American Library Association reports record requests for book bans.

[F1fan]

While the right hates everybody who is different, the real target of these actions are always "the libs". It's their reactions they want to see even when they hurt others.

I think this action by conservatives, among other things like voter suppression, is a passive aggressive reaction to republicans losing favor among citizens. The Republicans tyook the House, barely, but republicans all over the USA are facing rejection, and like any other gilted lover they are pissed off at the citizens of the USA, and using their authority like any abusive husband would, to inflict pain. The irony here is that these extremist actions will lose them more moderate voters while only serving their base who are already committed. I think republicans doing this is a sort of "dark night of the soul" for America and we have yet to hit bottom. I suspect the elections of 2024 will be very contentious, and Trump likely pulling out all the stops as he faces indictment and trials. McCarthy and DeSantis have popularity but not the loyalty, only Trump has that. As Trump goes down I think we can expect more violence, and "hit bottom" moment for America.

 

[F1fan]

No, that's not what I said. Furthermore the shelf space itself is a limited resource. Plus the overhead to put into the circulation system. So even a "free" donated book costs the library.

So given you point out that these banned books are available online, do you support teachers assigning these banned books to students and they will have to access them online? Do you support this freedom for teachers to teach?

 

[Jose Fly]

So we can't do anything about their IQ. What can we do about their attitudes and behavior besides not condone it? Can they help it?

I honestly don't know. I've read a fair bit about the psychology behind fundamentalism, but none of what I read gave any suggestions on how to change them.

 

[Orbit]

I honestly don't know. I've read a fair bit about the psychology behind fundamentalism, but none of what I read gave any suggestions on how to change them.

Street epistemology (see youtube) is an attempt to get them to change their views. Just an FYI in case you hadn't heard of it.

 

[Jose Fly]

Street epistemology (see youtube) is an attempt to get them to change their views. Just an FYI in case you hadn't heard of it.

Yeah, I've seen some of those. It's pretty interesting to watch (if you have the time), but my impression was that it tends to mostly work on people who, while they may be in a fundamentalist church, don't really share some of the defining psychological traits of fundamentalists. They seem to be actually open to questioning, new info, and seeing things from a different perspective, which most fundamentalists aren't.

 

[Jose Fly]

I think this action by conservatives, among other things like voter suppression, is a passive aggressive reaction to republicans losing favor among citizens. The Republicans tyook the House, barely, but republicans all over the USA are facing rejection, and like any other gilted lover they are pissed off at the citizens of the USA, and using their authority like any abusive husband would, to inflict pain. The irony here is that these extremist actions will lose them more moderate voters while only serving their base who are already committed. I think republicans doing this is a sort of "dark night of the soul" for America and we have yet to hit bottom. I suspect the elections of 2024 will be very contentious, and Trump likely pulling out all the stops as he faces indictment and trials. McCarthy and DeSantis have popularity but not the loyalty, only Trump has that. As Trump goes down I think we can expect more violence, and "hit bottom" moment for America.

That's a very good point, and one I've been thinking about for a while now.

IMO, a lot of what we see is due to Republicans realizing they've lost the youth. Gen Z's and younger Millennials are very, very diverse, tolerant, and liberal, and it's making conservatives extremely angry. So of course for them, there must be someone to blame. And if you listen to right-wing talk radio and read their news sites, it's pretty clear that they blame public schools, universities, and professors. In Republican world, the reason kids are so open, tolerant, and liberal is because they've been "indoctrinated" by all those bad actors. So we're seeing their reaction....get all the gay, uppity racial stuff, "wokeism", etc. out of schools, which apparently they believe will turn all the kids back to good ol' fashioned Christian conservatives.

Of course they're very off base with all that. It's not the teachers or professors....it's the fact that those generations are the most connected and aware generations in history. No other generation has grown up being able to see and interact with their peers across the world like this one. They don't need professors or teachers to tell them that queer folks are just like any other group of people who merely want to live freely and in peace, they're able to hear that from LGBTQ's directly! The same is true of people of different races, ethnicities, and all sorts of backgrounds.

