"Americans’ confidence in religion hits a new low"

[Quetzal]

Not really. Judaism is more of a true religion than much of Buddhism, for instance.

It is more of an approach matter, not one of origin. Mainly, it takes being Dharmic in one's practice - which means among other things having little time to waste with superstition and with "religious" fear.

I don't quite understand, let's start simply. How do you define a true religion?

 

[George-ananda]

I wonder how you reached such a conclusion, and why.

From your statement that True religion is far less supernatural-like

Is there any reason not to favor Humanism?

It seems to me that if anything it is a necessary component of healthy religion.

I am not saying I have a problem with Humanism but I am saying I do not consider it a religion.

I won't comment on materialism because I'm uncertain what you mean by it.

From Wikipedia: Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all phenomena, including mental phenomena and consciousness, are the result of material interactions.

If it is the absence of reliance on deities and afterlives, though, then I can only call it a good thing.

Materialism holds the complete absence of deities and afterlives. I consider materialism a bad thing because IMO the material is just a small part of reality and not our true reality

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't quite understand, let's start simply. How do you define a true religion?

Something that is useful, is not too poisoned by superstition, and encourages and inspires moral virtue, particularly solidarity and compassion.

 

[LuisDantas]

Materialism holds the complete absence of deities and afterlives. I consider materialism a bad thing because IMO the material is just a small part of reality and not our true reality

I had some hope that you had reconsidered by now, because for me that sounds even instinctively wrong.

 

[Quetzal]

Something that is useful, is not too poisoned by superstition, and encourages and inspires moral virtue, particularly solidarity and compassion.

Interestingly, you made no direct reference to the divine. I am intrigued, is this done on purpose?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would say it has more akin with the eastern concept of non-dualism (God and creation are not-two).

I didn't go into detail, but the way it is presented it is very much Western. Scientists are trying to find a singularity of all of existence, trying to figure out this singularity, and according to the author, it mirrors thousands of years of Western Judeo-Christian Monotheism. The article is called "Unification."

 

[George-ananda]

I had some hope that you had reconsidered by now, because for me that sounds even instinctively wrong.

Instinctively we believe wherever our consciousness is centered is the only real. It is called 'Maya' (illusion) in Hinduism.

 

[oldbadger]

*laughs*

I don't have much issue with you picking on/debating with whomever you like.
Just reckon you missed the mark this time is all.

As a general rule, I think checking the funding source of polls, or the sponsors of research is damn sensible. But Gallup have been doing this for a long time. Poll could be good, or it could be crap, but I don't think there is a recent bias being driven by New Atheism, or whatever. If biased be the findings, they still seem to indicate a pretty clear trend which you've so far avoided directly addressing.

Hi again.......
I, we, the world...... have been recognising the decline of 'Church' for over 70 years (or more). Ever since Dickens wrote about the total corruption within many Church Courts there has been a steady and measurable decline. Such decline has been much more noticeable in the UK over the last 60 years than in the USA.

What makes me laugh is the constant flow of threads asking questions such as 'could Jesus have carried a cross, given the density of walnut' or whatever............ on and on. So I make merry with such threads.

In fact, it amazes me to think that circa 100 million Americans would describe themselves as 'Christian'. That is just gob-smacking for a huge number. The only UK churches and religious halls that I've ever seen filled to overflowing are London Pentecostal Churches (Lordy! Wow!) and JW Halls, which are now so full up that towns have to have two districts and hold double services in the same hall.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

@oldbadger

Islam is perhaps different due to your immigration, but I'd guess in very general terms religion in UK is similar to Australia.

Not really Dont Ask, Dont tell, and more like Who Cares.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I've noticed here on RF there seems to be some denial towards the idea of people becoming less religious (it's even happening in Japan), and may be uncomfortable with the idea.

Japan even has lack of religion portrayed in many of their works, such as manga, anime, and light novels.
If you look in the 'slice of life' categories the only types of God(s) you see are used as jokes (for the most part, they are used seriously every now and again).

Not only is religion on the decline in many countries, atheistic agnosticism is on the rise.
I don't really rely on statistics too much (as they are easily changed with the variables that are applied) but I think they hit the nail on the head with this.

Also there are very few religious people in a decent amount of European countries.
We should follow their lead, IMO.
I see it as almost embarrassing that around 80% of the USA is religious.

If it weren't for my family I'd probably be in Sweden right now leading a happier life,
knowing that I can walk down the street for some smokes without a street preacher yelling in my face about how I'm a "fa**ot who sucks on Satan's C**k".
(I'm not even gay ) (I'm not making it up either it's happened four times this month)

Ah, it's good to have life goals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hi again.......
I, we, the world...... have been recognising the decline of 'Church' for over 70 years (or more). Ever since Dickens wrote about the total corruption within many Church Courts there has been a steady and measurable decline. Such decline has been much more noticeable in the UK over the last 60 years than in the USA.

