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An introduction to the church in locality
- Thread starter Troy
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If you want a meaningful debate, and not just an increase of your number of post , it would be helpful if you provided a summary of that page and your own views of it. The way I read it, the author advocates that a person living a handful of miles away from his/her next neighbour should form a church of his/her own. That doesn't seem very sensible to me.
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
I do apologize, Pah, and if I've offended, you, Troy. Thank you for clarifying what should be refrained from being posted. I'll delete it immeadiately.
true blood
Active Member
I'm non-denominational and I question this usage of the word "church" in this current Administration in which we are living in today. The actual usage for the word "church", for my fellow non-denominational true believers, is called the Body of Christ. The Greek word for "church" is ekklesia, literally meaning the "called out". Christ, who is in heaven, is the head of the Church, the Body. Christ's people are members of his Body. The true born again believers are "all members of that body," not on earth but in Christ, the head, who is in heaven. The unity and oneness of the Body of the Church springs not from the "eye or hand" members, but from the source, the head, Christ Jesus. I Corinthians 12:18 says, "But now hath God set the members...in the body[in Christ in heaven], as it hath pleased him[God]," not as it seems to have pleased men.
The members of the true "Church" are those who have been born again by confessing not their sins but the savior from sin, the Lord Jesus Christ, and believing in their hearts that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. The growth of the Church comes from the head, Jesus Christ, who is in heaven. God exalted Christ by the resurrection from the dead and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. As the head of the natural body coordinates or guides the natural body, so the head of the spiritual Body is spiritually the source of guidance for the whole spiritual Body which is the Church.
God wants the Body of Christ, the Church, to become a perfect man/woman that all members upon earth may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ. From who the whole Body fitly joined together and compacted by every sensation from the supply, according to a working, corresponding to the measure of each individual part, brings about the growth of the Body with a view to the building up of itself in Love. The growth of the Church is God downward, not man upward. It is from heaven to earth and not a reaching up from earth to heaven. Christ, the head, is the source of all guidance and operation of the Body. The members of this Body of Christ, the Church, are to work in the Body in the relationship that God has set, not according to what men have set. Natural, earthly, carnal rules, regulations and ordinances do not enter into the growth of this Body of Christ at all, for this Church is totally spiritual, heavenly and eternal.
There are different usages of this word church. I presented you mine which is God's truth. The worldly definitions vary, for instance if you are pointing at a building you could say, "Look at that church" or "We have a meeting of the church" or evening referring to different denominations such as Methodist, Roman Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Baptist, etc.. These meanings of the word "church" are understood. However in the Bible and among the true born again believers the word "church" has a deeper significant meaning of each usage in the context of the administration in which it is used.
Only the "teleioi" will probably understand this. Among the Christian believers are only a small handful of "teleioi", mature, spiritually grown up believers as opposed to babes in Christ or carnal Christians.
The members of the true "Church" are those who have been born again by confessing not their sins but the savior from sin, the Lord Jesus Christ, and believing in their hearts that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. The growth of the Church comes from the head, Jesus Christ, who is in heaven. God exalted Christ by the resurrection from the dead and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. As the head of the natural body coordinates or guides the natural body, so the head of the spiritual Body is spiritually the source of guidance for the whole spiritual Body which is the Church.
God wants the Body of Christ, the Church, to become a perfect man/woman that all members upon earth may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ. From who the whole Body fitly joined together and compacted by every sensation from the supply, according to a working, corresponding to the measure of each individual part, brings about the growth of the Body with a view to the building up of itself in Love. The growth of the Church is God downward, not man upward. It is from heaven to earth and not a reaching up from earth to heaven. Christ, the head, is the source of all guidance and operation of the Body. The members of this Body of Christ, the Church, are to work in the Body in the relationship that God has set, not according to what men have set. Natural, earthly, carnal rules, regulations and ordinances do not enter into the growth of this Body of Christ at all, for this Church is totally spiritual, heavenly and eternal.
