise.

 

[LuisDantas]

You can explain the death of the body from the laws of thermodynamics, but they don't apply to the mind or soul. And if you believe you don't have a mind, I can do nothing but sympathise.

I believe the mind to depend on a physical substract (e.g. a brain) to survive. Don't you?

As for souls, they seem to be even by definition undemonstrable.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I find it absurd that when people die, they have to go to some specific afterlife place based on their performance on this world.

I don't believe there is anything "after life". Death is the end of all processing of sensory inputs to the body. And that's it.

Within the universe we exist within, and the only one we are able to know exists, there is no process by which a given object/entity/thing maintains activities indefinitely with no energies needing input. That simply does not happen - it's the old "perpetual motion" conundrum. Obviously, I'm discounting physical law based "things" such as gravity and other base physical mechanics - among which your "consciousness" or "soul" is definitely not a member.

And to "dream up" any other universe where such a thing as an "eternal soul" would be possible by the physical laws governing that universe... well... it's just that, isn't it? Make-believe?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You can explain the death of the body from the laws of thermodynamics, but they don't apply to the mind or soul. And if you believe you don't have a mind, I can do nothing but sympathise.

The "mind" is based in physical matter. Without that physical matter, there is no "mind" (and, I would contend, no "soul" either - see my post just previous to this one about no object actively participating in the universe without energies needing input).

And there is proof that the "mind" is rooted in physical stuffs. Brain damage. Brain damage has been known to permanently alter a person's "mind" - to the point that they are no longer what they were in that sense. Physical damage equates to "mind" damage. And therefore physical destruction equates to "mind" destruction.

 

[Fool]

Why should life actions reflect the dead? Afterlife could be a good way to learn from life. Instead some religions are trying to punish or reward the dead, like we do when training animals.

energy cannot be created, or destroyed, it simply transforms into something otherwise.

you reap what you sow, quantum no-hiding theorem. confusion begets confusion. understanding begets understanding.

 

[confused453]

I don't believe there is anything "after life". Death is the end of all processing of sensory inputs to the body. And that's it.

Within the universe we exist within, and the only one we are able to know exists, there is no process by which a given object/entity/thing maintains activities indefinitely with no energies needing input. That simply does not happen - it's the old "perpetual motion" conundrum. Obviously, I'm discounting physical law based "things" such as gravity and other base physical mechanics - among which your "consciousness" or "soul" is definitely not a member.

And to "dream up" any other universe where such a thing as an "eternal soul" would be possible by the physical laws governing that universe... well... it's just that, isn't it? Make-believe?

Or we live in virtual reality.

 

[LuisDantas]

Not convinced, not even close. Karma is just an excuse for ignoring issues in a society.

When well understood, it is anything but.

I will readily grant however that it is very often mistaught and misunderstood, so much so that many people use the word (but not the actual meaning) as an excuse to avoid their duties.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Karma is just an excuse for ignoring issues in a society.

I contest that. The idea of Karma and reincarnation was adopted to solve issues in the society, so that the people will not cross the line of rules of society.. Every religion does that, the monotheists very harshly (eternal).

 

[Thief]

I believe the mind to depend on a physical substract (e.g. a brain) to survive. Don't you?

As for souls, they seem to be even by definition undemonstrable.

the lack of definition is the desired effect
each soul will be unique

 

[Twilight Hue]

I find it absurd that when people die, they have to go to some specific afterlife place based on their performance on this world. Why can't they go wherever they want to go?? What's the worst can they do, kill more dead people? It just doesn't make sense.

Welcome to the afterlife. Where you get to think of the afterlife.

 

[InquisitiveScholar]

So Confused453,
The reason why every religion in the world says something about the afterlife is because humans are fleeting creatures, and in our short bursts of life, we seek to find meaning in a truly meaningless world. Be that in religion, or in daily life. Our ultimate goal as mortal creatures is to shed the mortal coil, in any way possible. For some that is being immortalized in songs and books, like the great Achilles. For many, that is the promise that, if they are a good human in life, they will be rewarded in death. Some even still seek to eliminate the mortal coil in this world, an example of this is the endless research by people all across the world, as far back as any can remember, to find the "Elixir of Life". Humans are afraid of the unknown, and we, being meaning making machines, hate not knowing. In response to the unknown, we create realities that are completely false, but give us a sense of security about the unknown. Do I honestly believe that when I die I will be taken to some paradise to live for all eternity? No, not really, but the afterlife does not concern me too much, I am focused in the here and now. Perhaps when I am older, and closer to deaths door will it become more important to me, but for now I am satisfied being a good man on this world, and helping others who need it.

 

[Quintessence]

I find it absurd that when people die, they have to go to some specific afterlife place based on their performance on this world.

I'm not sure where you got this idea from. This is not a universally accepted teaching, much less a universally accepted fact. Was there some particular afterlife vision from a specific religious tradition that you had in mind?

Why can't they go wherever they want to go?? What's the worst can they do, kill more dead people? It just doesn't make sense.

Oh my. There are far, far worse things than a biological organism dying.

At any rate, if this story doesn't make sense to you, don't tell it and don't listen to it. There are plenty of others out there. I don't tell or listen to this story you talk about either.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I believe the mind to depend on a physical substract (e.g. a brain) to survive. Don't you? As for souls, they seem to be even by definition undemonstrable.

You may believe it but you can't prove it. The only people who believe it are those who have been "got at" by philosophical speculation: you don't find materialists in the wild, as it were. And the philosophical arguments against our natural beliefs are generally weak.

 

[LuisDantas]

You may believe it but you can't prove it.

Well, of course. There are a great many things that are true yet I can't prove.

I take it that you propose that we should assume that minds survive the death of the mind somehow? Or at least attempt to force such a doubt on ourselves somehow?

Would there be a point to that?

The only people who believe it are those who have been "got at" by philosophical speculation: you don't find materialists in the wild, as it were. And the philosophical arguments against our natural beliefs are generally weak.

You are bold, that much I will give you. Not at all convincing, but bold nonetheless.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You may believe it but you can't prove it.

Meanwhile you completely ignored my proof of the same (See post #25 in this thread). That is, assuming you were referring to this when you said LuisDantas "can't prove it":

I believe the mind to depend on a physical substract (e.g. a brain) to survive.

 

[Maponos]

Because your actions in life have consequences.

 

[confused453]

Because your actions in life have consequences.

Imagine Hitler losing his memory in an accident, completely losing his evil identity, and becoming the world's greatest piece maker, and generally a good person. What kind of afterlife would that get him according to your religion?

 

[Ben Avraham]

I find it absurd that when people die, they have to go to some specific afterlife place based on their performance on this world. Why can't they go wherever they want to go?? What's the worst can they do, kill more dead people? It just doesn't make sense.

Of course, it does not make sense! The only place they have to be taken to because he or she no longer has the Freewill to choose where to go is Sheol aka the grave. And, once there, no one will ever return because, Sheol is our eternal home; the only thing eternal about man. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.)

 

[Ben Avraham]

Because your actions in life have consequences.

True but, in death all our actions are neutralized whether they were good or evil actions. Why! Because HaShem is the God of the living, not of the dead. But why! Because in death, none can praise the Lord or transgress the Law.