What makes me laugh is the constant flow of threads asking questions such as 'could Jesus have carried a cross, given the density of walnut' or whatever............ on and on. So I make merry with such threads.

In fact, it amazes me to think that circa 100 million Americans would describe themselves as 'Christian'. That is just gob-smacking for a huge number. The only UK churches and religious halls that I've ever seen filled to overflowing are London Pentecostal Churches (Lordy! Wow!) and JW Halls, which are now so full up that towns have to have two districts and hold double services in the same hall.

This trend is not just within the church. It's all religions, all people, across the world. And it's not like people are leaving religion behind in droves, but there are definitely more-and-more people identifying with non-religious labels.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Japan even has lack of religion portrayed in many of their works, such as manga, anime, and light novels.

I wouldn't say there is a lack of religion. Catholicism is a part of Trinity Blood, Hellsing has tensions between the Vatican and Church of England, the Church is a part of Spice and Wolf and Holo herself is considered a god, and Princess Mononoke has forest spirits and gods as characters. I'd say this "lack" is in many ways similar to America's, in which many things do feature it, and many things don't.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I wouldn't say there is a lack of religion. Catholicism is a part of Trinity Blood, Hellsing has tensions between the Vatican and Church of England, the Church is a part of Spice and Wolf and Holo herself is considered a god, and Princess Mononoke has forest spirits and gods as characters. I'd say this "lack" is in many ways similar to America's, in which many things do feature it, and many things don't.

I meant lack of seriously believed religion, my bad.
How they don't take the church seriously in Spice and Wolf is a great example.
Holo's existence, her dialogue, and how the church members are portrayed, are not in favor of the church.
Hellsing hits a seriousness of a different aspect, but I suppose the seriousness is still there.
Can't say much against Trinity Blood as I am not well read on it.

But there are hundreds of manga and anime out there that don't take monotheistic religions seriously at all.
Most of the ones that involve religion at all hit more in the mythology department than in actual passed on Gods.
Then there's also the ones that straight up deny God(s) such as Gantz, if you've ever read the last 10-15 chapters.

But I do agree that there is no lack of religion, just that it isn't treated seriously 90% of the time, a lot of the time it isn't even mentioned or implied either, lol.

(Showing off my geek side, but this is more of a side habit of mine since to me anime and manga always had much better stories then T.V. and movies).

 

[Marisa]

So how long will this plunge continue? Think it will ever get down to the single digits?

In my opinion, until the churches update dogma to match progressive thinking, which has changed regarding women's place and value in society and LGBTQ equality.

 

[Marisa]

The actual headline and story is somewhat different:
Confidence in Religion at New Low, but Not Among Catholics
Confidence in Religion at New Low, but Not Among Catholics

I've always found the catholic thing a bit odd myself. The church is against chemical birth control, yet it's estimated that 99% of catholic women will/are/have use(ing)(ed) it, and even after the pedophile priest things it didn't seem like any chinks in the armor were created. But let a pope come out and say "hey, be nice to people" and the fit hits the shan.

 

[oldbadger]

This trend is not just within the church. It's all religions, all people, across the world. And it's not like people are leaving religion behind in droves, but there are definitely more-and-more people identifying with non-religious labels.

No...... I don't believe that.
A massive majority of all the people that I know believe in spirits, ghosts, Gods, angels etc...........
Now I would not expect any of these people to be atheists. They could certainly call themselves agnostics, but your mention of non-religious labels doesn't mean that such people don't believe in anything, does it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Can't say much against Trinity Blood as I am not well read on it.

The Vatican has some real bad asses working for it in Trinity Blood.

No...... I don't believe that.

You can believe what you want, but study after study, poll after poll, from the East to the West have all shown the same trend: the number of people who consider themselves religious is on a steady decline.

 

[oldbadger]

You can believe what you want, but study after study, poll after poll, from the East to the West have all shown the same trend: the number of people who consider themselves religious is on a steady decline.

........... but they still believe in ghosts, spirits, angels and Gods.
You can't get away from it........... folks believe in the afterlife and much more, which is far away from atheism, for instance. So Church numbers and religious titles have fallen, but that's not the whole picture.

 

[LuisDantas]

Interestingly, you made no direct reference to the divine. I am intrigued, is this done on purpose?

Yes. I have no use for the concept of divinity. I am personally convinced that it should be avoided.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

........... but they still believe in ghosts, spirits, angels and Gods.
You can't get away from it........... folks believe in the afterlife and much more, which is far away from atheism, for instance. So Church numbers and religious titles have fallen, but that's not the whole picture.

No one is denying they aren't there, or even claiming they still aren't a majority.
However, with each year that passes there are fewer of them.