An irrefutable proof that Jesus is God

[firedragon]

If you have a class of 20 students and 19 obey the rules but 1 causes problems by not obeying the best way to solve the problem is to remove the 1 student who does not follow the rules.

On what basis are you saying this is the best way? Any research on possible outcomes and causation information?

 

[blü 2]

Your comparison was Apollonius of the 1st century, his beliefs in the second half of the first century, and the Christian beliefs of the 1st century. So what were they? And what are the records? How do you compare these records? How do you compare the beliefs?

Thats the question. Hope you understand.

Back at #135, I said

As for miracles, let me take you down a well-trodden path:

Before he was born, a heavenly visitor told his mother her son would be divine. There were special signs in the heavens at his birth. He became an itinerant, preaching the need to focus on the divine and eternal and not the material. In time some of his followers thought he was the son of God. He healed the sick, cast out demons and raised the dead. The Roman authorities put him on trial. After his death he ascended to heaven, where he now resides, having appeared to at least one of his followers. His followers later wrote books about him.
​

All those things are attributed to Jesus by the authors of the NT. However, in this case they're attributed to Apollonius by those who wrote about him. There are various mentions of him in history, such as that various Roman emperors regarded him highly, but the chief source is Philostratus's Life of Apollonius of Tyre, written roughly around 225 CE, which draws on various writings now largely lost. A summary of the book is >here<.

 

[firedragon]

That's up to them, paarsurrey.
Where I live we are free to believe in anything.
But we are also free to speak our minds.

That's an improvement .....

A lot of people have this superiority complex stemming from "where I live".

You say this is an improvement, but what if other places in the world have other areas that are way beyond the reach of where you live (where ever it is I dont wish to know) and maybe you should be concentrating on what needs improvement but as any other person too full of themselves you would neglect that area?

 

[firedragon]

As for miracles, let me take you down a well-trodden path:

I didnt discuss miracles so not relevant.

 

[blü 2]

I didnt discuss miracles so not relevant.

My reply back in #135 wasn't addressed to you.

It's relevant here because you made it so.

 

[firedragon]

My reply back in #135 wasn't addressed to you.

It's relevant here because you made it so.

So what you are saying is that I barged into a conversation I dont know the context of. Thats fair enough. So I apologise.

Cheers.

 

[F1fan]

Great. So since my evidence is not solely the Bible, as it would be like taking up a book, reading it, and saying "Ah. The truth." without testing it against known facts, and observations or experience, your opinions are not observations, but opinions that are clearly biased.

The problem for you and other types of theists is notoriously weak evidence that frankly is insufficient to compel an objective mind that your beliefs are justified and reasonable.

That's false. See above. Also I have presented facts. Not to you, because you evidently don't care for any. You never even asked.

You, and other theists, often claim facts when you're really posting beliefs about ideas like jesus being a real person. Its not a fact that Jesus was a real person, there are arguments for this. Nor is it a fact that any supernatural phenomenon is known to be a real phenomenon. The hurdles you theists face are vastly higher than your evidence can be piled up to get over it.

It's a strawman.

Sorry but examples of fictional stories through human history IS a basis to not take fantastic Bible stories literally. I know you don't like it, but there it is.

Exactly what I mean. You've made up your mind. Are you afraid of the facts?

You don't have adequate facts to compel an objective mind that you are correct.

Why would someone be bothered about one who just has opinions... based on nothing? That makes no sense.
People are bothered about things that are meaningful, not meaningless.
Virtually all scholars support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.

Irrelevant. None of this demonstrates that supernatural phenomenon exists outside of human imagination.

What is evidence, please?

Evidence is a simple concept. It is not complicated. If you don't know what evidence is then why are you trying to argue cases?

Wind can be seen? I rest my case.

Gods cannot be seen, nor any effects attributed to gods. You lost this one, too.

Opinion noted. Unless... do you have something more than what F1fan feels like saying?

It's a fact that there is nothing in reality that correlates to the word "God". If you think that is my opinion then demonstrate real phenomenon that correlates to the word "God".