Simply put, the conservatives are fighting a losing battle. The world is connected and we're all interacting with each other...can't put that genie back in the bottle no matter how hard you try (unless of course you go full N. Korea).

And the funny thing for me is how clueless conservatives are about how, if they ban teaching about things like the Tulsa massacre or try and whitewash the Rosa Parks story, in today's internet age all that does is get people to talk about those things even more, which is exactly the opposite of the conservatives' goal. They really didn't learn anything from the "satanic panic" days, did they?

 

[F1fan]

That's a very good point, and one I've been thinking about for a while now.

IMO, a lot of what we see is due to Republicans realizing they've lost the youth. Gen Z's and younger Millennials are very, very diverse, tolerant, and liberal, and it's making conservatives extremely angry. So of course for them, there must be someone to blame. And if you listen to right-wing talk radio and read their news sites, it's pretty clear that they blame public schools, universities, and professors. In Republican world, the reason kids are so open, tolerant, and liberal is because they've been "indoctrinated" by all those bad actors. So we're seeing their reaction....get all the gay, uppity racial stuff, "wokeism", etc. out of schools, which apparently they believe will turn all the kids back to good ol' fashioned Christian conservatives.

Of course they're very off base with all that. It's not the teachers or professors....it's the fact that those generations are the most connected and aware generations in history. No other generation has grown up being able to see and interact with their peers across the world like this one. They don't need professors or teachers to tell them that queer folks are just like any other group of people who merely want to live freely and in peach, they're able to hear that from LGBTQ's directly! The same is true of people of different races, ethnicities, and all sorts of backgrounds.

Simply put, the conservatives are fighting a losing battle. The world is connected and we're all interacting with each other...can't put that genie back in the bottle no matter how hard you try (unless of course you go full N. Korea).

And the funny thing for me is how clueless conservatives are about how, if they ban teaching about things like the Tulsa massacre or try and whitewash the Rosa Parks story, in today's internet age all that does is get people to talk about those things even more, which is exactly the opposite of the conservatives' goal. They really didn't learn anything from the "satanic panic" days, did they?

Good points. I have to wonder what next steps republicans will do as these draconian measures fail and create backlash. My guess is harder restrictions on voting and using whatever means they can in red states to prevent democrats from winning. If they can get congress they can pass all sorts of laws, and then they need a president. But can they win in 2024 in a fair election? Will there be more attempts to sabotage the process as Trump tried to do in 2021? Biden is the watchdog for democracy. A Republican winner will surely be a step closer to collapse of democracy. A Nicky Hally might resist. Maybe Pence. But if the GOP has congress and an agenda I suspect they will cave to pressure.

 

[fantome profane]

No, that's not what I said.

Yes, that is what you said.

Furthermore the shelf space itself is a limited resource.

Parents react to empty classroom, library shelves as DCPS continues book review

Parents have been surprised to find their schools’ bookshelves empty during the review process as districts across the state perform a mass review of all classroom libraries and media centers.

www.news4jax.com

I don’t believe there is a lack of shelf space in Florida.

Plus the overhead to put into the circulation system. So even a "free" donated book costs the library.

How much? Name a figure. I am very confident that a gofundme could raise more than enough money to pay for not only the physical books but all additional costs involved. If this was about money, that wouldn’t be a problem. And it obviously isn’t about shelf space.

I think at the point it is clear to everyone reading your comments that you are just making stuff up. So give us some evidence to support your nonsense. Has DeSantis or anyone in his administration said this is about money? Or shelf space? Have library staff in Florida said this is happening because of shelf space?

Your flimsy ad hoc attempt at argument is not effective at all.

 

[Jose Fly]

Good points. I have to wonder what next steps republicans will do as these draconian measures fail and create backlash. My guess is harder restrictions on voting and using whatever means they can in red states to prevent democrats from winning. If they can get congress they can pass all sorts of laws, and then they need a president. But can they win in 2024 in a fair election? Will there be more attempts to sabotage the process as Trump tried to do in 2021? Biden is the watchdog for democracy. A Republican winner will surely be a step closer to collapse of democracy. A Nicky Hally might resist. Maybe Pence. But if the GOP has congress and an agenda I suspect they will cave to pressure.

