Allah, Yahweh, or Jehovah

[metis]

Now, I'm a Messianic Jew. Obviously, if you have not converted, you face the self-defeating honesty you accuse me of avoiding. I didn't avoid it!

A great example of what I just posted above.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Great! So you know that the answer is "David". Or "Solomon." So that means that any theology based on thinking it refers to anyone else is in error! Praise be! You are healed!

The answer is a Son of David, yes. Correct. Now, how is it that David has God speaking to David's son?

"Yahuweh said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." If the Messiah is merely a son of David, why does David call him Adonai? How is the son greater than the father, and Adonai? And who is this one who sits at God's right hand?

I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

We adjure you, in the Name of God, swear to tell the truth, are you the Messiah, THE (singular) Son of God?

I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You have written some pretty nasty stuff from time to time, especially that of often being terribly condescending to the point of arrogance. You have judged people and you have condemned entire religions. Heed you own advice, and don't cite the speck in someone else's eye when you have a plank in your own.

A great example of what I just posted above.

I was told my faith is a lie and would deflate before self-defeating honesty. That is exceptionally rude.

To be honest, I was honest about what I believed as a Jew.

 

[rosends]

The answer is a Son of David, yes. Correct. Now, how is it that David has God speaking to David's son?

"Yahuweh said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." If the Messiah is merely a son of David, why does David call him Adonai? How is the son greater than the father, and Adonai? And who is this one who sits at God's right hand?

I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

We adjure you, in the Name of God, swear to tell the truth, are you the Messiah, THE (singular) Son of God?

I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.

Now YOU are avoiding what the text says:

Psalms 2: 7I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you.

Not a "son of David." David. Is there a problem?

 

[BilliardsBall]

You have written some pretty nasty stuff from time to time, especially that of often being terribly condescending to the point of arrogance. You have judged people and you have condemned entire religions. Heed you own advice, and don't cite the speck in someone else's eye when you have a plank in your own.

Would you say this to Moses? I'm no Moses, but God said through Moses:

DESTROY ALL OTHER GODS, AND THEIR PEOPLES.

Judaism is the ONLY true religion. Sorry, but, I'm being honest with you.

I think you may also misunderstand Matthew 7:

Plank: Not trusting Jesus
Speck: Christians have them in their eyes

 

[BilliardsBall]

Now YOU are avoiding what the text says:

Psalms 2: 7I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you.

Not a "son of David." David. Is there a problem?

I was quoting the 110th Psalm and you are shifting the goal posts to Psalm 2, which has a Son BEGOTTEN on a particular DAY.

The Son is eternal, His body was begotten in His resurrection.

It does sound like you are saying Messiah will be born of a woman when He comes...

 

[metis]

Would you say this to Moses? I'm no Moses, but God said through Moses:

DESTROY ALL OTHER GODS, AND THEIR PEOPLES.

Judaism is the ONLY true religion. Sorry, but, I'm being honest with you.

I think you may also misunderstand Matthew 7:

Plank: Not trusting Jesus
Speck: Christians have them in their eyes

There's a difference between being "honest" versus being "opinionated" and "judgmental". So, are you willing to "DESTROY ALL OTHER GODS, AND THEIR PEOPLES.", especially the latter?

 

[rosends]

I was quoting the 110th Psalm and you are shifting the goal posts to Psalm 2, which has a Son BEGOTTEN on a particular DAY.

The Son is eternal, His body was begotten in His resurrection.

It does sound like you are saying Messiah will be born of a woman when He comes...

Psalm 110 doesn't identify anyone. I gave you a Psalm which does identify a son and you want to avoid it. So noted. And, yes, the Messiah will be born of a woman when he comes in the future.

 

[Jabar]

Allah S.W.A.T

 

[1AOA1]

Allah, Yahweh, or Jehovah. Which one and why?

A person's god doesn't change just because the text they're reading refers to that life as Vishnu instead of Allah, or Zeus instead of Thor.

 

[Jabar]

A person's god doesn't change just because the text they're reading refers to that life as Vishnu instead of Allah, or Zeus instead of Thor.

