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Allah being merciful

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” Deuteronomy 13:13-19

Same argument?
We can then ask reasonably:

Was eradiating child sacrifice in fire to idols one of the most important of all priorities evidently in the text of the old testament?

Answer: Yes. Worshipping idols -- sacrificing children in fires to the common idols of the region -- is several times warned against in the most extreme way, as you just showed.

Like a gardener pulling out a certain very harmful weed, roots and all, leaving no trace, so God would have Israel remove it in a total way, so that nothing remained of it.

And all would go to the place where the innocent and forgiven are separated from the unrepentant guilty. The innocents/forgiven to eternal life, the unrepentant to eternal death.

But nevertheless it seems from 1rst Peter chapter 3 wording they would all have a chance to hear the gospel after this mortal life, having a chance to turn and be redeemed.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Like a gardener pulling out a certain very harmful weed, roots and all, leaving no trace, so God would have Israel remove it in a total way, so that nothing remained of it.

So that's how you would justify killing babies? Harmful weed? Okay. So tell me, how could animals be "harmful weed" now that you think babies can be?

Anyway, I think this is going off the topic.

Have a great day.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
When I think of people killing other people, I can't see justification for it.
Like yourself possibly, I'm a pacifist, and for me, it's even more total because of the instruction from Christ (below).

I'm perhaps like that finding that 80% of troops in large wars historically that would not actually shoot to kill the enemy, but would intentionally shoot nearby at the ground or into the air, so to seem as if they are shooting at the enemy, but intentionally trying not to kill.

The purpose in life isn't to try not to sin.

I agree -- and that's actually a key thing the New Testament says.

(
though in a different wording).

We learn that we cannot succeed in avoiding sin by will power. Here's the famous chapter saying that:
Romans 7 NIV
(of course the way doesn't stop here in just 1 chapter, but the solution comes next)


Even more so, a lot of people say when you have a savior it takes away the responsibility for the person to mend his or her own actions.

I know what you mean!

That idea is just the opposite of what is in the actual text it turns out(!). We have to show fruits of real and true change or we will go to the 'second death', the text tells us in many ways, many places. It's even more emphasized than the fact we are only saved by Grace(!).

Here is the kind of thing Christ said:
Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

See, what you are thinking of where Christ removes responsibility is not actually the teaching of Christ, but instead is one of a variety of U.S. popular (altered) versions of 'Christianity', a widespread one though.

You are entirely right to reject that version of Christianity. All should. I do.

The idea we can be unreformed, hurt others, not become kind and loving towards others....and still make it to Life is a similar in a way to another popular in the U.S. false gospel called the 'prosperity gospel' -- an idea invented in recent decades (or becoming more widespread) that because of Christ they aren't held to account. People ignoring such commands as Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.
will die in the "second death" for not doing as Christ says to us to do. (just read the full chapter to see that)

More on how we fairly will get what we deserve ultimately:
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” a 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2 NIV

And this is why we most of us need help, a redeemer to change us, to give us a new heart --

Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."
 

Neuropteron

Active Member
I wanted to make a thread on this but couldn't figure if I should do it here. I don't have aversion against the Quran, Allah, and so have you so keep it positive.

To anyone who knows this-please answer more than a couple of sentences. I'm actually curious.

-
In christianity it is said that god loves all people just some choose not to follow.

Are these things true?


Hi,
The premise that God loves all people is not in the Bible. Rather it is a fabrication of those with evil intent to excuse or minimise their actions. There are plenty of scriptural evidence that God hates what is wicked and will judge the evidoers.
Thus this does not seem to be a good basis for comparing Allah with the God of the Bible.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
So that's how you would justify killing babies? Harmful weed? Okay. So tell me, how could animals be "harmful weed" now that you think babies can be?

Anyway, I think this is going off the topic.

Have a great day.
The idea the babies are dead is a form of saying God doesn't exist.
(and people of any age for that matter)

If God exists, none are dead.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hi,
The premise that God loves all people is not in the Bible. Rather it is a fabrication of those with evil intent to excuse or minimise their actions. There are plenty of scriptural evidence that God hates what is wicked and will judge the evidoers.
Thus this does not seem to be a good basis for comparing Allah with the God of the Bible.

Does Allah punish evildoers and is merciful to believers?

I know reading verses in the Quran, Allah seems to be more focused on believers.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
To anyone who knows this-please answer more than a couple of sentences. I'm actually curious.
In the bible, jesus walks on water and heals the dead to show that by faith a christian can do "the same thing" (or have the power of god behind their faith to make miraculous things happen).
Jesus also had conversations and lessons (like the mustard seed) to show the different levels of faith people can have from rocky soil to good soil and who an actual good/half/bad followers are in his father.
There are many examples of god (say jesus) being merciful beyond the claims. Actions that support the claim rather than the claim support itself.
In christianity it is said that god loves all people just some choose not to follow. In the Quran, it sounds like god does not love all people only those who choose to follow. Are these things true?

