An Interesting Discussion on Pascal's Wager

[Ignatius A]

Is it a choice to find no religion at all likely? I don't see it that way. It is simply an evaluation of the evidence available.

Yes. Right you evaluated the evidence and decided none was sufficient to convince of religion or the existence of God. Another word for decided is choice.

 

[Revoltingest]

Pascal's wager is dumb.
Its premises are invented & unverifiable.
- Eternal punishment is a big risk.
- Choosing to believe in a particular god
avoids eternal punishment.
- Choosing to believe is even possible.
- Pretending to believe...would that even work?
- That membership any of the various sects
is good enuf.

 

[LuisDantas]

You made my point here

So you can't say what a fear motivated Christian is.

I will accept your apologies. Everyone trips over his own feet every once in a while. You just did.

 

[Ignatius A]

Pascal's wager is dumb.
Its premises are invented & unverifiable.
- Eternal punishment is a big risk.
- Choosing to believe in a particular god
avoids eternal punishment.
- Choosing to believe is even possible.
- Pretending to believe...would that even work?
- That membership any of the various sects
is good enuf.

Lol

 

[Ignatius A]

I will accept your apologies. Everyone trips over his own feet every once in a while. You just did.

You can accept whatever you like. Some people accept that the world is flat too. You're in good company.

Still waiting on a definition of "fear motivated Christian".

 

[Revoltingest]

You can accept whatever you like. Some people accept that the world is flat too. You're in good company.

Still waiting on a definition of "fear motivated Christian".

My attempt to define "fear motivated Christian".
Conducts oneself out of fearing punishment,
rather than preference for morality.

 

[Koldo]

Yes. Right you evaluated the evidence and decided none was sufficient to convince of religion or the existence of God. Another word for decided is choice.

Let me point that it is you who is framing it as a decision. Your words, not his.

 

[LuisDantas]

You can accept whatever you like. Some people accept that the world is flat too. You're in good company.

Still waiting on a definition of "fear motivated Christian".

Are you truly claiming to be so clueless about the nature of Christian communities?

If you say so.

Pascal's Wager and other proposals associated with Christianity and Islam attempt to substitute fear of hell and similar things for genuine faith or belief.

Hence, fear as a motivation.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You can accept whatever you like. Some people accept that the world is flat too. You're in good company.

And you're simply rude.

 

[Balthazzar]

Not quite the same, though.

In the case of Pascal's Wager, if there's no God but you were religious, there's a cost. Pascal argues that the cost is worth it based on the potential outcomes, but even he acknowledges that there would be a cost.

OTOH, if we take climate change seriously, there are all sorts of benefits. Even without considering the potential for future climate change and all of its effects, we can acknowledge that:

- reducing air pollution is a net positive. There are lots of non-climate-change reasons to do this.

- reducing the urban heat island effect in cities is a net positive. We already have people dying in heat waves.

- reducing our vulnerability to flooding is also a net positive. It's not like severe floods don't already happen.

- etc., etc.

If we did the things that we need to do to properly respond to climate change, we would win even if climate change weren't real. The only question is how much we win by. And by the same token, if we don't do those things, we lose no matter what. The only question is how bad a loss we'd suffer.

... so with climate change, one course of action dominates without Pascal-style pondering of just how good or bad each of the outcomes might be.

Our leading industries might have a contrary opinion to less risk associated with efforts to reduce pollutions and greenhouse gases. In this case, climate change is on par with the God concept, given being in a position to profit from its denial. Losing is in the eye of the beholder, and depends on the paradigm from which people operate. You could argue that climate change is evident, to which I would argue the same for God. I guess we both lose and win in both scenarios, but win wins still come with a price. Sacrifice being the most operative term and what people are willing to sacrifice, the determining factor moving forward. Pascal set this in motion with contemplative mental exercises, which help us think critically about things like this.

 

[Ignatius A]

My attempt to define "fear motivated Christian".
Conducts oneself out of fearing punishment,
rather than preference for morality.

Any Christian who properly understands Christianity doesn't conduct oneself out of fearing punishment. That's your view and your view should be given it's due consideration.

 

[Ignatius A]

And you're simply rude.

Yeah I wish I could say that's the first time I've heard that. Look I just dont like snarky people. I'll be respectful but not when people are snarky or bullies.

 

[Revoltingest]

Any Christian who properly understands Christianity doesn't conduct oneself out of fearing punishment. That's your view and your view should be given it's due consideration.

It's not intended to be "my view".
Just a definition.
But it appears that if you're right, then many
Christians don't properly understand it.
Also, there being so many different sects
shows that none understand it the same way.

 

[Ignatius A]

It's not intended to be "my view".
Just a definition.
But it appears that if you're right, then many
Christians don't properly understand it.
Also, there being so many different sects
shows that none understand it the same way.

But it is "your view" as it's nothing more than a made up idea. Pure fiction.
That doesn't mean there isnt a proper way to understand it.

 

[Revoltingest]

But it is "your view" as it's nothing more than a made up idea.

I have many views.
That one wasn't part of the definition.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes. Right you evaluated the evidence and decided none was sufficient to convince of religion or the existence of God. Another word for decided is choice.

But it wasn’t a decision. It was a discovery.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Pascal's Wager wants you to hang out with religious people and give them a chance to guide you as part of the toolkit, never asks you to pretend to believe. Also, prayers to God doesn't require you to believe.

As if I haven't done that...lol

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Sinful pleasures are based on what exactly? I waited 10 years to eat my favorite meal once. One day, I decided to purchase two 1" ribeye steaks. Best steaks I ever ate. Another time, I waited a full year, maybe it was 3 ... anyway to drink a beer. I purchased a coors light and I don't even like Coors light all that much, but man ... Guess what? It was the best beer I ever drank. Fasting, although some people don't practice it just kind of makes things better. So, maybe it has a thing to do with being gluttonous and it being sinful based on a desensitization of its value.

I'll skip the part about sinful, but I think you're right in that overexposure to material things can simply desensitize you to their value.

 

[John53]

My attempt to define "fear motivated Christian".
Conducts oneself out of fearing punishment,
rather than preference for morality.

I don't remember a lot about my Christian days but I do remember a lot of talk about "the fear of God". It was certainly a popular phrase in the Church of England church I attended.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't remember a lot about my Christian days but I do remember a lot of talk about "the fear of God". It was certainly a popular phrase in the Church of England church I attended.

I often hear/read....
"God fearing" & "Fear of God"
And I've talked to people who said that
they were indeed very afraid of this God
fellow....all the smiting, the eternal agony.
It's all so foreign to me, having never been
a believer.