Amazing Fibonacci Numbers

[Deeje]

All of the questions you sarcastically asked could be answered if you'd pick up a basic high school science text. So sad that you don't even comprehend what the scientific method is, even as you disparage it. The exact same scientific method that supports the theory that the Earth orbits around the sun is the exact same scientific method that supports the ToE. The exact same scientific method that supports the atomic theories upon which your computing device works is the exact same scientific method that supports the ToE.

Oh dear! Is that what they taught you? You honestly believe that the same methods are used to prove that the earth orbits the sun as the ones that suggest that amoebas became dinosaurs after a few million years? I'm sorry, but that is just plain nonsense IMO.

There is a big difference between true, provable science and unproven theory.

According to Wiki...."Typically for any theory to be accepted within most academia there is one simple criterion. The essential criterion is that the theory must be observable and repeatable. The aforementioned criterion is essential to prevent fraud and perpetuate science itself."

That being the case, the criteria supports adaptation, but there is no way it can support macro-evolution, which is not observable or repeatable. Fraud abounds...and it is making fools out of scientists who carry on about macro-evolution being a fact, when there is nothing in their own criteria that proves it.

If all of the people who actually do understand how the scientific method works were to suddenly die off, folks like you would be back in the stone age within a generation or two.

Wow!....you mean we would have to rely on the Creator to teach us how to care for the earth and each other...? Would that be such a bad thing?

What has science given the world?

All hail science....

You can give me a world without science any day. We did without it for thousands of years......tell me how the world is better off with what it has left in its wake.

 

[Polymath257]

Humans invented mathematics?

Sure they did.

Mathematics does indeed do what it is "DESIGNED" to do......it suggests a superior intelligence is the mastermind behind all of it.

Mathematics is a *language* that humans invented and use to help them deal with the real world (like most languages).

It is a language *designed* by humans to help them talk about geometric and numerical patterns.

But there is no number '2' in the real world. There are no perfect squares. These are fictions invented by humans, idealizations that help us keep track of our thoughts.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Oh dear! Is that what they taught you? You honestly believe that the same methods are used to prove that the earth orbits the sun as the ones that suggest that amoebas became dinosaurs after a few million years? I'm sorry, but that is just plain nonsense IMO.

There is a big difference between true, provable science and unproven theory.

According to Wiki...."Typically for any theory to be accepted within most academia there is one simple criterion. The essential criterion is that the theory must be observable and repeatable. The aforementioned criterion is essential to prevent fraud and perpetuate science itself."

That being the case, the criteria supports adaptation, but there is no way it can support macro-evolution, which is not observable or repeatable. Fraud abounds...and it is making fools out of scientists who carry on about macro-evolution being a fact, when there is nothing in their own criteria that proves it.



Wow!....you mean we would have to rely on the Creator to teach us how to care for the earth and each other...? Would that be such a bad thing?

What has science given the world?

All hail science....

You can give me a world without science any day. We did without it for thousands of years......tell me how the world is better off with what it has left in its wake.

"Oh dear! Is that what they taught you?"

Yep, that's what they were teaching in actual science class while you were apparently sleeping. Anyone who stayed awake and learned something reads your posts and realizes how truly ignorant you are on the subject.

Let's just take one of your ridiculous claims. The theory of evolution can NEVER be considered valid because we've never actually witnessed one species evolve into another over millions of years. By that moronic logic the theory that the Earth orbits the sun can NEVER be considered valid because we have never actually witnessed the Earth orbiting the sun. Yet, people with only a modicum of intelligence accept that the Earth DOES orbit the sun, all because the SCIENTIFIC METHOD supports the theory. The scientific method makes predictions, like if in fact the Earth orbits the sun then we should be able to make certain predictions about where the Earth will be in relation to other heavenly bodies at any given time. That's how silly scientists can predict precisely when a solar eclipse will occur. In the ToE the fact that scientists can successfully predict what sorts of fossil records will be uncovered if the ToE is true is just one way that the scientific method supports the ToE. If you were to actually educate yourself instead of choosing to sleep through class, you'd discover tons of similar evidence.

Finally, I find it rather pathetic that you sit within your climate controlled dwelling (made possible by science), with plenty to eat, (made possible by science), inoculated against a host of deadly diseases, (made possible by science), probably destined to live close to twice as long as your ancestors from a couple hundred years ago (made possibly by science), asking what science has given the world.