There are different usages of this word church. I presented you mine which is God's truth. The worldly definitions vary, for instance if you are pointing at a building you could say, "Look at that church" or "We have a meeting of the church" or evening referring to different denominations such as Methodist, Roman Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Baptist, etc.. These meanings of the word "church" are understood. However in the Bible and among the true born again believers the word "church" has a deeper significant meaning of each usage in the context of the administration in which it is used.
Only the "teleioi" will probably understand this. Among the Christian believers are only a small handful of "teleioi", mature, spiritually grown up believers as opposed to babes in Christ or carnal Christians.
hmm this is interesting... by the way this is my first time on the board. hello to all.
What about baptism? I notice that baptism is seen as a ceromony by most religions today.
But baptism is required for one to be saved.
Believe
Repent
Confess
Be baptised in a watery grave as christ was buried
live faithfully until death
What about baptism? I notice that baptism is seen as a ceromony by most religions today.
But baptism is required for one to be saved.
Believe
Repent
Confess
Be baptised in a watery grave as christ was buried
live faithfully until death
http://christianforums.itopsites.com And so we have these forum owners taking responsibility having experienced baptism, and now they are standing side by side, for they know the work of the cross in their lives.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
It's a shame that the word baptism was never translated, but merely transliterated. IOW, they made up a word to translate it.
The Greek word means immersion in water, not peanut butter, not popcorn, not even wine or seltzer water. Just water.
Some refer to it as a "work". I have never understood this. How can getting wet ever be a "work". I Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Go read II Kings 5:1-14... Was Naamun cleansed before he dipped the seventh time? Did the dipping make him clean or his obedience to God's will? Did God ask Naamun to act in a logical fashion?
No, we mere mortals can't understand how God saves us through Baptism... we just need to accept it and do it. It's a leap of faith on our parts... not a work.
BTW, of all the conversions in the Book of Acts, you won't find one without baptism using water.
It's not peanut butter.
The Greek word means immersion in water, not peanut butter, not popcorn, not even wine or seltzer water. Just water.
Some refer to it as a "work". I have never understood this. How can getting wet ever be a "work". I Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Go read II Kings 5:1-14... Was Naamun cleansed before he dipped the seventh time? Did the dipping make him clean or his obedience to God's will? Did God ask Naamun to act in a logical fashion?
No, we mere mortals can't understand how God saves us through Baptism... we just need to accept it and do it. It's a leap of faith on our parts... not a work.
BTW, of all the conversions in the Book of Acts, you won't find one without baptism using water.
It's not peanut butter.
Instead of always typing out the same answer, here is the best answer you will ever see that baptism is burial and resurrection with Christ with or without water.Xzist said:
When one dies, one is buried. Since I have died with Christ I am buried with Him.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/waterbaptism.htm
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Troy,
I wonder then why the Ethiopian Eunuch felt the need for water?
Acts 8:35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. 36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?" 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
Acts 10 also sees Peter commanding them to be baptized in water as well.
We should learn a lesson from Naamun... you don't have to understand to obey. That's what faith is all about.
I wonder then why the Ethiopian Eunuch felt the need for water?
Acts 8:35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. 36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?" 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
Acts 10 also sees Peter commanding them to be baptized in water as well.
We should learn a lesson from Naamun... you don't have to understand to obey. That's what faith is all about.
glasgowchick
Gives Glory to God !!!
Hi xzist Im with you on that one, In the book of Acts, ALL were baptized .
robtex
Veteran Member
Troy I went to your website and here are some reasons after reading it not to join your church...barring the obvious distance of course.
1) The article advocates reading the bible in church. I have 5 copies at home plus access to internet copies. I am a very skilled reader and am perplexed as to why I need to go on sundays to have a book read to me that a) I have already read and b) I can read myself at home.
2) God and Jesus don't teach the sermons. While I appricate you sharing your God metaphorically with me I find it a cope-out that the true leaders of your organization fail to show. I find their apathy unspiring and a good indication as to the worth of their message.
