All Testaments Created Equal?

[InformedIgnorance]

I have recently attempted to get my hands on a bible and noticed with great discontent that the book stores I went to had bibles that were restricted to the new testament (almost no 'complete' copies of the bible were available). And it set me to wonder - are a considerable number of christians and christian organisations attempting to move away from having a physical copy of the complete old testament and instead supply only the new testament and perhaps particular sections from the old testament (such as the creation account and those stories that are perhaps more in keeping with more mainstream denominations' christian teachings).

Do you believe that within your own community and the wider christian community there is a move away from supplying a copy of the OT? From referring to the OT? Or from incorporating the OT into theological discussions? If so what do you think are the causes and potential impacts of such a move?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I have recently attempted to get my hands on a bible and noticed with great discontent that the book stores I went to had bibles that were restricted to the new testament (almost no 'complete' copies of the bible were available).

Forgive my intrusion, but I find this extremely hard to believe.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Forgive my intrusion, but I find this extremely hard to believe.

So do I. Nonetheless, it happened.

First store: Two copies (not versions) of the NT and OT as a single book (one of which was damaged) compared to dozens of NT only copies
Second store: NT only
Third store: Plenty of both (it was a religious book store specially)

 

[Shiranui117]

I have recently attempted to get my hands on a bible and noticed with great discontent that the book stores I went to had bibles that were restricted to the new testament (almost no 'complete' copies of the bible were available). And it set me to wonder - are a considerable number of christians and christian organisations attempting to move away from having a physical copy of the complete old testament and instead supply only the new testament and perhaps particular sections from the old testament (such as the creation account and those stories that are perhaps more in keeping with more mainstream denominations' christian teachings).

Do you believe that within your own community and the wider christian community there is a move away from supplying a copy of the OT? From referring to the OT? Or from incorporating the OT into theological discussions? If so what do you think are the causes and potential impacts of such a move?

I'm going to second Jayhawker Soule on this one; I simply cannot believe this. What bookstores did you go to? The local cathedral bookstore here in the city I'm living in had numerous Bibles--some with the OT+NT, some OT only, some NT only. Any bookstore should have numerous versions of the complete Bible available.

Sure, the NT by itself is much easier to carry around. But I don't think there's at all a trend by Christians to disregard the OT--even among those of us who don't follow the Mosaic Law, we still value the teaching and wisdom to be found in the OT, and see in it many foreshadowings, typologies and prophecies concerning Christ, His mother, the Church, and salvation.

I don't think there's any move to get rid of the OT or sideline it among either us Orthodox Christians or among the wider Christian community in general. To do so would be almost absurd, and we would lose so much in the process.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Christian book stores have any number of Bibles.
In recent years Christian book stores have become hard to find as a majority have closed... much in the same way many "Serious" book stores have closed.

An ordinary popular book store in the high street may stock a token Bible or two but New Testaments are more easy to come by.
The greatest variety of the various translations and editions are available on line, or from university books stores. Cathedral book store are unlikely to have versions from other denominations.

 

[dantech]

Sorry shorthand, OT = Old Testament, NT = New Testament.

He means to say that saying Old Testament is disrespectful to us, the Jews. It makes it seem as if our Tanakh is old, and outdated, while the New Testament is new, and fresh.
We prefer to refer to it as the Torah or Tanakh.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

He means to say that saying Old Testament is disrespectful to us, the Jews. It makes it seem as if our Tanakh is old, and outdated, while the New Testament is new, and fresh.
We prefer to refer to it as the Torah or Tanakh.

He made the thread in the Christian directory and that is how it is referred to by Christians. Why do you think so many Christians feel that they are no longer bound by the law?

 

[dantech]

He made the thread in the Christian directory and that is how it is referred to by Christians. Why do you think so many Christians feel that they are no longer bound by the law?

Well this is a DIR and I'm obviously not allowed to have a debate on the subject.
There is a thread in "Same Faith Debates" exactly on this subject.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Australia's Booktopia: Bibles.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Well this is a DIR and I'm obviously not allowed to have a debate on the subject.
There is a thread in "Same Faith Debates" exactly on this subject.

Sorry I wasn't trying to start a debate. The question was rhetorical, but just that by calling it a new covenant it is supposedly replacing the one God made with Israel which is called the OT by Christians. I never really knew what the big deal was until later in life when some of my Jewish friends would point out that saying OT implies God no longer has a covenant with Israel.

 

[dantech]

Sorry I wasn't trying to start a debate. The question was rhetorical, but just that by calling it a new covenant it is supposedly replacing the one God made with Israel which is called the OT by Christians. I never really knew what the big deal was until later in life when some of my Jewish friends would point out that saying OT implies God no longer has a covenant with Israel.

