An Attack on Free Speech: Scottish university student expelled for criticizing Israel

[Mazdak]

BBC News - St Andrews student guilty of Israel flag racism

Paul Donnachie, 19, put his hands down his trousers then rubbed them on a flag belonging to Jewish student Chanan Reitblat.

Donnachie has been expelled from St Andrews and Mr Colchester has been suspended for one year.

Cupar Sheriff Court had earlier heard evidence from Mr Reitblat, a chemistry student on a one-term exchange from the Jewish Yeshiva University in New York, who said he felt "violated and devastated" by the incident.

I've been called a Kraut on more than one occasion because of my German surname, and nothing happened. I've seen American, Chinese, and British flags burned in protest of American, Chinese, and British policies, and those incidents were regarded as free speech.

Why should a student be expelled just because a someone else was "violated and devastated"? If drawing pictures of Mohammed is fine, or soaking crucifixes in urine is free speech, then why not criticism of a foreign state?

 

[kai]

BBC News - St Andrews student guilty of Israel flag racism



I've been called a Kraut on more than one occasion because of my German surname, and nothing happened. I've seen American, Chinese, and British flags burned in protest of American, Chinese, and British policies, and those incidents were regarded as free speech. What in St Andrews?

Why should a student be expelled just because a someone else was "violated and devastated"? If drawing pictures of Mohammed is fine, or soaking crucifixes in urine is free speech, then why not criticism of a foreign state?

"If drawing pictures of Mohammed is fine, or soaking crucifixes in urine is free speech" in St Andrews? really?

 

[Skwim]

BBC News - St Andrews student guilty of Israel flag racism



I've been called a Kraut on more than one occasion because of my German surname, and nothing happened. I've seen American, Chinese, and British flags burned in protest of American, Chinese, and British policies, and those incidents were regarded as free speech.

Why should a student be expelled just because a someone else was "violated and devastated"? If drawing pictures of Mohammed is fine, or soaking crucifixes in urine is free speech, then why not criticism of a foreign state?

How does the law read?

 

[Mazdak]

"If drawing pictures of Mohammed is fine, or soaking crucifixes in urine is free speech" in St Andrews? really?

I never said it happened in St. Andrews. I'm American, so I was talking about society in general, and you probably knew that. But then again liberals love to play word games and put up strawman arguments.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Flag racism"....what new crimes will they think of next?
Btw, what race is the flag?

 

[Storm]

What exactly was his criticism? What point was he trying to make?

If he had spray painted a swastika on the flag, would that have been "speech?" There's a difference between harsh points and simply trying to upset people.

 

[JacobEzra.]

BBC News - St Andrews student guilty of Israel flag racism



I've been called a Kraut on more than one occasion because of my German surname, and nothing happened. I've seen American, Chinese, and British flags burned in protest of American, Chinese, and British policies, and those incidents were regarded as free speech.

Why should a student be expelled just because a someone else was "violated and devastated"? If drawing pictures of Mohammed is fine, or soaking crucifixes in urine is free speech, then why not criticism of a foreign state?

Maybe because these flags burnt, or these drawing of mOhammed or the crucifixes, had nothing to do with sticking ones hands down their pants and then wiping it on another persons flag. Not one you bought, but on another persons property.

Its intimidation and done to harass and to offend the owner of the flag.

 

[JacobEzra.]

"Flag racism"....what new crimes will they think of next?
Btw, what race is the flag?

Well how about I come over to your house, wipe my genitals all over my hands, and then wipe my hands all over your flag.

I am sure you would not be happy.

 

[kai]

I never said it happened in St. Andrews. I'm American, so I was talking about society in general, and you probably knew that. But then again liberals love to play word games and put up strawman arguments.

well its not society in general, its Scotland. Go there and take someones crucifix and soak it in urine and see what happens. I am sure you could buy your own Israeli flag and do what you want with it, but don't do it to someone elses.

 

[Tolerance]

Insulting someone because of his country of origin is hardly free speech, and defacing a flag isn't either. I'm glad that the university stepped in and hope they don't give in to the notion that offending someone is free speech.

