All is Well, All is Well...

[Sunstone]

"You know, all mystics - Catholic, Christian, non-Christian, no matter what their theology, no matter what their religion - are unanimous on one thing: that all is well, all is well. Though everything is a mess, all is well. Strange paradox, to be sure. But, tragically, most people never get to see that all is well because they are asleep. They are having a nightmare."

- Anthony de Mello
​

Is Anthony de Mello correct to think that all -- or at least most -- mystics agree that "all is well"?

If so, why do all or most mystics think all is well? Is there anything they see or experience that would convince them all is well?

 

[Sunstone]

Their faith is an escapist coping mechanism. It would defeat the purpose if it didn't give them comfort, security and complacency. Ignorance is a necessary component of their peace and bliss.

The thread is in the Mysticism DIR, FH.

 

[Father Heathen]

The thread is in the Mysticism DIR, FH.

Well, ****. They certainly like to sneak up on you.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, ****. They certainly like to sneak up on you.

Yeah, I make the same mistake myself all the time. No harm done.

 

[Renji]

"You know, all mystics - Catholic, Christian, non-Christian, no matter what their theology, no matter what their religion - are unanimous on one thing: that all is well, all is well. Though everything is a mess, all is well. Strange paradox, to be sure. But, tragically, most people never get to see that all is well because they are asleep. They are having a nightmare."

- Anthony de Mello
​

Is Anthony de Mello correct to think that all -- or at least most -- mystics agree that "all is well"?

If so, why do all or most mystics think all is well? Is there anything they see or experience that would convince them all is well?

I am not a mystic, but this reminds me of a Catholic bishop here on my country who served all walks of life; the rich and the poor,famous and ordinary people, Catholics, non-Catholics and even those that what others call as "non believers".

There should be harmony among all of us, whether we all have different beliefs or we have different "status" in life. Maybe, the most common thing about world religions is that we aim for the "good" of many. We just can't see it because of our diverse beliefs.

 

[Alceste]

Yes, I completely relate to that. The suffering that I feel about the world being a mess is entirely due to wishing things were otherwise. In the mindframe that fully embraces and accepts what is, the suffering goes.

 

[Sunstone]

Yes, I completely relate to that. The suffering that I feel about the world being a mess is entirely due to wishing things were otherwise. In the mindframe that fully embraces and accepts what is, the suffering goes.

Good observation.

 

[Sunstone]

Good observation.

Can you think of any additional reasons mystics might say, "all is well"?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I think it refers to the idea that all is in its place. We look at the world through the lens of right and wrong, and we see things either out of place or in harmony. Many mystics look at the world with the understanding that all is in its place because it is simply the way it is.

 

[YmirGF]

They say that because people are unprepared for the truth and probably would not accept the truth if it were handed to them on a golden platter, unless of course, it conformed to their current thinking - thus, "All is well".

 

[Alceste]

Can you think of any additional reasons mystics might say, "all is well"?

Well, another facet of seeing the world as it is would be understanding that it can not be otherwise. All things are behaving according to their nature. IOW, humans act like monkeys (brutish, tribal, cliquish and unthinking) because we are monkeys. If we were not unthinking, violent brutes at times, we would not be homo sapiens. I have noted that the world is exactly half crappy and half awesome when seen through the prism of my personal desires. Setting aside my desire for people to behave as something other than the apes they are, everything seems 100% pretty much OK, mostly. That sense (and the practice that leads to it) can become a pretty good foundation for simply being delighted and amazed that anything exists at all.

 

[chinu]

If so, why do all or most mystics think all is well? Is there anything they see or experience that would convince them all is well?

Because after "Aweakining" they notice that this whole game is created and started by Themselves.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not claiming to be a mystic or even to have a clear idea of what a mystic is, but it seems to me that to the extent that the statement in the OP is true, it is so because

1) As once taught to me in a LamRim Buddhist group, there is no good fruit to be had from the decisions of an afflicted mind. Therefore, while it is certainly necessary to pursue truth, it is not the utmost priority. A person must ensure a certain degree of peace and harmony first, even if it compromises the extent to which he can understand truth.

I don't want to make it appear that I am agreeing with those who think "feeling well" is all that matters. I actually despise that mindset. But there is much practical wisdom in recognizing that people need a modicum of harmony and happiness, and that one's mental faculties are vulnerable.

2) That said, and as Alceste pointed out already, there is a kind of calm acceptance when one is aware of how much there is wrong in the world. The expectation of a world that is "all right" is, after all, very much a delusion, and it is possible to draw a lot of mental and spiritual fortitude from the refusal of feeding that delusion. Even more important, letting go of that delusion makes one's goals both more convincing, more meaningful and easier to choose, so in that sense it is far more engaging and motivating than anything that could be had with that delusion. Such a solid faith can be very reassuring indeed, despite superficial appearances to the contrary.

 

[atanu]

"You know, all mystics - Catholic, Christian, non-Christian, no matter what their theology, no matter what their religion - are unanimous on one thing: that all is well, all is well. Though everything is a mess, all is well. Strange paradox, to be sure. But, tragically, most people never get to see that all is well because they are asleep. They are having a nightmare."

- Anthony de Mello
​

Is Anthony de Mello correct to think that all -- or at least most -- mystics agree that "all is well"?

