Alabama passes bill making some transgender healthcare a felony

[fantome profane]

Well, I don’t have an age in mind other than they will probably see their parents. Would be up to the parents on which movies or TV show to watch and if the children had questions then the parents could instruct.

So you not worried that such things are “sexualizing children” at a young age?

 

[metis]

IMO, with children that main role of dealing with the birds & the bees should fall on the parents, but all so many parents simply don't feel comfortable talking to their children about this. I learned sex ed in the streets years before my mother began telling me as my father wouldn't do it.

OTOH, my wife and I had an agreement, namely which one of us got "the question" had to answer it but only to the point whereas they could handle it. Our oldest daughter asked it when 4, I gave her a vague answer, and yet she kept on asking more. Our youngest daughter was there in the room and didn't understand until she asked a couple of years later. Our son didn't ask until he was 7, and if he hadn't by the end of that year, we were going to tell him anyways.

A professional educator well knows that if asked they have to tailor their response to the age and what the child is ready for. At 3, if may just answering if they're ask about why Joe and Sam are married. If it gets too deep, then have them ask their parents, imo. Either way, the role of an educator is to educate but discretion is important as well.

But what DeSantis and his fellow Pubs are doing is complete nonsense and is just political grandstanding.

 

[SomeRandom]

IMO, with children that main role of dealing with the birds & the bees should fall on the parents, but all so many parents simply don't feel comfortable talking to their children about this. I learned sex ed in the streets years before my mother began telling me as my father wouldn't do it.

OTOH, my wife and I had an agreement, namely which one of us got "the question" had to answer it but only to the point whereas they could handle it. Our oldest daughter asked it when 4, I gave her a vague answer, and yet she kept on asking more. Our youngest daughter was there in the room and didn't understand until she asked a couple of years later. Our son didn't ask until he was 7, and if he hadn't by the end of that year, we were going to tell him anyways.

A professional educator well knows that if asked they have to tailor their response to the age and what the child is ready for. At 3, if may just answering if they're ask about why Joe and Sam are married. If it gets too deep, then have them ask their parents, imo. Either way, the role of an educator is to educate but discretion is important as well.

But what DeSantis and his fellow Pubs are doing is complete nonsense and is just political grandstanding.

Can I just say, (this is just an observation) the stereotypical reaction American high school kids seem to have towards even basic sex ed would be easily labelled as grossly immature in my country. Which I find troubling

My high school had a couple of American born kids who had moved here (Australia.)
So when we did the state mandated sex ed class in grade 8 (roughly 12/13 years old) we all just sat there and shrugged it off. I think because most of us already had similar talks in our late primary school years (middle school equivalent.)
So a lot of it was just repeated info but with a bit more nuance added in.
We even had the school chaplain there to explain any biblical issues.
The American kids were both mortified and fascinated at the same time. I didn’t really notice it at the time, but looking back, they seemed far less emotionally mature. Not a criticism just an observation.
I know that US education varies state to state. I’m just saying, they didn’t seem as well equipped as we all seemed to be. And we were dumb kids

 

[nPeace]

I will repeat myself again. I am not promoting any specific treatment. If the evidence indicates that no treatment should be given I am fine with that.

If you are suggesting that more research should be done, I am all down with that.

But obviously the Republican lawmakers have not done that research. How can you believe that they are more qualified to make a blanket ruling for all children in their state. Are you suggesting that the Alabama legislature has a better system for weeding out personal bias than the scientific community?


Go to a medical conference. Make your arguments there. That is the proper place. Not the Alabama legislature.

I don't know why you are misrepresenting what I am saying.
Did I say I 'believe that they are more qualified to make a blanket ruling for all children in their state.'?
Please provide a link to the post where I said that... or are you just trying to create an argument?

 

[fantome profane]

I don't know why you are misrepresenting what I am saying.
Did I say I 'believe that they are more qualified to make a blanket ruling for all children in their state.'?
Please provide a link to the post where I said that... or are you just trying to create an argument?

You are supporting one position over the other. As am I. I think I have explained why I am doing that. And will explain it again if needed.

So why are you supporting the position you are?

 

[nPeace]

You are supporting one position over the other. As am I. I think I have explained why I am doing that. And will explain it again if needed.

So why are you supporting the position you are?

You want to argue, so you are not paying attention to what I say.
I have said this more than once. I have no say in who's decision is right or wrong here Here, and here.
You aren't interested in that though, and I'm not interested in arguing with you.

As for my position. What position is that?

 

[fantome profane]

You want to argue, so you are not paying attention to what I say.
I have said this more than once. I have no say in who's decision is right or wrong here Here, and here.
You aren't interested in that though, and I'm not interested in arguing with you.

As for my position. What position is that?

Then can you tell me why you are not supporting the side that obviously has much much greater expertise and much much more personal involvement.


And btw, you do know this is a debate forum, right?

If you don’t want to argue with me, then don’t argue with me. It is not personal.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If it was truly to protect the kids then they would insist medical decisions be guided by science, medicine, and physicians. Not legislators or pastors.

It's interesting you omitted parents.

 

[nPeace]

Then can you tell me why you are not supporting the side that obviously has much much greater expertise and much much more personal involvement.

Are you paying attention to anything I say? Please be honest. I answered tha about 2 posts back.

And btw, you do know this is a debate forum, right?

So it's okay to misrepresent a users post, in order to create arguments that never end? LOL. you are... how should I say... interesting.

If you don’t want to argue with me, then don’t argue with me. It is not personal.

