Agnostics: Get Off the Fence

[SalixIncendium]

Some here appear to have concluded that one is either a theist or an atheist; that there is no other option. If this is, indeed, the case, in which camp do you fall if you're agnostic?

Agnostics:

Do you consider yourself to be a theist? Why?
Do you consider yourself to be an atheist? Why?

 

[Mock Turtle]

You mean - which garden do I want to live in?

I would favour the atheist one, given that I doubt the value of most religions, so mostly see myself as such. But I can't in all honesty claim that there are no gods or something akin to such. So I do mostly see myself as an agnostic/atheist, and no doubt a poor example of such.

 

[bobhikes]

Some here appear to have concluded that one is either a theist or an atheist; that there is no other option. If this is, indeed, the case, in which camp do you fall if you're agnostic?

Agnostics:

Do you consider yourself to be a theist? Why?
Do you consider yourself to be an atheist? Why?

Theistic agnostic because I believe in the possibility of a God that is unprovable and I believe atheism excludes that possibility.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Some here appear to have concluded that one is either a theist or an atheist; that there is no other option. If this is, indeed, the case, in which camp do you fall if you're agnostic?

Agnostics:

Do you consider yourself to be a theist? Why?
Do you consider yourself to be an atheist? Why?

It is not the case. I have been on this forum for many years and have kept the same signature that you see below.

I don’t know, and neither do you.​

I am not a theist. To be a theist means that you have faith that God exists. I do not have faith that God exists.

I am not an atheist. The be an atheist you have to have concluded (have faith) that no God exists. I cannot exclude the possibility (and you cannot either).

And before any twits here start labelling me with “strong atheist”, or “atheistic agnostic”, or “weak theist” garbage. Just know that all that blubbering is just garbage. Get over yourselves and your claims of knowledge. You. Don’t. KNOW.
You have faith. I am faithless in this regard.

I’m very comfortable “on the fence” as you say. The rest of you live with your beliefs.
I will keep watching what is, because I don’t think that we’ve learned everything that the multiverse has to show us yet.

There’s plenty of room up here, and all are welcome.

 

[exchemist]

Some here appear to have concluded that one is either a theist or an atheist; that there is no other option. If this is, indeed, the case, in which camp do you fall if you're agnostic?

Agnostics:

Do you consider yourself to be a theist? Why?
Do you consider yourself to be an atheist? Why?

Nobody has any business demanding that someone "gets off the fence" on an issue like this. People who are intellectually honest will never be afraid to say "I don't know", when they don't think they have the information.

 

[Revoltingest]

Theistic agnostic because I believe in the possibility of a God that is unprovable and I believe atheism excludes that possibility.

Atheism has a spectrum, ranging from disbelief
(weak atheism = agnistic) to denial (strong atheism).
We weaklings aren't on the fence at all. There is no
fence, ie, no evidenced side to take.

Edit:
An agnistic is an agnostic with improved spelling.

 

[Yerda]

I think it was @Jayhawker Soule who used to point out that agnosticism pertains to the state of our knowledge while atheism is about the state of our beliefs.

Those things aren't easy to tease apart at all times but the distinction seems significant to me.

 

[Stevicus]

Some here appear to have concluded that one is either a theist or an atheist; that there is no other option. If this is, indeed, the case, in which camp do you fall if you're agnostic?

Agnostics:

Do you consider yourself to be a theist? Why?
Do you consider yourself to be an atheist? Why?

This is like saying everyone must fall into the "tastes great" or "less filling" camp among drinkers of Miller Lite.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some here appear to have concluded that one is either a theist or an atheist; that there is no other option. If this is, indeed, the case, in which camp do you fall if you're agnostic?

Agnostics:

Do you consider yourself to be a theist? Why?
Do you consider yourself to be an atheist? Why?

I'm agnostic in that I recognize that all human "knowledge" is tentative, which therefore means that conclusions about gods - like are conclusions about anything - are subject to a degree of uncertainty.

I don't see the question of the existence of gods to be subject to some special higher degree of uncertainty beyond that which we'd apply to claims about more mundane things.

I also consider myself an atheist because the number of gods I accept as real is zero.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is like saying everyone must fall into the "tastes great" or "less filling" camp among drinkers of Miller Lite.

No, it's like saying that every person has an answer to the question "how many gods do you believe in?"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nobody has any business demanding that someone "gets off the fence" on an issue like this. People who are intellectually honest will never be afraid to say "I don't know", when they don't think they have the information.