You're deluded if you think you'd be better off living in ignorance, when people would make human sacrifices to the thunder god because they didn't understand the science behind basic weather phenomenon. In a world without the scientific method, instead of the recent solar eclipse being a moment for humanity to appreciate the natural wonders of the universe, it would have been a time of mass panic and hysteria. A world filled with ignorance is not something to long for.

 

[Mister Silver]

"Oh dear! Is that what they taught you?"

Yep, that's what they were teaching in actual science class while you were apparently sleeping.

Honestly, I think sleeping is precisely what creationists did in science class. It's the only logical explanation.

If they were awake, how did they even pass the class and still not believe in what was taught to them?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Honestly, I think sleeping is precisely what creationists did in science class. It's the only logical explanation.

If they were awake, how did they even pass the class and still not believe in what was taught to them?

And the sad part is that with Google they could still easily educate themselves, but instead they choose willful ignorance.

 

[Mister Silver]

And the sad part is that with Google they could still easily educate themselves, but instead they choose willful ignorance.

And then ironically, they can use Google to search for magical woo.

 

[QuestioningMind]

And then ironically, they can use Google to search for magical woo.

So true.

 

[Deeje]

My goodness! @QuestioningMind @Mister Silver Do you see what you wrote?

You are basically saying that YECreationists are brainwashed and I have to agree with you there. Science has proven that the earth is old and that creatures have been around way longer than a few thousand years. But I am not a YECreationist....I believe in an old earth and a slow and deliberate process of creation over perhaps millions of years. I was not sleeping in science class because I too was once an evolutionist, but the more I studied evolution, the more I realized that there was too much evidence for design for evolution to be true.....how many fortunate coincidences can be possible? But we can see who is brainwashed and who has swallowed the whole deal based on what? "Evidence"......what evidence?

Please provide the evidence that shows conclusively that science is right in its assumption about how life changed from one creature into another. Show us creatures "evolving"....show us "common ancestors"......show us "branching".....show us "transitional fossils"....or any "real evidence" for anything but adaptation.....you credit science with way more evidence than they really have.

I can Google whatever I like, but it doesn't mean that what turns up is the truth....you do understand the difference between "real evidence" and "one biased interpretation" of such....right? Who is really drinking the kool-ade here?
Isn't this the classic example of brainwashed fools accusing others of being brainwashed fools? That is what is truly sad.

 

[Mister Silver]

the more I studied evolution, the more I realized that there was too much evidence for design for evolution to be true.....

So much evidence that intelligent design has been awarded the Nobel Prize. Oh, it hasn't, go figure.

 

[Deeje]

Mathematics is a *language* that humans invented and use to help them deal with the real world (like most languages).

It is a language *designed* by humans to help them talk about geometric and numerical patterns.

That is an interesting explanation Polymath257 but when I learn a language, all I am doing is learning to describe what already is. Creation needs describing too and we have language that interprets human emotions, describes medical conditions, explains psychological issues, and delves into human relationships....without language, we would never be able to convey information at all.

I have a pair of plovers who live on my block. They have hatched out several clutches of eggs and raised quite a few chicks to adulthood over the years that they have taken up residence. Being ground-nesters, the chicks are open to many dangers that nested birds do not encounter. I am amazed that these babies understand the language of their parents, straight out of their eggs. The latest clutch was hatched earlier last week but a hawk was aware of their existence and relentlessly stalked them. As soon as the hawk made its appearance, the parents let our a specific distress cry and took off after the hawk to drive it off in an amazing arial 'dog-fight'. But as soon as the babies heard that cry, they went to ground, crouching down low and lying as still as they could whilst their parents were fighting off the would-be attacker. They blend in so well because of their perfect camouflage that you cannot see them until their parents return and call them. Another special sound then tells them to come to their mother. Unfortunately the hawks skills are better than these valiant parents can overcome, and one by one the chicks have disappeared. I watched in horror as it dived from a great height and snatched one of the babies. What incredible eyesight that hawk must have! Perhaps it had chicks of its own to feed. The plovers will just keep hatching out chicks as instinct tells them to do.

In nature, programming (instinct) is what drives creatures to do what they do to survive and to perpetuate their species.......any program has to have a programmer. That is simple logic. What is completely illogical is to suggest that every complex system in nature is just a fortunate accident....that no intelligence was behind it to bring it into existence, to drive it or to direct it. You are free to believe that of course...but I cannot.

