Afterlife places

[Maponos]

Imagine Hitler losing his memory in an accident, completely losing his evil identity, and becoming the world's greatest piece maker, and generally a good person. What kind of afterlife would that get him according to your religion?

That's awfully convenient, but he'd be sent to Tartarus most likely.

 

[Fool]

True but, in death all our actions are neutralized whether they were good or evil actions. Why! Because HaShem is the God of the living, not of the dead. But why! Because in death, none can praise the Lord or transgress the Law.

no, the confusion that the mind was under is still present. healing is necessary for the mind to become healthy again vs disturbed. you're suggesting that God and the godlings are impotent; simply because they're in heaven?

 

[1137]

I find it absurd that when people die, they have to go to some specific afterlife place based on their performance on this world. Why can't they go wherever they want to go?? What's the worst can they do, kill more dead people? It just doesn't make sense.

I believe those individuals strong enough to survive phsycial death do essentially make their own after life. The goal is self deification, after all. I imagine it will be like a lucid dream you have full control over, or a permanent, empathetic visualization.

 

[1137]

Since was has "making sense" been a criteria for religious belief?

For some of us, always.

Why should life actions reflect the dead? Afterlife could be a good way to learn from life. Instead some religions are trying to punish or reward the dead, like we do when training animals.

If anything, why would this life not be the place to learn?

The "mind" is based in physical matter. Without that physical matter, there is no "mind" (and, I would contend, no "soul" either - see my post just previous to this one about no object actively participating in the universe without energies needing input).

And there is proof that the "mind" is rooted in physical stuffs. Brain damage. Brain damage has been known to permanently alter a person's "mind" - to the point that they are no longer what they were in that sense. Physical damage equates to "mind" damage. And therefore physical destruction equates to "mind" destruction.

Eh, there's a big difference between emergence and reductionism. If your mother was harmed while pregnant with you, you would likely be harmed as well. But after enough time developing you emerged as an individual, and eventually learned to take care of yourself almost entirely without you'd mother. Sure hurting the brain hurts the mind, the reverse is also true though. Not to mention that a messed up brain, such as one with a mental illness like depression, can be addressed directly by the mind itself. To me it honestly seems quite obvious that reductionism is false, and I've discussed it often here.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

For some of us, always.

Indeed. I sometimes forget that a phrase like "making sense," can mean very different things to different people.

 

[1137]

Indeed. I sometimes forget that a phrase like "making sense," can mean very different things to different people.

True. I personally mean it as something that makes sense is supported by the facts, evidence, and logic. How do you define it?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

True. I personally mean it as something that makes sense is supported by the facts, evidence, and logic. How do you define it?

That's how I would define it also, roughly speaking. I guess people also can mean different things by "define."

 

[1137]

That's how I would define it also, roughly speaking. I guess people also can mean different things by "define."

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think the "most reasonable, evidenced position" is something subjective?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think the "most reasonable, evidenced position" is something subjective?

It clearly is to many people.

 

[Fool]

It clearly is to many people.

that would mean the truth is personal and subjective and God too? is it also clear to many people in prison?

 

[1137]

It clearly is to many people.

Hmm, I don't really know how to disagree with a subjective position, so I guess it's an agree to disagree. I personally understand logic and evidence to be objective and free from personal opinion - at least that's what we should strive for.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Hmm, I don't really know how to disagree with a subjective position, so I guess it's an agree to disagree. I personally understand logic and evidence to be objective and free from personal opinion - at least that's what we should strive for.

Not all striving is equal.

 

[Ben Avraham]

no, the confusion that the mind was under is still present. healing is necessary for the mind to become healthy again vs disturbed. you're suggesting that God and the godlings are impotent; simply because they're in heaven?

Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is among ourselves or within us. (Luke 17:21) There is no heaven as a place to go into. Perhaps the skies where one goes up and returns to earth as for instance the astronauts.

 

[Fool]

Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is among ourselves or within us. (Luke 17:21) There is no heaven as a place to go into. Perhaps the skies where one goes up and returns to earth as for instance the astronauts.

involution of consciousness. the holy grail is ourselves washed clean from the inside out.

 

[Ben Avraham]

involution of consciousness. the holy grail is ourselves washed clean from the inside out.

Please, translate into English. I cannot understand what you are saying.

 

[Fool]

Please, translate into English. I cannot understand what you are saying.

consciousness flows in two directions, inward or outward, upward or downward. Jesus is telling them to look at their thoughts and how they create their reality.

the Holy Grail

Luke 11:39-40
Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also?


the Kingdom of Hell comes from within you too.

 

[Ben Avraham]

consciousness flows in two directions, inward or outward, upward or downward. Jesus is telling them to look at their thoughts and how they create their reality. the Holy Grail

Luke 11:39-40 Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? the Kingdom of Hell comes from within you too.

This text is akin to Mat. 23:13-33 which is a report about 15 times that Jesus broke the Golden Rule which states not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. I bet Jesus would not have liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers. By cursing the Pharisees in that language he broke the Golden Rule which covers the whole second part of the Decalogue and became a sinner just like you and me.

 

[Fool]

This text is akin to Mat. 23:13-33 which is a report about 15 times that Jesus broke the Golden Rule which states not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. I bet Jesus would not have liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers. By cursing the Pharisees in that language he broke the Golden Rule which covers the whole second part of the Decalogue and became a sinner just like you and me.

that doesn't break the golden rule. double minded people break the golden rule.



Hypocrite


(Isa 32:6, the Revised Version (British and American) "profaneness"); chaneph, from which it is derived, means properly "to cover," "to hide," or "becloud," hence, to pollute, to be polluted or defiled, to make profane, to seduce; as a substantive it is translated "hypocrite" (Job 8:13; 13:16; 15:34; 17:8; 20:5; 27:8; 34:30; 36:13, in all which instances the Revised Version (British and American) has "godless man," "godless men," "godless"; Prov 11:9, the Revised Version (British and American) "the godless man"; Isa 9:17, the Revised Version (British and American) "profane"; Isa 33:14, the Revised Version (British and American) "the godless ones"); it is rendered "hypocritical," in Ps 35:16; Isa 10:6, the Revised Version (British and American) "profane."

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

To me it honestly seems quite obvious that reductionism is false, and I've discussed it often here.

What you mean is that you hope that when you are reduced to a corpse that you are somehow "more" than the sum of your parts. That there will be some vestige held onto by the universe in order to preserve you. That there is an "importance" inside you somewhere that obligates eternity to keep you safe. I don't believe these things to be all that obvious, honestly.

 

[1137]

What you mean is that you hope that when you are reduced to a corpse that you are somehow "more" than the sum of your parts. That there will be some vestige held onto by the universe in order to preserve you. That there is an "importance" inside you somewhere that obligates eternity to keep you safe. I don't believe these things to be all that obvious, honestly.

No actually, what I mean is the logic of material reductionism does not hold up at all.