True, I find Jesus did walk on water and heals/resurrects the dead, but that does Not mean his followers would do the same things.
The miraculous things that Jesus made happen was a small sample, a preview, a coming attraction of what Jesus (Not his followers) will be doing during his 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth. This is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 says ' there is going to be' a resurrection.... (future tense)
What Jesus' followers would be doing is spreading world wide the good news message about God's kingdom government coming ( thy kingdom come.....)
God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) is the instruction that Jesus gave according to Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Yes, the God of the Bible loves all people, but Not all people will love God, that is why Matthew 20:28 says Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say all.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Like yourself possibly, I'm a pacifist, and for me, it's even more total because of the instruction from Christ (below).

I'm perhaps like that finding that 80% of troops in large wars historically that would not actually shoot to kill the enemy, but would intentionally shoot nearby at the ground or into the air, so to seem as if they are shooting at the enemy, but intentionally trying not to kill.



I agree -- and that's actually a key thing the New Testament says.

(
though in a different wording).

We learn that we cannot succeed in avoiding sin by will power. Here's the famous chapter saying that:
Romans 7 NIV
(of course the way doesn't stop here in just 1 chapter, but the solution comes next)




I know what you mean!

That idea is just the opposite of what is in the actual text it turns out(!). We have to show fruits of real and true change or we will go to the 'second death', the text tells us in many ways, many places. It's even more emphasized than the fact we are only saved by Grace(!).

Here is the kind of thing Christ said:
Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

See, what you are thinking of where Christ removes responsibility is not actually the teaching of Christ, but instead is one of a variety of U.S. popular (altered) versions of 'Christianity', a widespread one though.

You are entirely right to reject that version of Christianity. All should. I do.

The idea we can be unreformed, hurt others, not become kind and loving towards others....and still make it to Life is a similar in a way to another popular in the U.S. false gospel called the 'prosperity gospel' -- an idea invented in recent decades (or becoming more widespread) that because of Christ they aren't held to account. People ignoring such commands as Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.
will die in the "second death" for not doing as Christ says to us to do. (just read the full chapter to see that)

More on how we fairly will get what we deserve ultimately:
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” a 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2 NIV

And this is why we most of us need help, a redeemer to change us, to give us a new heart --

Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

Hmm. Your religious belief is very complicated, mythological, and exotic. I'm pretty simple when it comes to spirituality, et cetera.

There is only one death. "Sin" (to use the term) does not need to be forgiven by others. That we come to healing and process of understanding what we have done by ourselves, and help from others and help (rather than pardon) from our gods et cetera.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
We can then ask reasonably:
Was eradiating child sacrifice in fire to idols one of the most important of all priorities evidently in the text of the old testament?
Answer: Yes. Worshipping idols -- sacrificing children in fires to the common idols of the region -- is several times warned against in the most extreme way, as you just showed.
And all would go to the place where the innocent and forgiven are separated from the unrepentant guilty. The innocents/forgiven to eternal life, the unrepentant to eternal death.
But nevertheless it seems from 1rst Peter chapter 3 wording they would all have a chance to hear the gospel after this mortal life, having a chance to turn and be redeemed.

Yes, I find the willful unrepentant to eternal death or as Psalms 92:7 the wicked will be destroyed forever.
So, we are all given the choice of 2 Peter 3:9 to ' repent ' if we don't wish to ' perish' (<- meaning 'be destroyed' )
In the coming resurrection both the righteous and unrighteous can have a resurrection..... according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Child sacrifice was forbidden by God according to Jeremiah 32:35
Their sons were Not to be sacrificed as food for their idols - Ezekiel 23:37
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Hi,
The premise that God loves all people is not in the Bible. Rather it is a fabrication of those with evil intent to excuse or minimise their actions. There are plenty of scriptural evidence that God hates what is wicked and will judge the evidoers..................
Yes, I find the God of the Bible does love ALL people - 1 John 5:7; 1 Timothy 2:5-6
Yes, God does hate 'what' is wicked but that is Not the same as saying the wicked person can't or won't repent.
Repentant wicked people can be part of the MANY covered by Jesus' ransom for us - Matthew 20:28.
God will have Jesus judge both the figurative 'sheep' and ' goats ' at the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37
Adverse judgement for the haughty 'goats'.
Favorable judgement for the humble ' sheep'.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Yes, I find the God of the Bible does love ALL people - 1 John 5:7; 1 Timothy 2:5-6
Yes, God does hate 'what' is wicked but that is Not the same as saying the wicked person can't or won't repent.
Repentant wicked people can be part of the MANY covered by Jesus' ransom for us - Matthew 20:28.
God will have Jesus judge both the figurative 'sheep' and ' goats ' at the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37
Adverse judgement for the haughty 'goats'.
Favorable judgement for the humble ' sheep'.