The Fibonacci sequence tells me that an amazing mathematician was at work in designing the natural world with incredible precision. This is no fluke.

But there is no number '2' in the real world. There are no perfect squares. These are fictions invented by humans, idealizations that help us keep track of our thoughts.

Any sane person will look at that statement and tell you that you are talking nonsense. If 1+1 does not equal 2 then I have to ask...."what world do you live in?"

 

[Deeje]

So much evidence that intelligent design has been awarded the Nobel Prize. Oh, it hasn't, go figure.

LOL, you just don't get it do you....? Who awards the Nobel Prize?

 

[Mister Silver]

LOL, you just don't get it do you....? Who awards the Nobel Prize?

Scientists have won the Nobel Prize, so I'm guessing your question is one born of immense sorrow.

 

[Polymath257]

The Fibonacci sequence tells me that an amazing mathematician was at work in designing the natural world with incredible precision. This is no fluke.

The Fibonacci sequence isn't 'amazing mathematics'. It is mostly what is known as 'recreational mathematics'.

Any sane person will look at that statement and tell you that you are talking nonsense. If 1+1 does not equal 2 then I have to ask...."what world do you live in?"

Again, that is more a statement about our use of language and symbols than reality. There are *many* situations where that math doesn't apply. To figure out when it does and when it doesn't takes observation and testing; i.e, science.

For example, if you take 1 quart of water and add 1 quart of alcohol, the result will NOT be 2 quarts of liquid, but slightly less.

 

[QuestioningMind]

My goodness! @QuestioningMind @Mister Silver Do you see what you wrote?

You are basically saying that YECreationists are brainwashed and I have to agree with you there. Science has proven that the earth is old and that creatures have been around way longer than a few thousand years. But I am not a YECreationist....I believe in an old earth and a slow and deliberate process of creation over perhaps millions of years. I was not sleeping in science class because I too was once an evolutionist, but the more I studied evolution, the more I realized that there was too much evidence for design for evolution to be true.....how many fortunate coincidences can be possible? But we can see who is brainwashed and who has swallowed the whole deal based on what? "Evidence"......what evidence?

Please provide the evidence that shows conclusively that science is right in its assumption about how life changed from one creature into another. Show us creatures "evolving"....show us "common ancestors"......show us "branching".....show us "transitional fossils"....or any "real evidence" for anything but adaptation.....you credit science with way more evidence than they really have.

I can Google whatever I like, but it doesn't mean that what turns up is the truth....you do understand the difference between "real evidence" and "one biased interpretation" of such....right? Who is really drinking the kool-ade here?
Isn't this the classic example of brainwashed fools accusing others of being brainwashed fools? That is what is truly sad.

"I can Google whatever I like, but it doesn't mean that what turns up is the truth....you do understand the difference between "real evidence" and "one biased interpretation" of such....right?"

Yes, I DO understand what real evidence is. REAL evidence comes from using the scientific method. It's by using this method that we are able to harness electrons so we can create electricity and computers. It's the scientific method that has enabled us to develop germ theories and create vaccines for diseases. It's the method we've used to determine the theory of continental drift and that the Earth is in fact billions of years old. It's the method we used to come up with the theory that the Earth orbits the sun and enables us to predict marvels like solar eclipses. It's ALSO the EXACT SAME METHOD used to develop the ToE. And it is NOT just evolutionary scientists who claim that they use the same scientific method as all other scientists. Scientists from every other field of science AGREE that the scientific methods used justify the ToE are the EXACT SAME methods that they use in their fields of science. Thus far the scientific method been a remarkably successful method, MUCH more reliable than any other method devised by human beings for determining REAL evidence.

So the next time you visit the vast wasteland that is Google, the first thing you should do when confronted by evidence is to ask: Did they use the SCIENTIFIC METHOD when reaching these conclusions? If the answer is NO, then that greatly decreases the chances that the evidence is accurate. If the answer is YES, that greatly increases the chances that the evidence is valid. There's an ocean of evidence for all of your questions available to you, I've no doubt that you've seen most of it, ALL backed up by the scientific method. You're either too stubborn to acknowledge it or you truly don't grasp how the scientific method works.

You're like someone standing waist deep in water demanding 'evidence' that it's flooding.

 

[QuestioningMind]

LOL, you just don't get it do you....? Who awards the Nobel Prize?

People who are familiar with and who employ the scientific method, the most successful method thus far devised by humans to for determining the reality of how the physical universe works. Who would you suggest award such a prize?