It does change because they are not actually, the true God is Allah, and yes if people don't associate anyone with God and believes he is All-Mighty, Just, All-Knowing and all that then they do believe in Allah. It is better to call God, Allah because it prevents people from associating people with God, other ''gods'' have been made and were known to done things that is not what the TRUE God would do.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If Jesus were merely a man, whether prophet or not, then He does not have the authority to negate the verbal Torah, ie the Pharisees would be correct in disagreeing with Jesus. The type of situation you seem to be inferring, actually does not work within the Hebraic/Judaic paradigm. A manifestation of Deity, however, does work, it means that Jesus is the form of God, therefore has the authority to modify the Judaic statutes. Jewish belief does not have ''middlemen'', that is strictly against teaching; hence, what you are stating is basically impossible, and some form of polytheism. What the Europeans did get correct, was the notion that Xianity was a monotheistic religion, the position they still maintain.

Jesus does not have to be a "mere man" to be the Son of God. His "Father gave Him" the authority to which now his son can speak for him.

Speaking as an image or representative of the Father is very different than coming as the Father himself.

That and Jesus as man flows well with the Torah. Like Moses, he still was a messanger ans had the authority of god, etc. Once you make jesus a god, then it splits. Jesus never thought of himself as the father. The context in many verses and other verses directly state otherwise.

Why does he have to be a "mere man" if he is human?

The prophets where not mere men nor were the apostles. I think Muslim and Jews give more respect to the. (ex apostles to judaism) than christians do. Even with Mary being "just a vessel".

Out of the two, I would say neither. In abrahamic monotheism there is only one creator. Take away the Quran, Torah, and Bible, does the creator not exist?

Is he the same now that there is no division between defining who god is? Is god's existenced based on these three books?

Take away the language: there is only one creator.

Do Jews, Muslims, and Christians disagree? If so, why?

 

[BilliardsBall]

There's a difference between being "honest" versus being "opinionated" and "judgmental". So, are you willing to "DESTROY ALL OTHER GODS, AND THEIR PEOPLES.", especially the latter?

God is intolerant of some things. Sin needs expiation. There must be sacrifice.

The Tanakh is divinely inspired. In it, God is quite intolerant of false religion.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Psalm 110 doesn't identify anyone. I gave you a Psalm which does identify a son and you want to avoid it. So noted. And, yes, the Messiah will be born of a woman when he comes in the future.

Psalm 110 identifies that King David called his son Lord. How is this possible?

I did not avoid Psalm 2, I discussed it--after you first shifted to it while ignoring my viewpoint. You've also now ignored my comment that Psalm 2 is of a singular Son God begets, not multiple sons to whom the Word of God has come...

 

[metis]

God is intolerant of some things. Sin needs expiation. There must be sacrifice.

The Tanakh is divinely inspired. In it, God is quite intolerant of false religion.

And so you actually think you can speak for God and that some people should be sacrificed. Unbelievable.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

If I had to pick a monotheist deity to worship it wouldn't be any of those mentioned in the OP. I'd worship Ahura Mazda. Why? A number of reasons:

1. Ahura Mazda is consistent (or at least he is portrayed in Zoroastrian scripture in a consistent manner).
2. He gives us the ability to make choices and respects our choices - unlike the three gods mentioned in the OP. Indeed, the freedom to choose is one of the most important aspects of Mazda-worship. In the Venidad section of the Avesta, Ahura Mazda asks a man called Yima to be his prophet and bearer of his Law. Yima refuses, explaining that he is not fit for such a role; Mazda accepts his decision and does not seek to blackmail or threaten him for it. Instead, he asks Yima to be a force of creation in the world; for Yima be the best person that Yima can be.
3. Ahura Mazda, unlike at least two of the three, is a just god. He doesn't intend to punish us eternally for the finite 'crime' of using the choices he gave us the ability to make to choose not to worship him or follow his Law.
4. He isn't all-powerful - thus he's far more approachable for mankind. Indeed, greater emphasis is not placed upon how much power the god has; what is more important is how he uses that power.
5. Ahura Mazda treats humans as companions; fellows in his fight against Regressive Mind. We are not his slaves or subjects.

 

[1AOA1]

It does change because they are not actually, the true God is Allah, and yes if people don't associate anyone with God and believes he is All-Mighty, Just, All-Knowing and all that then they do believe in Allah. It is better to call God, Allah because it prevents people from associating people with God, other ''gods'' have been made and were known to done things that is not what the TRUE God would do.

Text 1: Right hand is Rhd-Vishnu
Text 2: Right hand is Rhd-Yahweh
Text 1: Raise Rhd-Vishnu
Text 2: Raise Rhd-Yahweh.
The reader raises right hand in both cases. The person's right hand doesn't change based on the text read.

Text 1: God is Vishnu
Text 2: God is Yahweh
Text 1: Praise Vishnu
Text 2: Praise Yahweh
The reader references the life in their actions as god in both cases. The person's god doesn't change based on the text read.