That's pretty much it. And I have no idea, so this is why I am asking... Do Christians believe that Jews no longer have a covenant with God?

 

[Norrin-6-]

Could it be that more people are interested in reading the New Testament from a scholarly perspective and thus might want a cheaper alternative to buying the standard bible?

 

[CMike]

He made the thread in the Christian directory and that is how it is referred to by Christians. Why do you think so many Christians feel that they are no longer bound by the law?

The problem is you are being disrespectful about Judaism.

So it may be the christian directory, but you are talking about jewish sacred text in a disrespectful manner.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Could it be that more people are interested in reading the New Testament from a scholarly perspective and thus might want a cheaper alternative to buying the standard bible?

Could it be that the claim is false?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The problem is you are being disrespectful about Judaism.

So it may be the christian directory, but you are talking about jewish sacred text in a disrespectful manner.

The thing is it's not considered "your" text to Christians. I'm sure you've seen on here what some Christians think about Judaisms relationship with God. Not all of us think this way but it's not an uncommon thought that God has stopped the covenant with Jews(due to their sinful nature and rejection of Jesus) in favor for the entire world.

 

[Norrin-6-]

Could it be that the claim is false?

As the original poster didn't make any expansive claims or lead anyone to believe his story accounts for more than his own experience / geographical location, I can't determine that his claim is false. Could it be? Certainly.

I'm by no means painting with a wide brush when I suggest the possibility in my last post. I know there is no shortage of bible versions that include both the "Old" and New Testament to be found online and in a wide market of stores. But if you want facts, the bookstore at my local mall doesn't have a big selection of bibles. My uncle's used bookstore doesn't have any bibles. That's my experience in the real world where I live.

 

[Windwalker]

The problem is you are being disrespectful about Judaism.

So it may be the christian directory, but you are talking about jewish sacred text in a disrespectful manner.

Is this is a new form of political correctness, trying to change the conventional terms Christianity has used for the last couple thousand years? It's a term based on Hebrews 8:6, "But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises."

It's a Christian belief based on Christian texts. Should Christians likewise get offended that you understand their religion differently than they do, and ask you to start calling Jesus the Christ out of respect to them?

I don't think anyone intends an offense.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

I have recently attempted to get my hands on a bible and noticed with great discontent that the book stores I went to had bibles that were restricted to the new testament (almost no 'complete' copies of the bible were available). And it set me to wonder - are a considerable number of christians and christian organisations attempting to move away from having a physical copy of the complete old testament and instead supply only the new testament and perhaps particular sections from the old testament (such as the creation account and those stories that are perhaps more in keeping with more mainstream denominations' christian teachings).

Do you believe that within your own community and the wider christian community there is a move away from supplying a copy of the OT? From referring to the OT? Or from incorporating the OT into theological discussions? If so what do you think are the causes and potential impacts of such a move?

I think you've made a judgemental error. The contemporary "christianity" you see is a pseudomorph i.e. a false form the real thing. Bibles are available from other sources than a 'christian' book store or book store. There are a lot of free Bibles offered. Just look for them.

 

[Shermana]

The new is built upon the old. It would be like saying everything you learned in grades K-12 is all crap now that you're in college

He may have a slight point, it seems most Christians have a belief that the New REPLACES the old, and that pretty much everything in the old can be thrown out or just regarded as obsolete without much direct application.

The very use of the term "Old Testament" carries this direct connotation, I use the term simply for ease of reference but I shouldn't.

 

[Windwalker]

He may have a slight point, it seems most Christians have a belief that the New REPLACES the old, and that pretty much everything in the old can be thrown out or just regarded as obsolete without much direct application.

The very use of the term "Old Testament" carries this direct connotation, I use the term simply for ease of reference but I shouldn't.

To quote from Galatians that ties into Hebrews which calls the teachings of Jesus as the "new covenant", "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

I agree, it doesn't "replace" it, meaning you can just toss it in the trash bin or something, but to me the modern expression to "transcend and include", is a better way to understand how it was understood by the founders of the religion. It was viewd as "fulfilling" the law, through understanding not the letter of the law, but the spirit behind it. Religion takes teachings and instructions and turns them into a substitute realization. Rather than coming to know the heart, it replaces that with legalism. "Love is the fulfillment of the law", says Romans 13:10. All the "new covenant" is to replace an externalized law, with an internal knowledge.

So in this sense, an internal realization supersedes an externalized law. It is "superior" as it is not just something imposed upon you, but something that grows from inside, without needed to be told. That said, if anyone holds to any tradition and realizes this, then they are operating from that very spirit, IMHO. There are plenty of Christians who externalize the teachings of the NT in the same way as living by the letter of the law to be "righteous before God". They too miss the point.