3) Mixed messages: In the end of the first paragraph it says qoute, "The Bible clearly indicates to us the way we should follow." Obviously it does not or else there wouldn't be thousands of sects within the one religion. Besides the statement being a flat out lie it suggests that you either have not or refuse to look into the other thousands to interpretations of your bible.
4) Man is convicted by sin. In the section titled "how we join the church" it says, "man is convicted by sin" The statement holds no relevance to me or most other non-christians in society. You will find no court in the country that will convict a person "on sin " without listing the specific charges. Your God's followers assume guilt in this way without looking into the cause and reason showing both their apathy towards my life (by not bothering to look into it) and rejection of it. You can keep your abuse to your self. I am not intersted in being bullied by abrasive statements like that qoute.
5)Further down in the same section it says: " You may be redeemed but the church is not aware of it." Maybe the church should ask instead of assume. I have been in sales for a long time. I would never try to persuade anyone to buy anything or accept anything without knowing their needs first . This essayest on the other hand obvioulsy ignores the needs of those he pursues and though he admits he doen't know i they have been "redmeed" or not but doesn't bother to ascertain the info which futher shows a disregard for the others wants and needs. Highly unprofessional.
6) Go to the main site I found that the main message was eternal salvation. Two words: false advertsing: Life is finite not eternal. Every once in a while some lucky person lives to be over a 100 but nobody has even made it to 150 as far as know. Including church goers. With a success rate of zero church as failed in its promise of eternal salvation and in its arrogant manner refuses refunding on any level. What the churches get they keep..and to add insult to injury in the US it is all tax free.
Other than false promises lack of research into your target audiance and completel apathy by the head of your organziation There is no info I will find in your church that i cannot find in the comfort of my own home using a book that I have multiple copies of and internet access to.
1) The article advocates reading the bible in church. I have 5 copies at home plus access to internet copies. I am a very skilled reader and am perplexed as to why I need to go on sundays to have a book read to me that a) I have already read and b) I can read myself at home.
2) God and Jesus don't teach the sermons. While I appricate you sharing your God metaphorically with me I find it a cope-out that the true leaders of your organization fail to show. I find their apathy unspiring and a good indication as to the worth of their message.
3) Mixed messages: In the end of the first paragraph it says qoute, "The Bible clearly indicates to us the way we should follow." Obviously it does not or else there wouldn't be thousands of sects within the one religion. Besides the statement being a flat out lie it suggests that you either have not or refuse to look into the other thousands to interpretations of your bible.
4) Man is convicted by sin. In the section titled "how we join the church" it says, "man is convicted by sin" The statement holds no relevance to me or most other non-christians in society. You will find no court in the country that will convict a person "on sin " without listing the specific charges. Your God's followers assume guilt in this way without looking into the cause and reason showing both their apathy towards my life (by not bothering to look into it) and rejection of it. You can keep your abuse to your self. I am not intersted in being bullied by abrasive statements like that qoute.
5)Further down in the same section it says: " You may be redeemed but the church is not aware of it." Maybe the church should ask instead of assume. I have been in sales for a long time. I would never try to persuade anyone to buy anything or accept anything without knowing their needs first . This essayest on the other hand obvioulsy ignores the needs of those he pursues and though he admits he doen't know i they have been "redmeed" or not but doesn't bother to ascertain the info which futher shows a disregard for the others wants and needs. Highly unprofessional.
6) Go to the main site I found that the main message was eternal salvation. Two words: false advertsing: Life is finite not eternal. Every once in a while some lucky person lives to be over a 100 but nobody has even made it to 150 as far as know. Including church goers. With a success rate of zero church as failed in its promise of eternal salvation and in its arrogant manner refuses refunding on any level. What the churches get they keep..and to add insult to injury in the US it is all tax free.
Other than false promises lack of research into your target audiance and completel apathy by the head of your organziation There is no info I will find in your church that i cannot find in the comfort of my own home using a book that I have multiple copies of and internet access to.
The church is the body of Christ, so I am sad to hear you don't want to be a member of the body of Christ with resurrection eternal life to be with God in the new city and new earth. I am saddened for you.robtex said:
Where did you read this?