 

[Jabar]

Text 1: Right hand is Rhd-Vishnu
Text 2: Right hand is Rhd-Yahweh
Text 1: Raise Rhd-Vishnu
Text 2: Raise Rhd-Yahweh.
The reader raises right hand in both cases. The person's right hand doesn't change based on the text read.

Text 1: God is Vishnu
Text 2: God is Yahweh
Text 1: Praise Vishnu
Text 2: Praise Yahweh
The reader references the life in their actions as god in both cases. The person's god doesn't change based on the text read.

I said it changes when they associate it with humans with the true God, Allah that we believe in and when they do things that are not what God would have done. They are man made and thought of as ''gods'' however when knowing the truth you will find them to be fabricated and unreal in the context of what society puts them as.

 

[rosends]

Psalm 110 identifies that King David called his son Lord. How is this possible?

I did not avoid Psalm 2, I discussed it--after you first shifted to it while ignoring my viewpoint. You've also now ignored my comment that Psalm 2 is of a singular Son God begets, not multiple sons to whom the Word of God has come...

King David called his son Lord? Where do you get that?
"Of David a psalm. The word of the Lord to my master; "Wait for My right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool at your feet."" The word "son" isn't even in there. You are inventing that. And you have ignored Psalm 2 aside from saying that the identified person is begotten on a particular day. People who are begotten are, indeed, begotten on a particular day. That's how "begotten" works. Psalm 2 indicates that David was the singular begotten son. It doesn't say anything about a God. You invent that as well. Exodus 4:22 is also written in the singular BTW.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Actually, Ezra 1:2 says; “This is what King Cyrus of Persia says, ‘Jehovah the God of the heavens has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has commissioned me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah."
Some 200 years before his birth, Jehovah prophesied through Isaiah that this would occur, and mentioned Cyrus by name. (Isaiah 45:1-6) Though Cyrus apparently never worshipped Jehovah, I believe Jehovah used Cyrus to accomplish his purpose to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. In my opinion, a remarkable prophecy was fulfilled in Cyrus in every detail.

It's important to remember that the account of Cyrus setting the Jews free was written by Jews, for Jews, so it will be written through the lens of Jewish culture. If it had been the Greeks writing they'd have more than likely said that Cyrus was told something similar by Zeus.

I was actually being quite lighthearted, but it just means that the Bible is inaccurate. It has Cyrus say these things about Yahweh, and proclaim that Yahweh has told him these things; but in reality we know Cyrus had never worshipped a God of this name and was a Zoroastrian, so he would not have said these things. Either way, he gave the Jews the right to go back to their homeland and rebuild their temple. I like that.

Actually he probably wasn't a Zoroastrian because he recognises the existence of multiple deities and the validity of their cults. The Cyrus cylinder accredits him saying:

"I am Cyrus, king of the world, great king, mighty king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters, the son of Cambyses, great king, king of Anšan, grandson of Cyrus, great king, king of Anšan, descendant of Teispes, great king, king of Anšan, of an eternal line of kingship, whose rule Bêl and Nabu love, whose kingship they desire for their hearts' pleasure. When I entered Babylon in a peaceful manner, I took up my lordly abode in the royal palace amidst rejoicing and happiness. Marduk, the great lord, established as his fate for me a magnanimous heart of one who loves Babylon, and I daily attended to his worship.

"From [Babylon] to Aššur and (from) Susa, Agade, Ešnunna, Zamban, Me-Turnu, Der, as far as the region of Gutium, the sacred centers on the other side of the Tigris, whose sanctuaries had been abandoned for a long time, I returned the images of the gods, who had resided there, to their places and I let them dwell in eternal abodes. I gathered all their inhabitants and returned to them their dwellings. In addition, at the command of Marduk, the great lord, I settled in their habitations, in pleasing abodes, the gods of Sumer and Akkad, whom Nabonidus, to the anger of the lord of the gods, had brought into Babylon."

"May all the gods whom I settled in their sacred centers ask daily of Bêl and Nâbu that my days be long and may they intercede for my welfare. … The people of Babylon blessed my kingship, and I settled all the lands in peaceful abodes."

All of those are from the Cyrus cylinder (translation can be found here http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/cyrus_cylinder2.html )

So from the looks of things, Cyrus kept faith with some of the old gods of the Persian Empire and conquered peoples - specifically Marduk, and possibly Bel and Nabu as well.