 

[Deeje]

Scientists have won the Nobel Prize, so I'm guessing your question is one born of immense sorrow.

Science has its place, and it's a very important one, but I think we all know that it has attained the status of a 'religion' for many who think that what it teaches must of necessity be true......because they say so. But that is not so with regard to macro-evolution. Any thorough examination of the "evidence" will show that what they deem as "overwhelming" support for the validity of their theory is in reality, no such thing. They are selling you a bill of goods. It is based on the premise that 'if a little is good, a lot must be better'. That has never been proven in this case.

According to Wiki...."Nobel's will specified that annual prizes are to be awarded for service to humanity in the fields of physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature, and peace.....No Nobel Prize was established for mathematics and many other scientific and cultural fields.

No Nobel prizes are therefore awarded to scientist for a theory.....especially one with no real evidence to back it up.

Since it would be scientists who recognize other scientists for their achievements, (or taking the word of other scientists that it even was an achievement) that doesn't necessarily say much for the achievement itself. That would be like Hitler awarding Joseph Mengele a Nobel prize for his accomplishments in medicine.

 

[Deeje]

The Fibonacci sequence isn't 'amazing mathematics'. It is mostly what is known as 'recreational mathematics'.

You cannot make the Fibonacci numbers into something ordinary just by sweeping them under the rug as unimportant. We all see what you are trying to do. They are just as amazing as they appear. Their occurrence in nature is not something you can downgrade as inconsequential.....they are proof of a designer....a mathematical genius.

Again, that is more a statement about our use of language and symbols than reality. There are *many* situations where that math doesn't apply. To figure out when it does and when it doesn't takes observation and testing; i.e, science.

So science gets to tell us what is important in the big scheme of things, whilst ignoring the elephant in the room. He will not be ignored....and you cannot make him disappear.

For example, if you take 1 quart of water and add 1 quart of alcohol, the result will NOT be 2 quarts of liquid, but slightly less.

Riveting.....

 

[Deeje]

You're like someone standing waist deep in water demanding 'evidence' that it's flooding.

Well, I guess we will just have to wait and see who is doing the drowning then, won't we? Lets see what use the "scientific method" will be to you evolutionists when the Creator demands an accounting from his intelligent creatures for what they have done to his earth.

Finally, I find it rather pathetic that you sit within your climate controlled dwelling (made possible by science), with plenty to eat, (made possible by science), inoculated against a host of deadly diseases, (made possible by science), probably destined to live close to twice as long as your ancestors from a couple hundred years ago (made possibly by science), asking what science has given the world.

You think my air con makes up for deadly air pollution?....(definitely created by science).....or the quality of my food grown with artificial fertilizers and laced with pesticides? (with the help of science) Supermarkets make sure that food has such a long shelf life with cold storage, and processing that there is little in the way of actual nutrition left in any of it. That is why so many people today get sick through vitamin and mineral deficiency.....and all thanks to science.

Inoculations or vaccinations? What is the difference? I do not believe that these shots do what they are claimed to do. The flu shots promoted by medical science seem to make people sicker whilst not preventing the very thing they are supposed to prevent. We have just had one of the worst flu seasons on record. The shots were useless.

Vaccinations are linked to an epidemic of autism. Germicides are linked to asthma and many allergies in children as science provides 'protection' from the beneficial germs we need to stay healthy.

And it is true that humans are living longer than their ancestors, but if all they become are useless old bodies taking up space in a nursing home...what is the point? Living longer doesn't mean living better. Its just a cash cow for the pharmaceutical companies.

Saying that you know what "real evidence" is, and then claiming that evolutionary science can produce it, is just ridiculous.

Your view of science and its achievements is highly overrated IMO.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You can't do science !

Science is being done all around you. It is being done without the permission of the religious, who have no standing in the matter, and who play no part.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Good grief man! Where do you think you are? You are an anonymous poster on an Internet forum! Who are these "others elsewhere"? What "academic and professional standards" do you expect in a place like this? Seriously....is this all you atheists know how to do?......elevate yourselves by discrediting the character of your opposition?

"Don't you know who I am" carries no weight here. (Just in case you might not have noticed.)

Are you on drugs, Deeje? If so, please seek help.

The "scientific method" is looking less "scientific" by the day.

Yet the religious method keeps getting more and more religious. Thanks for everything that you and your faith have to offer us.