Jesus didn't give sermons? So how is it that we have His words in the Bible in his meetings with the disciples? Metaphorically how so? Apathy where? Can you prove your claims without sinning bearing false witness?
Don't think the unsaved have a lock on being fleshly. Christians can be fleshly as well. Don't understimate how Satan impregnates everything even the church. Early Christians believed the Antichrist would come out of the sphere of the church. The reason for this is because Christendom has deeper spiritual information, so the Antichrist will use it for wrong purposes. But suffice it to say thoguh there is always a successful remnant, but we are more like a little flock and you hardly notice us.
Other views of the Bible are easily found faulty. However, I can only address specifically something, not your vague sweeping statement.
I realize it holds no interest to you because the Bible says you are a sinner and don't mind being so. Courts convict people of sin all the time. That's why there is people in jail. Sin is very detailed and specific: there is sins against men and God. We are all guilty, for we are all sin. Nobody is sinless. Christians care for you more than anyone else, because we don't want you to go to hell. You abuse yourself. The flesh is so convoluted, it blocks your mind from realizing you are a sinner. It is too painful for you to accept, but it is true.
The church does ask all the time. That is why I ask you, do you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? If I were to lead you to Christ, I would first find out your biggest contention against Christ being God. The purpose of baptism is for you if you become saved to let the body of Christ know you are in the body of Christ. The church can't knock on everyone's door every day of the week to find out if you are saved. It is incumbent upon all believers to share with the church they are in the body through baptism. Just like all Jews did in the OT get circumcised or perhaps women could do something as well to indicate they were Jewish.
You make me laugh with your reasons.
Life is eternal. The question is either in hell or in the new city. You are made in God's image. Therefore, you can not cease to exist. Otherwise you would be just a tool to and means to an end as instrumental value to your Causer. But God treates you as intrinsic value. He values you so much if you want to go to Hell He will let you go there. He will respect your rights. He does everything to try to save you though. Since Jesus was multiply attested to resurrection, so shall we all be. He was the first.
I have eternal life right now and forever. The church does not promise eternal salvation, but God does. Those in the church have eternal salvation. This eternal life is not only eternal blessings but it is an ability to have a relationship with God. I am able to commune with God in my spirit where the Holy Spirit dwells. As I pray to the Father through the Son I do so by the Holy Spirit in my spirit. It is most joyful and peaceful.
Another reason why you will never cease to exist is because there is consequences to everything. Do not think if you nuke 10 cities, you won't pay for it. Don't think you can do anything you like and there are no consequences. If you were to just die and that is the worse consequence, then that would be completely unfair. But fortunately you committed suicide will not be a way out for you. Judgment is coming at the Great White Throne for everything you ever did, and you will be without excuse.
The outward appearance of the kingdom of heaven has in it both saved and unsaved. You would be outside the kingdom of heaven. There are many who appear to be Christians but are not in the kingdom of heaven. Be careful not to accuse true believers with the what the Bible calls the tares who try to look like the saved wheat. In this dispensation the kingdom of heaven is all you see in outwardly. It follows along the lines of the conduct of Matt. 5-7. But in the millennial kingdom-to-come it is the reward of reigning over the nations when God's overcomer believers return to reign (does not include all believers; some believers though eternally saved will lose the reward of reigning).
"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Rev. 2.26).
If you would like to study this matter of what is the Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God, this is the best description I have ever seen reflected in the Bible,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/KKH.htm
Everyone is made in God's image. Everyone is considered for salvation to help lead to Christ. Nobody ought to be excluded. The church is excited that you could come to Christ. The internet and the church being expressed there is not mutually exclusive of you reading at home. Why think so?
What Biblocality does though is something unique. It is set up as a Meeting Place Finder so if apostles can agree on a certain number of questions and grow from there, it will carry through the Church in apostles appointing elders of a locality and those elders approving of elders of meeting places in their locality.
This will happen in a momentous scale, but all in good time my friend.
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