Ambiguity

[crossfire]

I'd like to explore ambiguity--specifically the different reactions an ambiguous text may bring forth.

I've seen a whole gamut of reactions ranging from joy and delight to downright hostility as a response to an ambiguous phrase or text. Why is this reaction in response to verbal communication, and not to other ambiguous things, like this picture of the Rubin vase, which can be interpreted as a vase or the silhouette of two faces?

Does anyone experience frustration to the visual ambiguity?
What do you think about ambiguity, verbal or otherwise?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Once in a lecture Rabbi Benjamin J. Segal noted that Biblical Hebrew is rich in ambiguity, and that when text is pregnant with multiple possible interpretations there is no reason to assume that the author was unaware of this fact and that the ambiguity was unintended.

 

[Quintessence]

Whether I find ambiguity frustrating depends entirely on the context. Ambiguity in science writing is, for example, completely unacceptable. You must convey your research clearly and precisely at all times, hence science writing has strict standards regarding use of words. Some of this is because the science community is international and translations need to be as clean as possible, but it also because findings become misrepresented (incorrect) when ambiguous language is used. Whenever you need or want to precisely convey specific information, ambiguity is a huge no-no. If you want to communicate A, state A plainly. I get very frustrated when people dance around what they actually want to say with obtuse language in communication, because there's no point to doing so. Ambiguity in language can serve some limited purposes, but by and large, it has no place in everyday conversation and dissemination of information. It's use is in philosophy, mythology, storytelling, the arts, etc. Or, in more nefarious applications, deceit, lying, and manipulation.

 

[idav]

I don't mind ambiguity but what is frustrating to me is that language can't be precise enough cause everyone inevitably interprets differently. Parables and mythology is used to explain things that are hard to express otherwise.

 

[arhys]

Visual ambiguity is fairly simple. The human brain is hardwired from birth to recognize the human face, an evolutionary instinct sometimes called pareidolia. It's why we see the Cydonian mesa of Mars as a giant head. Also explains the Rubin vase.

The discipline of communications classifies ambiguity as a kind of semantic noise that garbles understanding between a "sender" and a "receiver" or an "encoder" and "decoder."

The philisophical school of General Semantics focuses on psychological noise*. Alfred Korzybski was not the first to come up with a map-territory analogy, but it is most often associated with him: "The map–territory relation describes the relationship between an object and a representation of that object, as in the relation between a geographical territory and a map of it. Polish-American scientist and philosopher Alfred Korzybski remarked that "the map is not the territory", encapsulating his view that an abstraction derived from something, or a reaction to it, is not the thing itself."

* "Psychological noise results from preconceived notions we bring to conversations, such as racial stereotypes, reputations, biases, and assumptions."

 

[crossfire]

Once in a lecture Rabbi Benjamin J. Segal noted that Biblical Hebrew is rich in ambiguity, and that when text is pregnant with multiple possible interpretations there is no reason to assume that the author was unaware of this fact and that the ambiguity was unintended.

Tao Te Ching is also full of ambiguity. Zen koans also use ambiguity.

Ambiguity opens new avenues of thinking--"no separation between subject and object" leads to process philosophy and systems thinking. How you handle ambiguity helps you to learn more about yourself and your own mind.

 

[crossfire]

Visual ambiguity is fairly simple. The human brain is hardwired from birth to recognize the human face, an evolutionary instinct sometimes called pareidolia. It's why we see the Cydonian mesa of Mars as a giant head. Also explains the Rubin vase.

The discipline of communications classifies ambiguity as a kind of semantic noise that garbles understanding between a "sender" and a "receiver" or an "encoder" and "decoder."

The philisophical school of General Semantics focuses on psychological noise*. Alfred Korzybski was not the first to come up with a map-territory analogy, but it is most often associated with him: "The map–territory relation describes the relationship between an object and a representation of that object, as in the relation between a geographical territory and a map of it. Polish-American scientist and philosopher Alfred Korzybski remarked that "the map is not the territory", encapsulating his view that an abstraction derived from something, or a reaction to it, is not the thing itself."

* "Psychological noise results from preconceived notions we bring to conversations, such as racial stereotypes, reputations, biases, and assumptions."