One person's rights end where it affects another person's rights. We all have the right to go through life and not feel insulted, or emotionally beset upon by other people. The Israeli student was a victim of bullying, and what the other guy did was unacceptable.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well how about I come over to your house, wipe my genitals all over my hands, and then wipe my hands all over your flag.
I am sure you would not be happy.

If I had a flag I'd be peeved, but I wouldn't accuse you of racism.
Neither would I accuse you of a crime.

Are you prone to doing such things?

 

[Storm]

Insulting someone because of his country of origin is hardly free speech, and defacing a flag isn't either. I'm glad that the university stepped in and hope they don't give in to the notion that offending someone is free speech.

One person's rights end where it affects another person's rights. We all have the right to go through life and not feel insulted, or emotionally beset upon by other people. The Israeli student was a victim of bullying, and what the other guy did was unacceptable.

No, we really don't. That said, there is a line between criticism and, as you put it, bullying.

 

[JacobEzra.]

If I had a flag I'd be peeved, but I wouldn't accuse you of racism.
Neither would I accuse you of a crime.

Are you prone to doing such things?

No I am not. I am actually civilized.

 

[Revoltingest]

No I am not. I am actually civilized.

Excellent!
I can set out the good napkins then.

 

[Revoltingest]

Insulting someone because of his country of origin is hardly free speech, and defacing a flag isn't either. I'm glad that the university stepped in and hope they don't give in to the notion that offending someone is free speech.

Here (the US), it is free speech. Although, one should deface one's own flag, & not the property of others.

One person's rights end where it affects another person's rights. We all have the right to go through life and not feel insulted, or emotionally beset upon by other people. The Israeli student was a victim of bullying, and what the other guy did was unacceptable.

The right to not feel insulted is a toughie. We'd all have to walk on eggs.
Rubbing someone else's flag is certainly rude, but to treat it as a major crime seems over the top.

 

[Mazdak]

well its not society in general, its Scotland. Go there and take someones crucifix and soak it in urine and see what happens.

Probably nothing would happen. You can insult the Christian faith in much of the post-Christian west and nobody would bat an eye.

Rubbing someone else's flag is certainly rude, but to treat it as a major crime seems over the top.

I can agree to that. I think that at most, the real issue should have been property damage. However, the fact that they prosecuted it as "racism" is somewhat indicative that they treated the case differently because of the circumstances.

 

[Revoltingest]

However, the fact that they prosecuted it as "racism" is somewhat indicative that they treated the case differently because of the circumstances.

Will this be another thread wherein we try to figure out if "Jew" is a race?

 

[Mazdak]

Will this be another thread wherein we try to figure out if "Jew" is a race?

It seems like some people want it both ways. When they want to associate the status of being Jewish with victims, then they're a race, and a minority like the blacks. In all other incidents, then those same people will claim that they're not a race, and just a religion.

 

[kai]

Probably nothing would happen. You can insult the Christian faith in much of the post-Christian west and nobody would bat an eye.
not over here you cant

I can agree to that. I think that at most, the real issue should have been property damage. However, the fact that they prosecuted it as "racism" is somewhat indicative that they treated the case differently because of the circumstances.

you cant do that here:


The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report was published in February 1999, and defined a racist incident as:

˜... any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person."

We accept this definition.

We define a religious incident as:

"Any incident which is believed to be motivated because of a person's religion or perceived religion, by the victim or any other person".

Both definitions help us to identify all racist or religious incidents on our case files to make sure we take the racist or religious element into account when we make decisions about prosecuting.


The CPS : Racist and religious crime ? CPS prosecution policy

 

[Revoltingest]

The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report was published in February 1999, and defined a racist incident as:
˜... any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person."
We accept this definition.
We define a religious incident as:
"Any incident which is believed to be motivated because of a person's religion or perceived religion, by the victim or any other person".http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/rrpbcrbook.html#a02

That's a mighty big window you guys have there.
If the US adopted that, half of the country would have to become lawyers (if we haven't already) just to defend the other half.