Yup, that's the corollary to what they're currently doing....how do they react when it become apparent that it's not working? Well, when one isn't winning over voters there are generally two options; either adjust your positions to appeal to more people, or take steps to keep your opponents from voting (or making their votes irrelevant, e.g., gerrymandering). As you touched on, the latter seems to be their preferred response. But I'm not sure that's a real solution either, unless they're prepared to go full fascist. A majority will only tolerate voter suppression to a certain point before they take action to counter it.

My optimistic hope is that eventually they'll be forced to abandon their vastly unpopular stances, or at least significantly revise them. My fear is that at least some of them will slide into an insurgency, where they figure if they can't win, they'll try and sabotage the system in a "if I can't win, then I'll just tear it all down" mentality. I've heard some right-wing figures say (on radio) that's what they expect to have to do.

For the most part though, all I can do is just watch and see what happens.

 

[F1fan]

Yup, that's the corollary to what they're currently doing....how do they react when it become apparent that it's not working? Well, when one isn't winning over voters there are generally two options; either adjust your positions to appeal to more people, or take steps to keep your opponents from voting (or making their votes irrelevant, e.g., gerrymandering). As you touched on, the latter seems to be their preferred response. But I'm not sure that's a real solution either, unless they're prepared to go full fascist. A majority will only tolerate voter suppression to a certain point before they take action to counter it.

My optimistic hope is that eventually they'll be forced to abandon their vastly unpopular stances, or at least significantly revise them. My fear is that at least some of them will slide into an insurgency, where they figure if they can't win, they'll try and sabotage the system in a "if I can't win, then I'll just tear it all down" mentality. I've heard some right-wing figures say (on radio) that's what they expect to have to do.

For the most part though, all I can do is just watch and see what happens.

I thnk part of their problem is that the majority of republicans are pretty far right, and they have the majority to select far right nominees. That's what gives us Jordan, MTG, Borbett, etc. Even McCarthy is playing "far right" so he can remain speaker, so they have a lot of influence. The MAGAs are the voice these days, and dragging the republicans down to their level until there is a serious collapse of democracy. As long as there are fringy far right candidates that win nominaions there is ging to be these characters in office. I don't see the far right citizen wisen up any time soon.

 

[Jose Fly]

I thnk part of their problem is that the majority of republicans are pretty far right, and they have the majority to select far right nominees. That's what gives us Jordan, MTG, Borbett, etc. Even McCarthy is playing "far right" so he can remain speaker, so they have a lot of influence. The MAGAs are the voice these days, and dragging the republicans down to their level until there is a serious collapse of democracy. As long as there are fringy far right candidates that win nominaions there is ging to be these characters in office. I don't see the far right citizen wisen up any time soon.

It makes you wonder where all sane, rational conservatives went. It's not like they all just disappeared, or became Democrats, right? From what I've read, a lot of it has to do with gerrymandering and how that results in guaranteed Republican districts, where the threat to a sane Republican now comes from the far right during the primaries, rather than from an Dem during the election. If we actually had fairly-drawn districts that included a more diverse electorate, candidates would have to moderate their positions and extreme candidates (on either side) would never stand a chance.

As bad as voter suppression is, if I could change one thing in US politics it would be to end gerrymandering and have every district drawn up by an independent, bipartisan committee. I think folks would be shocked at the difference it would make.

 

[Jose Fly]

Speaking of right-wing insurgency and staying in the context of library books....

Coralville school again evacuated after bomb threat amid Twitter barrage over controversial book

Police Chief Shane Kron said the emailed threat didn't reference the book targeted by the Twitter thread, though threats to other schools have

www.desmoinesregister.com

The sad thing is, at least one school gave in to the right-wing terrorists. Now I'm wondering, how long before this goes from bomb threats to actual bombs? How many kids will the right wingers kill?