Perhaps when you explain what evidence is, we can go from there, but again, I have acknowledged your opinion.

If you are confused by the word evidence then how can you think you are capable of debate?

You seem to have a different definition for everything. Or do you just define things to support whatever you claim?
Define knowledge please.

Common definitions, they are not controversial or complicated words. You seem to dislike that your beliefs do not fir in with proper definitions. More tricky language as if being ambiguous helps your case. Note that the more confused you claim to be that more it hurts your case and your claims.

Now you are calling me an empty headed liar. Lol. You are Buddhist? I never would consider you Buddhist. You sound more Atheist.

I am an atheist. And I did not such thing. I pointed out the weaknesses you have in this debate. If you take them personally then perhaps i was accurate and you have something to learn.

I rest my case.

What I noticed in your response was not a single bit of evidence that your beliefs are true.

You rest your case and I motion for summary judgment, because your case is so weak that you want to avoid arguing for it all together.

 

[oldbadger]

A lot of people have this superiority complex stemming from "where I live".

You say this is an improvement, but what if other places in the world have other areas that are way beyond the reach of where you live (where ever it is I dont wish to know) and maybe you should be concentrating on what needs improvement but as any other person too full of themselves you would neglect that area?

If you say so

 

[firedragon]

If you say so

Nah. You said it OB. Already shown pretty explicitly. Cheers.

 

[blü 2]

So what you are saying is that I barged into a conversation I dont know the context of. Thats fair enough. So I apologise.

Cheers.

No, I have no argument with intervention in discussions as such ─ it's in the nature of forums. I'm responding to your own complaint of irrelevance.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Also an irrefutable proof.

He was in the world, and the world was created through him, and yet the world did not recognize him.

The world was created through him, because he is God.

Quick note: If jesus were god there wouldn't be "through" him but "by" him.

Jesus wouldn't be a mediator (way/intermediary/son/or the word 'of' god) to get to god if he were god.

It should be: "the world was created by him, because he is god" not through. Biblically, though, that's not the case. It's always through. Hence the need for the incarnation.

Carry on

 

[firedragon]

No, I have no argument with intervention in discussions as such ─ it's in the nature of forums. I'm responding to your own complaint of irrelevance.

How is your argument against miracles relevant to my question in that case? I was only asking exact points or more specific points based on your own comparison which you never answered to.

Anyway I guess there is no answer so now this will end up being an elastic. So ciao.

 

[blü 2]

How is your argument against miracles relevant to my question in that case?

I point out again, my initial post was not addressed to you.

I was only asking exact points or more specific points based on your own comparison which you never answered to.

Since you missed it the first two times, here it is a third time:

As for miracles, let me take you down a well-trodden path:

Before he was born, a heavenly visitor told his mother her son would be divine. There were special signs in the heavens at his birth. He became an itinerant, preaching the need to focus on the divine and eternal and not the material. In time some of his followers thought he was the son of God. He healed the sick, cast out demons and raised the dead. The Roman authorities put him on trial. After his death he ascended to heaven, where he now resides, having appeared to at least one of his followers. His followers later wrote books about him.​

and since it again appears necessary, I add that all of those things were attributed to Jesus as well ─ my own comparison, in the sense that I agree with the many earlier observations to the same effect.

 

[firedragon]

I point out again, my initial post was not addressed to you.
Since you missed it the first two times, here it is a third time:

As for miracles, let me take you down a well-trodden path:

Before he was born, a heavenly visitor told his mother her son would be divine. There were special signs in the heavens at his birth. He became an itinerant, preaching the need to focus on the divine and eternal and not the material. In time some of his followers thought he was the son of God. He healed the sick, cast out demons and raised the dead. The Roman authorities put him on trial. After his death he ascended to heaven, where he now resides, having appeared to at least one of his followers. His followers later wrote books about him.​

and since it again appears necessary, I add that all of those things were attributed to Jesus as well ─ my own comparison, in the sense that I agree with the many earlier observations to the same effect.

OK.

 

[oldbadger]

Nah. You said it OB. Already shown pretty explicitly. Cheers.

...if you say so.