Wouldn't love not put eternal stipulations for the sin of the person?

Do you believe god's love is unconditional? (It doesn't seem so)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Wouldn't love not put eternal stipulations for the sin of the person?
Do you believe god's love is unconditional? (It doesn't seem so)
Agree that God's love is conditional. There are conditions to be met such as found at Zephaniah 2:3

As far as our inherited leanings toward sin inherited from father Adam: in Scripture ' death ' is the total price tag we pay for one's own sins.
It is Not death plus any post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy in death or after death - Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7.
Because we can't resurrect oneself or another is why we need someone who can resurrect the dead.
In Scripture, Jesus can and will resurrect the dead - Revelation 1:18.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The idea the babies are dead is a form of saying God doesn't exist.
(and people of any age for that matter) If God exists, none are dead.

I find because ' there is going to be ' a resurrection.... that the dead can see life again - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Babies can be protected by the parent - 1 Corinthians 7:14.

Unrepentant wilfully-wicked people bring their own destruction upon themselves - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:30
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Agree that God's love is conditional. There are conditions to be met such as found at Zephaniah 2:3

As far as our inherited leanings toward sin inherited from father Adam: in Scripture ' death ' is the total price tag we pay for one's own sins.
It is Not death plus any post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy in death or after death - Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7.
Because we can't resurrect oneself or another is why we need someone who can resurrect the dead.
In Scripture, Jesus can and will resurrect the dead - Revelation 1:18.

Can I ask you a question. Why do you (and others of the same mindset) type scriptures?

I can see between believers or in a scripture-based conversation.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I wanted to make a thread on this but couldn't figure if I should do it here. I don't have aversion against the Quran, Allah, and so have you so keep it positive.

To anyone who knows this-please answer more than a couple of sentences. I'm actually curious.

-

In the bible, jesus walks on water and heals the dead to show that by faith a christian can do "the same thing" (or have the power of god behind their faith to make miraculous things happen).

Jesus also had conversations and lessons (like the mustard seed) to show the different levels of faith people can have from rocky soil to good soil and who an actual good/half/bad followers are in his father.

There are many examples of god (say jesus) being merciful beyond the claims. Actions that support the claim rather than the claim support itself.

Does the Quran have any examples of Allah being merciful?

If mercifulness can only be shown in practice, and not everyone is a Muslim, does Allah not love them (as a creator of all people)?

In christianity it is said that god loves all people just some choose not to follow. In the Quran, it sounds like god does not love all people only those who choose to follow.

Are these things true?
This sentence is in top head of most scriptures of Quran .
In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful
I think the most of word mentioned in Quran is merciful .

check this video please

 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This sentence is in top head of most scriptures of Quran .
In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful
I think the most of word mentioned in Quran is merciful .

check this video please


Id have to watch it a bit later. Does it give an analogy or an example of his mercy?

Anyone can say they are merciful, but what examples (if there are any?) does a Muslim go on in the Quran that "shows" them the mercy of Allah?

I know CT said in another thread it's through the practice. Is it "just" the practice?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Id have to watch it a bit later. Does it give an analogy or an example of his mercy?

Anyone can say they are merciful, but what examples (if there are any?) does a Muslim go on in the Quran that "shows" them the mercy of Allah?

I know CT said in another thread it's through the practice. Is it "just" the practice?
Sorry I don't get your point very well due my weak language :)
There is lot of exemple of His mecry .
You wait in your mother's belly for 9 monthes without need .
He give us instinct "eat or sex....etc"
I am talking in general . there is rare cases ; when less mecry ;that He knows why.
In Islam we looking in His mecry in Jugdement day.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Can I ask you a question. Why do you (and others of the same mindset) type scriptures?
I can see between believers or in a scripture-based conversation.
Thank you for your reply.
Since a sighted Scripture can be clicked on to be viewed, even a person without a Bible can read for one's self what that verse or passage is saying.
In other words, I don't want a person to think I am referring to something that is Not in Scripture but just where in Scripture it is located for easy viewing.
Also, I don't wish to make my response any longer than I feel is necessary by typing out the verses which this forum makes it so easy to click on to the verse(s).
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sorry I don't get your point very well due my weak language :)
There is lot of example of His mercy .
You wait in your mother's belly for 9 months without need .
He give us instinct "eat or sex....etc"
I am talking in general . there is rare cases ; when less mercy; that He knows why.
In Islam we looking in His mercy in Judgement day.
Interesting post ^ above^.
I suppose genuine 'wheat' Christians are also looking in God's mercy in Judgement Day.
By Judgement Day I am referring to to a 'day' (time frame) of separating to take place on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Mercy for the figurative humble people (sheep) so that they will have a 'favorable judgement' and remain alive on Earth and continue to live on Earth to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth for a thousand years with everlasting life in view.
 
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