Am I saved if I have a different biblical interpretation of the oneness of God?

[exchemist]

I understand your feelings, but I still want to understand the Christians who fell this way.

Yes, I can understand that.

 

[Windwalker]

Although I believe the social aspect is likely included, I am interested in the "going to heaven" aspect of being saved, which I believe many Christians also believe.

I understand your frustration. I also am interested in understanding Christians who believe I am not saved.

But most Christians view heaven as a place to go and be with God after you die. But is that salvation? Isn't salvation supposed to be reconciliation with God? Is it something you get when you die, or is it rather something in this life where you are both knowing, seeing, and walking with God here while alive?

Does saved, mean you are saved, reconciled with the Divine, a Realization here and now, or is a "bus ticket" you get to use when you die to go somewhere nice later on? To me, calling anything less than than an actual realization in this life, is kind of pointless. Why is God something we get after death, and not here and now?

 

[Inquire of God]

I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.

Because they "think" and it does not matter what they "think" they don't get to decide on the matter and having judged like that, become subject to judgment themselves, every one who believes that.
I used to be a Baptist after I had been raised as a non-member JW. I never heard anyone ever talk about this in church, ever. If I had it might have made me prejudiced against my current religion.

It actually does not matter what religion a person is, all will be saved. Period. "For God so loved the *WORLD* that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

We believe in Him, that is the way it is.

 

[Kenny]

My understanding of the doctrine taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that everyone will one day know God and the truth, no more faith or guessing. Everyone will have the opportunity to accept salvation by Jesus Christ or reject it. If they accept it they will go to heaven. If they reject it they will not. Everyone vacillates and negotiates our own path, and I am thankful that the Lord has been patient with my vacillations. Most likely your sister will continue to choose Jesus Christ and will therefore be saved.

OK...

She hasn't vacillated in her faith in Jesus Christ.... My question was more along the lines if one doesn't accept the teachings of Joseph Smith... if there are consequences. I knew about above but haven't asked her about the specifics on believing in Joseph Smith.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.

I’m unsure a little of your question so I’ll just make a humble attempt. I believe we can all be at one with God insomuch as belief? But the relationship Jesus had with God as a Prophet was unique and beyond human comprehension as it involved receiving direct revelations from God which I believe ordinary human beings are incapable of which is why God raises Prophets.

As for judgement on being saved. Who’s to know? I believe and act the best I can but does that entitle me to automatic salvation? I think when I die, my life will be replayed to me and I myself will see whether it was a failure or not and either rejoice or be full of despair.

I believe, only my personal opinion, that one of the ‘major ingredients’ to being ‘saved’, that is accepted at the threshold of God, is to accept whatever God has decreed.

God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does, I believe expect us to accept His Messengers whenever He sends Them and Christ wasn’t the only One.

So just having accepted Christ is, I believe a great step forward but what of other Messengers God has sent? Do we say they are false just like Christ was accused?

So I believe that we cannot be ‘saved’ or win God’s good pleasure unless and until we accept all the Messengers He has sent to humanity not just Jesus. And there have been a few after Jesus.

 

[Andrew Reil]

oh yeah, sounds good.
Or something like the garden, too. Maybe that word had a meaning of its own. I'm not sure here.
However, it sounds nice to me!

I want to understand others beliefs.

 

[Andrew Reil]

Why are you looking to others whose beliefs you don't accept anyway for validation?

I want to understand others beliefs.

 

[Andrew Reil]

Welcome to RF Andrew,

Answer to your question:
IMO, the only reason for this is, that they were taught to think this way. No pure (non-judgmental) human being would normally think like this.

Normally we easier understand how others think, if we think in a similar way like they think

Question:
Can I conclude from this, that you never think that "other Christians" aren't (won't be) saved?
("other Christians", as in other denominations; e.g. different from yours)

I believe, and my church teaches, that they will be saved, in that they will go to heaven.

 

[Andrew Reil]

Maybe we should ask what it really means to be "saved". Jesus said he will return to earth to judge the livivg and the dead. Those who are worthly will gain entry into his kingdom. Those who are not worthy will be thrown into the lake of fire. So then, those who are worthy with be "saved" from the lake of fire. No one will really know if they are saved or not until that day comes and they are found worhty of the kingdom and are therefor "saved". Basically no one is saved yet because they have not been judged.

True, but some Christians believe they are saved if they have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. It is why those Christian do not believe I'm saved that I want to understand.