 

[Heyo]

As bad as voter suppression is, if I could change one thing in US politics it would be to end gerrymandering and have every district drawn up by an independent, bipartisan committee. I think folks would be shocked at the difference it would make.

That would be very unfair and partisan. Or do you thing the GOP stands a snowballs chance in hell in a fair election?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It makes you wonder where all sane, rational conservatives went. It's not like they all just disappeared, or became Democrats, right? From what I've read, a lot of it has to do with gerrymandering and how that results in guaranteed Republican districts, where the threat to a sane Republican now comes from the far right during the primaries, rather than from an Dem during the election. If we actually had fairly-drawn districts that included a more diverse electorate, candidates would have to moderate their positions and extreme candidates (on either side) would never stand a chance.

As bad as voter suppression is, if I could change one thing in US politics it would be to end gerrymandering and have every district drawn up by an independent, bipartisan committee. I think folks would be shocked at the difference it would make.

Yeah, but there is an intermediate step.
Any district is an open jungle primary, where the top 4 proceed to the election, where ranked choice is applied.
In a gerrymandered district it could result in a moderate of the party of the gerrymandered favored party being elected or even for say a red district a blue dog democrat.

 

[metis]

I thnk part of their problem is that the majority of republicans are pretty far right, and they have the majority to select far right nominees. That's what gives us Jordan, MTG, Borbett, etc. Even McCarthy is playing "far right" so he can remain speaker, so they have a lot of influence. The MAGAs are the voice these days, and dragging the republicans down to their level until there is a serious collapse of democracy. As long as there are fringy far right candidates that win nominaions there is ging to be these characters in office. I don't see the far right citizen wisen up any time soon.

I wish you were wrong about this but you're clearly not.

I grew up in a Republican family and considered myself to be one, but today's Republican Party is a bastardization of what it was decades ago as it borders on neo-fascism. "Conservatives" they are not even though they claim they are. "Family values" they don't believe in as they want their own versions of what families are to do or not do. "Law & order" they do not believe in as they were led by an insurrectionist and have levied excuse after excuse as to why the January 6th rioters were just paying a friendly visit and thanking those in prison for their loyalty and supposed non-violence.

And what's even more appalling is how many in the "religious right" have, and still are, defending them and the former president who sent them to siege the Capitol while they supposedly say they believe in Jesus as being the "prince of peace".

 

[F1fan]

I wish you were wrong about this but you're clearly not.

I grew up in a Republican family and considered myself to be one, but today's Republican Party is a bastardization of what it was decades ago as it borders on neo-fascism. "Conservatives" they are not even though they claim they are. "Family values" they don't believe in as they want their own versions of what families are to do or not do. "Law & order" they do not believe in as they were led by an insurrectionist and have levied excuse after excuse as to why the January 6th rioters were just paying a friendly visit and thanking those in prison for their loyalty and supposed non-violence.

And what's even more appalling is how many in the "religious right" have, and still are, defending them and the former president who sent them to siege the Capitol while they supposedly say they believe in Jesus as being the "prince of peace".

My dad has been a republican his whol life, and in local politics in his small Missouri town for about 3 decades. He was recently mayor for sveral terms. He was always moderate and even the tie breaking vote for the 3 to 3 city council vote on public mask mandates. He got death threats from people he'd known for decades and couldn't believe it. He decided not run again and leave politics as a result.

We have a rule to never talk politics. I can guess who is what but no one comes out and says so. My step brother in law is republican but he is very liberal. I think in a small town you can't make waves too much and be a business owner. His son is gay, and lik Dick Cheney that seems to be a big influence on his more liberal social views. Even though we don't talk politics my dad made several comments at family functions last year, one of which was "You know biden's a puppet." I was shocked and caught off guard and all I could say was "Well, I don't know about that." and that was it. I think he was feeling me out on my political attitudes. My step mom made a few comments that suggest they watch FOX. I suspect they are more vocal because they are buying into the voting fraud nonsense and want to be heard. It's a fringe belief and my guess is tribe of people want to be recognized and get support wherever they can find it. This illustrates the power of far right influence, especially with right wing media not doing their job asking journalistic questions. I hoe the Dominion lawsuit shakes up the level of disinformtion FOX and others spew.