I won't argue with you. I said Iam not interested. I mean what I say.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's interesting you omitted parents.

Seeing as how my own parents failed me on that with my shins and knees (and a few other things), I have my biases. It's been further deepened by working with parents in mental health and seeing how often they need services more than the kids and often are the reason their kids need services. And my own anecdotes are light compared to how bad this gets, like how some states allow parents to entirely forego medical treatment for their kids if their religious beliefs have them praying for a cure instead. Predictably this has lead to a lot of needlessly dead kids.
Yes, there still needs to be room for second opinions and such, but if a treatment is needed then it is needed, damn what the parents want.

 

[Reyn]

April 7 (Reuters) - Alabama lawmakers passed a bill on Thursday that would criminalize gender-affirming healthcare for transgender youth, with a threat of 10 years in prison for medical providers.

The legislation, passed 66-28 by the state's House of Representatives on the last day of the legislative session, is the latest in a flurry of measures in Republican-led states dealing with transgender youth.

The American Civil Liberties Union called it the first bill of its kind to make healthcare for transgender youth a felony and said it would challenge the bill in court if Republican Governor Kay Ivey signed it into law.

The bill would make it a felony punishable with up to 10 years in prison to provide medical care including hormone treatment, puberty blockers and gender reassignment surgery to minors.

Democrats in the minority tried to fight the bill in part by arguing it contradicted Republican principles on the role of government.
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You know, the question has to be raised: what exactly is it that motivates so bloody much attention by conservative states about people who represent 0.58% of the US population? Surely, it can't be trying to find an enemy to get their base to focus on -- and maybe take action to hurt. (That shouldn't be difficult, since the Republican base outnumbers transgenders by literally hundreds of thousands to one.

I’m in complete support of this law. Minors are minors and should not be making life altering decisions, such as taking puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, or having healthy tissue removed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I’m in complete support of this law. Minors are minors and should not be making life altering decisions, such as taking puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, or having healthy tissue removed.

Not doing those things is also a life-altering decision.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Not doing those things is also a life-altering decision.

There is that, isn't there? Though so many would rather ignore that reality.

You know, sometimes, we just have to admit that there are really, really hard questions that we just don't know how to answer with confidence.

 

[Ashoka]

On thing I hope we can all agree on here is that the parents should have the final say and authority in all areas of their children’s life, their health and education especially what is taught in schools.

However, if what the parent is doing is harmful to the child, the parent should be stopped. Abuse, neglect, etc are examples of this. Furthermore, the child has agency over their own body; they're allowed not to want to be touched, they're allowed to wear the clothes that make them comfortable (if they have a sensory issue). And finally, they have the right to say what their gender is.

This bill is a travesty, and will only result in more young people hurting and killing themselves because, not only does society not accept them, but parents do not as well.

The whole thing is just sad.

 

[Wildswanderer]

April 7 (Reuters) - Alabama lawmakers passed a bill on Thursday that would criminalize gender-affirming healthcare for transgender youth, with a threat of 10 years in prison for medical providers.

The legislation, passed 66-28 by the state's House of Representatives on the last day of the legislative session, is the latest in a flurry of measures in Republican-led states dealing with transgender youth.

The American Civil Liberties Union called it the first bill of its kind to make healthcare for transgender youth a felony and said it would challenge the bill in court if Republican Governor Kay Ivey signed it into law.

The bill would make it a felony punishable with up to 10 years in prison to provide medical care including hormone treatment, puberty blockers and gender reassignment surgery to minors.

Democrats in the minority tried to fight the bill in part by arguing it contradicted Republican principles on the role of government.
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You know, the question has to be raised: what exactly is it that motivates so bloody much attention by conservative states about people who represent 0.58% of the US population? Surely, it can't be trying to find an enemy to get their base to focus on -- and maybe take action to hurt. (That shouldn't be difficult, since the Republican base outnumbers transgenders by literally hundreds of thousands to one.

That's great! Gender change for minor's is child abuse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The American kids were both mortified and fascinated at the same time.

Well, yeah, they learned the proper term for vagina and everything around it and that it's not like a piece of scotch tape or chewing gum.
Learning the truth sometimes does things like that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's great! Gender change for minor's is child abuse.

Thanks for confirming Conservatives and Republicans really aren't serious amd don't mean it at all (and are actually lying) when they say they don't want the government coming between a patient and doctor.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well, yeah, they learned the proper term for vagina and everything around it and that it's not like a piece of scotch tape or chewing gum.
Learning the truth sometimes does things like that.

Ok, the US needs to be sat down on a psychiatrist’s couch. Because y’all have some serious hang ups, I swear

 

[Ashoka]

That's great! Gender change for minor's is child abuse.

If that's the case so is:
1. Piercing a newborn's ears
2. Male circumcision
3. Putting up a child's hair when they don't want it done that way.
4. Corporal punishment in schools

For the record, I think those four things are also wrong and abusive because it takes bodily autonomy away from the child. But a minor making a decision about their gender identity is their business. The first four examples I gave were parents deciding how a child's body should look or how they treat a child's body. But a minor chose their gender identity. There is no wrong in that. It's their body, their choice.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok, the US needs to be sat down on a psychiatrist’s couch. Because y’all have some serious hang ups, I swear

Yeah. It's another reason that anymore mainstream American culture is increasingly impossible to identify with. And as screwy as it is, multiple studies have found Conservatives have more sex than Liberals, but they're the ones pushing this toxic garbage amd most ashamed and embarrassed of a bare tit.