 

[Andrew Reil]

Which Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4? In deed God the Father and Jesus Christ are distinct Persons. But they are the one and the same God. John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5-6; 1 John 5:9-13; 2 John 1:9.

OK, thanks for your insight.

 

[Andrew Reil]

I can't say who personally is saved, or who personally won't be, since Jesus said, it is those that endure to the end, who will be saved - Matthew 24:13.

However, the door is still opened for many to be saved, and we do at times have a change of heart, and understanding, and find the path to life. 2 peter 3:9
Jesus said, there are only two roads - Matthew 7:13, 14.
God has made it possible for us to find that road, and be saved - 1 Timothy 2:4.

So, based on the fact that we have time to gain an accurate knowledge of the truth, and endure on the narrow road to life, there are many who are still on the broad road to destruction, who can get off of it, and follow the narrow road to life, and be saved.

Some people think the the broad road to destruction are only filled with Atheists, skeptics, and non-Christian religious people, but from what Jesus said at Matthew 7:21-23, this is not the case.
So, one can be following a "Christian" religion, and still be on the broad road to destruction.

Evidently, from what we read in the scriptures, many of these will not be saved, simply because while they believe they belong to Christ, and believe Jesus is their lord, that is not the case, and they will lose their lives for that.

Those who die in ignorance, are not writen off, simply because they sincerely were misled (they get another opportunity - Acts 24:15), but some ignorant ones are destroyed, because though ignorant, it was wilful ignorance, due to not wanting to submit to following the commands of Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9.

Romans 10:15-17 shows how persons are being saved.

Maybe it's only one sect of Christians who believe that salvation comes from confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior? Born Again? Maybe other Christians would believe that I would be saved if I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and endure to the end, despite being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Do you think that's correct?

 

[Andrew Reil]

But most Christians view heaven as a place to go and be with God after you die. But is that salvation? Isn't salvation supposed to be reconciliation with God? Is it something you get when you die, or is it rather something in this life where you are both knowing, seeing, and walking with God here while alive?

Does saved, mean you are saved, reconciled with the Divine, a Realization here and now, or is a "bus ticket" you get to use when you die to go somewhere nice later on? To me, calling anything less than than an actual realization in this life, is kind of pointless. Why is God something we get after death, and not here and now?

Good point. I believe that those who go to heaven do so because they have reconciled with God. Yes people can (and should) reconcile with God during this life, but even people who do are interested in living with God in the next life.

 

[Inquire of God]

OK...

She hasn't vacillated in her faith in Jesus Christ.... My question was more along the lines if one doesn't accept the teachings of Joseph Smith... if there are consequences. I knew about above but haven't asked her about the specifics on believing in Joseph Smith.

I did not see this get answered and I would like to do that.
We do not "believe" in the Prophet Joseph Smith anymore than any other Christian "believes" in the Apostle Peter.
We believe in Jesus Christ and ONLY in Jesus Christ, God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
We accept Joseph Smith as a true Prophet and we follow his revelations the same way any other Christian follows the revelations of Paul or John or James or Isaiah, which we also follow.
If a person does not accept the revelations of Joseph Smith, there will be consequences, but we believe this the same way any other Christian believes that those who reject the teachings of other Prophets, as noted above, will encounter consequences.
We still believe that those people will go to heaven and they might go to the highest order of heaven.
But, that is another topic.

 

[Andrew Reil]

Because they "think" and it does not matter what they "think" they don't get to decide on the matter and having judged like that, become subject to judgment themselves, every one who believes that.
I used to be a Baptist after I had been raised as a non-member JW. I never heard anyone ever talk about this in church, ever. If I had it might have made me prejudiced against my current religion.

It actually does not matter what religion a person is, all will be saved. Period. "For God so loved the *WORLD* that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

We believe in Him, that is the way it is.

Yes I feel that way also personally.

I still want to understand Christians who feel that I am not saved.

I do not wish to argue or judge them, I simply want to understand.

 

[Andrew Reil]

OK...

She hasn't vacillated in her faith in Jesus Christ.... My question was more along the lines if one doesn't accept the teachings of Joseph Smith... if there are consequences. I knew about above but haven't asked her about the specifics on believing in Joseph Smith.

I believe that all things, including everything about Joseph Smith, will be revealed at the judgement bar. No one will wonder, guess, or just have faith at that point. Then, with a full understanding, she gets to choose, does she want Christ and heaven or not.