 

[metis]

My dad has been a republican his whol life, and in local politics in his small Missouri town for about 3 decades. He was recently mayor for sveral terms. He was always moderate and even the tie breaking vote for the 3 to 3 city council vote on public mask mandates. He got death threats from people he'd known for decades and couldn't believe it. He decided not run again and leave politics as a result.

We have a rule to never talk politics. I can guess who is what but no one comes out and says so. My step brother in law is republican but he is very liberal. I think in a small town you can't make waves too much and be a business owner. His son is gay, and lik Dick Cheney that seems to be a big influence on his more liberal social views. Even though we don't talk politics my dad made several comments at family functions last year, one of which was "You know biden's a puppet." I was shocked and caught off guard and all I could say was "Well, I don't know about that." and that was it. I think he was feeling me out on my political attitudes. My step mom made a few comments that suggest they watch FOX. I suspect they are more vocal because they are buying into the voting fraud nonsense and want to be heard. It's a fringe belief and my guess is tribe of people want to be recognized and get support wherever they can find it. This illustrates the power of far right influence, especially with right wing media not doing their job asking journalistic questions. I hoe the Dominion lawsuit shakes up the level of disinformtion FOX and others spew.

Same with our extended family and many of our friends, which is also why we cannot discuss such matters with them. And yes, Fox is their "news station" of choice.

 

[Stevicus]

A Utah parent says the Bible contains porn and should be removed from school libraries. Here’s their full challenge.

A Utah parent wants their school district to review the Bible for inappropriate content and possibly remove it, calling it “one of the most sex-ridden books around.”

www.sltrib.com

Frustrated by the books being removed from school libraries, a Utah parent says there’s one that hasn’t been challenged yet, but that they believe should be, for being “one of the most sex-ridden books around.”

So they’ve submitted a request for their school district in Davis County to now review the Bible for any inappropriate content.

“Incest, onanism, bestiality, prostitution, genital mutilation, fellatio, dildos, rape, and even infanticide,” the parent wrote in their request, listing topics they found concerning in the religious text. “You’ll no doubt find that the Bible, under Utah Code Ann. § 76-10-1227, has ‘no serious values for minors’ because it’s pornographic by our new definition.”

“Get this PORN out of our schools,” the parent wrote. “If the books that have been banned so far are any indication for way lesser offenses, this should be a slam dunk.”

So, the Bible is porn and should be removed from school libraries, according to this parental request.

The legislator who sponsored the original bill is calling it "antics that drain school resources."

Rep. Ken Ivory, R-West Jordan, who sponsored the bill to remove pornographic books from school libraries, called the request to pull the Bible “antics that drain school resources.”

He also acknowledged the parent who submitted the request “really had to go through their Bible study” to come up with the list of examples they found inappropriate. He added: “I hope they paid attention to other parts of the Bible, though.”

Ivory said he sees the request as a political stunt, not a serious request. He suggested: “For people to minimize that and to make a mockery of it is very sad.”

That's the trouble with banning stuff. The same laws and principles can be used to lead to unintended consequences.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

A Utah parent says the Bible contains porn and should be removed from school libraries. Here’s their full challenge.

A Utah parent wants their school district to review the Bible for inappropriate content and possibly remove it, calling it “one of the most sex-ridden books around.”

www.sltrib.com

So, the Bible is porn and should be removed from school libraries, according to this parental request.

The legislator who sponsored the original bill is calling it "antics that drain school resources."







That's the trouble with banning stuff. The same laws and principles can be used to lead to unintended consequences.

Interesting that the concerned parents left out murder -- on a vast scale. But I guess Americans think murder is okay for kids, just not love when it becomes physical. Hard to think of those attitudes as anything but strange.

 

[Heyo]

The legislator who sponsored the original bill is calling it "antics that drain school resources."

Exactly.

Wait ... He didn't talk about the bill he sponsored, did he?