Here's another image. The "blue" swirls and the "green" swirls have exactly the same blue-green color in them, but the context of the other colors (orange and magenta) make us think they are different. I have seen some negative reactions to this image.

 

[Desert Snake]

It's use is in philosophy, mythology, storytelling, the arts, etc.

It's funny how you combined these things together, I wouldn't.

Or, in more nefarious applications, deceit, lying, and manipulation.

How. ambiguity is "nefarious"? How can it be, it's not presenting a viewpoint either way.

 

[Desert Snake]

Tao Te Ching is also full of ambiguity. Zen koans also use ambiguity.

Ambiguity opens new avenues of thinking--"no separation between subject and object" leads to process philosophy and systems thinking. How you handle ambiguity helps you to learn more about yourself and your own mind.

This is nonsense.

 

[crossfire]

Tao Te Ching is also full of ambiguity. Zen koans also use ambiguity.

Ambiguity opens new avenues of thinking--"no separation between subject and object" leads to process philosophy and systems thinking. How you handle ambiguity helps you to learn more about yourself and your own mind.

This is nonsense.

Please expand.

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm more likely to react to alleged certainty. Ambiguity can be more challenging and promote thinking. Reality is nuanced, so let us dance to that rhythm.

 

[LuisDantas]

Ambiguity usually exasperates the bacon out of me, since it makes so much of our communication pointless or even counterproductive.

It helps that it is also the vital blood of the very existence of Law as an actual profession. I don't have a lot of sympathy to spare for that activity.

A third reason is because it is so often used in politics, humor and religious practice to cause a delusional feeling of inclusion and unified purpose when there is none. That leads to colossal amounts of waste, hurt and loss of years of life.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm more likely to react to alleged certainty. Ambiguity can be more challenging and promote thinking. Reality is nuanced, so let us dance to that rhythm.

Just as a reminder, certainty is the opposite of doubt, not of ambiguity.

Ambiguity is the opposite of clarity, which is rarely a bad thing.

 

[crossfire]

Just as a reminder, certainty is the opposite of doubt, not of ambiguity.

Ambiguity is the opposite of clarity, which is rarely a bad thing.

I would say that vagueness is the opposite of clarity.

Ambiguity can point towards different possibilities, and can reinforce interconnectivity through the importance of context/environment in regards to the different possibilities expressed through the ambiguous presentation.

 

[Secret Chief]

Just as a reminder, certainty is the opposite of doubt, not of ambiguity.

Ambiguity is the opposite of clarity, which is rarely a bad thing.

I think they are inter-related though, but accept your point. No wish to smoke your bacon Luis!

 

[Secret Chief]

A third reason is because it is so often used in politics, humor and religious practice to cause a delusional feeling of inclusion and unified purpose when there is none. That leads to colossal amounts of waste, hurt and loss of years of life.

Humour leads to this?

(not sure about the religious practice either really!)

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm more likely to react to alleged certainty. Ambiguity can be more challenging and promote thinking. Reality is nuanced, so let us dance to that rhythm.

It depends on the situation, on forums generally I don't think ambiguity is a good thing, the whole nature of the internet and how people interact on it is ambiguous enough, making ambiguous statemments, posts beyond this takes you from ambiguity to nonsense, meaninglessness.

 

[crossfire]

Tao Te Ching is also full of ambiguity. Zen koans also use ambiguity.

Ambiguity opens new avenues of thinking--"no separation between subject and object" leads to process philosophy and systems thinking. How you handle ambiguity helps you to learn more about yourself and your own mind.

This is nonsense.

Please expand.

Still waiting for your expansion.

 

[Desert Snake]

Still waiting

Stating that those texts are ambiguous is nonsense, it means you aren't understanding it, IMO.

Beyond that, whatever

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Stating that those texts are ambiguous is nonsense, it means you aren't understanding it, IMO.

Beyond that, whatever

Or perhaps the lack of understanding is yours?

"Paradoxes and ambiguity are essential to Taoist philosophy. With an appreciation of the purpose and use of these paradoxes, Taoism can be understood in greater depth." - source​