There's nothing wrong with recognizing that "I don't know" isn't "yes."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am not an atheist. The be an atheist you have to have concluded (have faith) that no God exists. I cannot exclude the possibility (and you cannot either).

Well, no. All you need to do to be an atheist is just not be a theist.

And plenty of theists have concluded that Gods they don't believe in don't exist. They aren't atheists.

 

[columbus]

Theistic agnostic because I believe in the possibility of a God that is unprovable and I believe atheism excludes that possibility.

This is why I generally use the term "non-theist" when describing myself. Atheist seems commonly interpreted as "hard atheist", which I am not.

While I'm confident that religion as practiced is overwhelmingly fiction, that doesn't mean that there's nothing beyond the material universe. We ignorant, limited, humans just don't(maybe cannot) understand it. But it wasn't that long ago that people thought infectious illness was caused by bad air or demons or curses. They just didn't have the tools and methods needed to grasp parasitic bacteria and viruses and such. We've learned a lot since then. And I expect we'll continue to do so.
Tom

 

[Polymath257]

At times I consider myself to be an agnostic atheist.

I don't have a belief in deities, but I concede there are definitions of the concept that are *possible*.

For example, those who identify the universe with God: I certainly believe in the universe. I just don't agree with the identification.

 

[columbus]

Atheism has a spectrum, ranging from disbelief
(weak atheism = agnistic) to denial (strong atheism).
We weaklings aren't on the fence at all. There is no
fence, ie, no evidenced side to take.

I'd agree, but take it a step farther.
There's a gigantic range of human world views and attitudes towards them. I think that the spectrum ranges from hard atheism to hard theism, with individual humans falling all across it. The people at the extreme ends aren't very rational in my opinion, because they don't recognize the very limited abilities and knowledge we humans have.
I know plenty of devout theists who are aware of their human limitations and consider their beliefs personal. One of my dearest friends was a devout Catholic, who also believed in Jesus sort of the way I believe in Santa Claus.

I believe in Santa. Not a pudgy dude in red who gives toys to the children of well-to-do white folks. But as the personification of the spirit of generosity and comraderery when the world is cold, dark, and harsh. Similarly, she believed that Jesus was the personification of What God Wants Us To Be. She didn't care about theological nonsense, she cared about "Love your neighbor" and "Do for the Least" and "Don't store earthly treasures, store Heavenly treasure."
That sort of Christianity.

She was really pretty agnostic. And I think there's lots of religious folks like her. They just don't make as much noise as the hard theists.
Tom

 

[SalixIncendium]

Nobody has any business demanding that someone "gets off the fence" on an issue like this. People who are intellectually honest will never be afraid to say "I don't know", when they don't think they have the information.

So what do you say to those that claim that these are the only two positions?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd agree, but take it a step farther.
There's a gigantic range of human world views and attitudes towards them. I think that the spectrum ranges from hard atheism to hard theism, with individual humans falling all across it. The people at the extreme ends aren't very rational in my opinion, because they don't recognize the very limited abilities and knowledge we humans have.
I know plenty of devout theists who are aware of their human limitations and consider their beliefs personal. One of my dearest friends was a devout Catholic, who also believed in Jesus sort of the way I believe in Santa Claus.

I believe in Santa. Not a pudgy dude in red who gives toys to the children of well-to-do white folks. But as the personification of the spirit of generosity and comraderery when the world is cold, dark, and harsh. Similarly, she believed that Jesus was the personification of What God Wants Us To Be. She didn't care about theological nonsense, she cared about "Love your neighbor" and "Do for the Least" and "Don't store earthly treasures, store Heavenly treasure."
That sort of Christianity.

She was really pretty agnostic. And I think there's lots of religious folks like her. They just don't make as much noise as the hard theists.
Tom

 

[SalixIncendium]

This is like saying everyone must fall into the "tastes great" or "less filling" camp among drinkers of Miller Lite.

They don't?

I think it's less filling than Miller High Life, but tastes like ****-water.

 

[columbus]

They don't?

I think it's less filling than Miller High Life, but tastes like ****-water.

I've not tried ****-water.
What's it like?

Tom

 

[SalixIncendium]

I also consider myself an atheist because the number of gods I accept as real is zero.

I'm right there with you, but I don't consider myself an atheist.

Then again, the number of people (or anything else in relative reality) I accept as "real" is zero as well.