If so, why do all or most mystics think all is well? Is there anything they see or experience that would convince them all is well?

I agree with Alceste.

Not all mystics, however, are able to say with conviction "All is well". It is said that the mind is wish fulfilling tree (kalpataru) or a magic wish fulfilling milk yielding cow (kAmdhenu). Suppose one wishes with conviction for certain goodies and those wishes are fulfilled. At the same time, fears arise that the goodies will be destroyed -- and so it happens.

Those who are able say "all is well" with conviction are only a few, IMO.

...

 

[Alceste]

I'm not claiming to be a mystic or even to have a clear idea of what a mystic is, but it seems to me that to the extent that the statement in the OP is true, it is so because

1) As once taught to me in a LamRim Buddhist group, there is no good fruit to be had from the decisions of an afflicted mind. Therefore, while it is certainly necessary to pursue truth, it is not the utmost priority. A person must ensure a certain degree of peace and harmony first, even if it compromises the extent to which he can understand truth.

I don't want to make it appear that I am agreeing with those who think "feeling well" is all that matters. I actually despise that mindset. But there is much practical wisdom in recognizing that people need a modicum of harmony and happiness, and that one's mental faculties are vulnerable.

2) That said, and as Alceste pointed out already, there is a kind of calm acceptance when one is aware of how much there is wrong in the world. The expectation of a world that is "all right" is, after all, very much a delusion, and it is possible to draw a lot of mental and spiritual fortitude from the refusal of feeding that delusion. Even more important, letting go of that delusion makes one's goals both more convincing, more meaningful and easier to choose, so in that sense it is far more engaging and motivating than anything that could be had with that delusion. Such a solid faith can be very reassuring indeed, despite superficial appearances to the contrary.

I find the feeling of belonging to and adoring the world that is, rather than the world I imagine or the world I would prefer, very reassuring. Which isn't to say I am not imagining that I perceive the world is it is, as well... But with the peeling away of each successive onion skin of worldly illusion, more of what I observe in the world makes sense. Or, put another way, less of what I observe in the world needs to make sense. On an emotional level, that amounts to the same thing, more or less. Rather than solving a troubling conundrum, I compost it. Either way it's gone, and all is well.

 

[no-body]

It is claimed that the true awakened person can see beauty and be totally at peace even if they where dying and tortured in a prisoner of war camp; that there is no right and wrong as such.

This is one of the things that puzzle me inside the nebulous term "mysticism" and other "now" based philosophies though. If there is no right and wrong then why should we strive to get rid of suffering, violence, war, etc? It is hinted that in the natural order of things if someone is truly present they will not want to harm another and there will be no striving to do anything as such, but I can't see why.

Perhaps because of the realization that we are all one but I find it hard to believe that everyone will come to the same conclusion and want to live peaceably, but that's probably just my egos cynicism...

 

[Alceste]

No-body, independent realization is the only way you can answer those questions satisfactorily. The general idea, though, is that mystical awakening tends to come packaged with the notion that when we hurt others, we are actually hurting ourselves. That's a consequence of temporarily silencing the ego through practice. Without my ego banging on about my significance, I am no more or less important than the lowliest maggot. Maggots and I, therefore, playing for the same team. I am reluctant to cause harm and suffering because I generally believe activity that does not reduce the sum total of suffering for my team (everything that lives) is pointless.

 

[atanu]

It is claimed that the true awakened person can see beauty and be totally at peace even if they where dying and tortured in a prisoner of war camp; that there is no right and wrong as such.

This is one of the things that puzzle me inside the nebulous term "mysticism" and other "now" based philosophies though. If there is no right and wrong then why should we strive to get rid of suffering, violence, war, etc? .....

As per Sanatana dharma, the true awakened person is all pervasive vishnu. In Buddhism such a one is 'tathAgata'. The boundaries exist in the objects of Mind-Senses. But the awakaned person is the reality of Mind-Senses.

But from within the realm of mind-senses, where most of us abide in, the pains are practically real. So, such a person needs to strive (by various prescribed means) to unshackle the attachments of mind-senses.

In a metaphoric way. Waves on an ocean are always fearful of being fragile and transitory. But a rare wave may see itself as water of ocean, by looking inwards and stopping to look outward at its shape ...

...

 

[Valjean]

I agree with de Mello -- and mystics everywhere. We're dreaming our world. Wake up and it becomes clear that it was all just a fantasy.

However -- as long as we're in the dream we have to act the part. We have to live in the world we perceive and deal with it as real.

 

[Quagmire]

It is claimed that the true awakened person can see beauty and be totally at peace even if they where dying and tortured in a prisoner of war camp; that there is no right and wrong as such.

This is one of the things that puzzle me inside the nebulous term "mysticism" and other "now" based philosophies though. If there is no right and wrong then why should we strive to get rid of suffering, violence, war, etc?

Who says we should? Striving is what causes suffering, violence, war, etc.

It is hinted that in the natural order of things if someone is truly present they will not want to harm another and there will be no striving to do anything as such, but I can't see why.

Because you're not truly present.

Perhaps because of the realization that we are all one but I find it hard to believe that everyone will come to the same conclusion

It's not a conclusion, it's a realization.