 

[Kenny]

I did not see this get answered and I would like to do that.
We do not "believe" in the Prophet Joseph Smith anymore than any other Christian "believes" in the Apostle Peter.
We believe in Jesus Christ and ONLY in Jesus Christ, God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
We accept Joseph Smith as a true Prophet and we follow his revelations the same way any other Christian follows the revelations of Paul or John or James or Isaiah, which we also follow.
If a person does not accept the revelations of Joseph Smith, there will be consequences, but we believe this the same way any other Christian believes that those who reject the teachings of other Prophets, as noted above, will encounter consequences.
We still believe that those people will go to heaven and they might go to the highest order of heaven.
But, that is another topic.

Thanks!

 

[Andrew Reil]

I’m unsure a little of your question so I’ll just make a humble attempt. I believe we can all be at one with God insomuch as belief? But the relationship Jesus had with God as a Prophet was unique and beyond human comprehension as it involved receiving direct revelations from God which I believe ordinary human beings are incapable of which is why God raises Prophets.

As for judgement on being saved. Who’s to know? I believe and act the best I can but does that entitle me to automatic salvation? I think when I die, my life will be replayed to me and I myself will see whether it was a failure or not and either rejoice or be full of despair.

I believe, only my personal opinion, that one of the ‘major ingredients’ to being ‘saved’, that is accepted at the threshold of God, is to accept whatever God has decreed.

God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does, I believe expect us to accept His Messengers whenever He sends Them and Christ wasn’t the only One.

So just having accepted Christ is, I believe a great step forward but what of other Messengers God has sent? Do we say they are false just like Christ was accused?

So I believe that we cannot be ‘saved’ or win God’s good pleasure unless and until we accept all the Messengers He has sent to humanity not just Jesus. And there have been a few after Jesus.

Thank-you. It's also good to understand what the faith-path you belong to believes.

 

[Kenny]

I believe that all things, including everything about Joseph Smith, will be revealed at the judgement bar. No one will wonder, guess, or just have faith at that point. Then, with a full understanding, she gets to choose, does she want Christ and heaven or not.

That's not a problem.... she has already chosen Christ. She currently is a worship leader at a church.

 

[Inquire of God]

Yes I feel that way also personally.

I still want to understand Christians who feel that I am not saved.

I do not wish to argue or judge them, I simply want to understand.

They don't have any reason to believe or feel this way, they try to use scripture to back up this false assertion, but it is bogus all the way to the bone. We believe in Jesus Christ, we emphatically say so, we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, we do everything we do in His name, the Church is in His name.
This is a recent development by those who are trying to slow the growth of the Church or who have relationships with those who murdered the early Latter-Day Saints.
It's an insult and a fabrication, they know it, but they think it is okay to continue to push this nonsense forward. It was not like this, publicly, just a few years ago, I never heard about this until the 1980s and it has been very damaging to the Church in some ways, but has helped the Church grow in other ways, because they cannot stop the fact that when they talk about the Church SOME people are going to earnestly check us out.
And you have to wonder why some who preach to believe in Jesus Christ would single us out like this in light of Mark 9:40 and Luke 9:50. Like they have singled us out on the DNA question, which is now throwing them to the curb.
It's like they don't even read their own scriptures, actually know what we teach or can't refrain from making things up to try to keep their people from leaving their congregations.
This is not judgment on my part, I am from their side of the fence. This is not me arguing, these are the facts.

 

[Deeje]

Thank-you. These all all good points, and I believe these scriptures.

I also want to understand why some Christian's believe the way they do about my not being saved.

Judging another's salvation, unless it is very apparent that these ones are going against the teachings of the Christ, is not what we are asked to do. As Christians we are asked to preach the kingdom to all who will listen and let God do the evaluation of their response. He will either "draw" that person or he will let them keep their delusion. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) He has no need to force anyone to believe anything against their will. What we choose as our truth will be what is in our own hearts.

The churches of Christendom are MIA when it comes to the preaching work that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples. Preaching to the converted is not what he told them to do.....

Matthew 28:19-20 is a commission...a command...not just a recommendation.
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

In my experience, growing up in Christendom, it is very obvious that these "Christians" have no idea what the Kingdom of God is....and what its purpose is for mankind. If you ask a dozen people from different denominations or even in the same denomination, they are hard pressed to define it in simple terms....and yet Jesus said...."And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
This message was to be a "witness to all the nations" so that no one would be able to say..."no one told me about God's Kingdom". It was only after preaching the message was fully accomplished that "the end" would come.

Jesus mentioned a conclusion of a system of things....or an "end" of the age.....what do you think he meant?