An Atheist Who Believes in God

[spiritually inclined]

"I am an atheist who loves God." « Perlocutionary II: philosophy and literature

This article best describes how I feel about "God". My reasoning is that the idea of an external, supernatural, miracle-working God is not relevant to my life. Assuming this entity exists, I am unaware of it, or any way that it affects my life.

Yet spiritually/emotionally experiences -- which can be caused by a variety of stimuli and probably has to do with the causes of altered states of consciousness -- are a reality, if only subjective. That is, they exist as experience, whatever that is.

I have personally undergone a spiritual experience in regard to my homosexuality. Without going too much into the details, it was similar to what some near-death experiencers describe, in that I experienced telepathy and a completely different perspective on homosexuality: that is, love, all of it, is beautiful. This experience occurred naturally, and I've read of many similar cases. It was a brief encounter, yet it has always affected the way I think of morals.

For all intents and purposes, I am an atheist, yet I do not rule out that humans experience transformation through experiences like my own (I don't really know how to categorize it) art, music, morality, and life in a deeply subjective and profound way. Some interpret it in a more religious ways, others do not, and I don't see anything wrong with that. It is when we turn our experiences of life and beliefs into rigid, unchangeable dogmas that religion becomes nasty and idolatrous.

I am interested if any others on the board can relate to God concepts and spiritual concepts in this metaphorical way, as described in this post and in the article.

James

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi James,
I can. I'm at the start of my journey. I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist, and as of last week I wouldn't describe myself as a theist either.
I like the quote from Campbell in your article - "God is a symbol that points to the ultimate mystery of being: beyond philosophy, beyond theology, beyond the reach of language. The mystery must be experienced directly, without the mediation of words. One’s whole being is involved in the experience, not the intellect alone."

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

It is when we turn our experiences of life and beliefs into rigid, unchangeable dogmas that religion becomes nasty and idolatrous.

I object to your use of the word idolatrous. This word seems to be used very poorly. Idolatrous means something involving idolatry. Idolatry is the worship and devotion to idols, created objects or entities, or in general anything other than God which people worship. To believe that one's creed, for example, there is none worthy of worship except Allah, is unchangeable, is NOT tantamount to idolatry.

 

[UnityNow101]

Organized religion can and often does become a form of idolatry. I have noticed this for quite some time. Sure, you are not bowing down and worshipping a wooden statue made in the image of any supposed god. What tends to happen is that you create a mental image of what you would like God to be, which becomes the idol to which you give your praise and adoration. Once your "truth" becomes dormant and fixed, it ceases to be truth and turns into a stagnant idol created by the mind. It doesn't really fit with the historical definition of an idol, but it does become some sort of an idol which can put a hamper on your search for the ever-changing flow of truth.

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

Organized religion can and often does become a form of idolatry. I have noticed this for quite some time. Sure, you are not bowing down and worshipping a wooden statue made in the image of any supposed god. What tends to happen is that you create a mental image of what you would like God to be, which becomes the idol to which you give your praise and adoration.

Having a visual image of God whether mentally or physically in the form of an image or icon is idolatry. So for example, even if one doesn't prostrate to an image of Shiva or Jesus, but considers God to resemble some form or shape, resemble a human being or animal for example, than yes this is idolatry.

This is why the Holy Qur'an doesn't describe what God "looks like" or give us a mental picture of Him in that sense. We come to know of God through His Names, Qualities, and Attributes. For example, we believe God is Merciful, Powerful, All-Knowing. Ascribing these kind of qualities to God is not idolatry. However, if someone says God is blue, or has five fingers and toes, sleeps, eats, etc., than yes, this should be considered as idolatry, because you are getting a visual image of God, whereas God transcends physicality:

No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.
(Holy Qur'an, 6:103)

Once your "truth" becomes dormant and fixed, it ceases to be truth and turns into a stagnant idol created by the mind. It doesn't really fit with the historical definition of an idol, but it does become some sort of an idol which can put a hamper on your search for the ever-changing flow of truth.

What you are suggesting is very absurd. Truth is defined by its absoluteness and immutability. Truth is not something malleable, which can change like the wind, going this way one day and flowing that way the next. For example, 1+1=2 is a truth, a fact, something that can never change. God as He has revealed Himself is also truth, it cannot be changed.

He says in the Qur'an:

This is so, because Allah is the Reality (The Truth): it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who has power over all things (22:6)

 

[McBell]

For example, 1+1=2 is a truth, a fact, something that can never change. God as He has revealed Himself is also truth, it cannot be changed

interestingly enough 1+1 can equal 1
One man plus one woman equals one marriage.

Depends upon how you look at it.
Which makes it rather subjective.

Another point that you seem to fail to recognize is that not only does 1+1=2
but so does 8-6=2.
Interesting how many paths there are to the answer 2...

 

[BucephalusBB]

interestingly enough 1+1 can equal 1
One man plus one woman equals one marriage.

Uhhu, but I guess he meant in math. Your example is not math
On the other hand, to help you, in the binary system, 1+1=10

Depends upon how you look at it.
Which makes it rather subjective.

Again, not in math. Math is supposed to be objective.

Another point that you seem to fail to recognize is that not only does 1+1=2
but so does 8-6=2.
Interesting how many paths there are to the answer 2...

The difference is that 1+1=2 is stated by humans as fact. And 8-6=2 comes forth out of that..
8-6=2 is only fact because 1+1=2 is given.

 

[reeferreaper]

Keep in mind that the words we often use for explaining things, such as, a "spiritual" experience are very unique.

Spiritual experiences are very real, but their relationship with religion/god are completely irrelevant.

I am an atheist, yet I have had very spiritual experience.