An Opinion: Islam Is Not a Religion of Peace

[Debater Slayer]

Thank you for this great thread idea, @Rival. I think it is necessary to expose the misconception that Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace, or pluralism.

I have lived my entire life with Muslims in two Muslim-majority countries, and Arabic is my native language. That allows me to understand the Qur'an better than people who don't know Arabic, and it also allows me to target the bare bones of Islam instead of "arguable" teachings that are uncertain. I'm not even going to use hadiths, not even saheeh hadiths (i.e., authentic hadiths as determined by the majority of hadith scholars), to support my arguments. I'm only going to use Qur'anic verses since it is undeniable that those are parts of the religion.

First, let's take a look at the concept of Hell in Islam. This one, in my opinion, is one of the most morally repulsive aspects of the religion.

Who goes to Hell according to the Qur'an:

But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

Second, what kind of torture do those people supposedly face in the Islamic concept of Hell?

These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water

By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins.

And for [striking] them are maces of iron.

Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!"

This is Hell, which the criminals deny.

They will go around between it and scalding water, heated [to the utmost degree].

Is Paradise a better accommodation or the tree of zaqqum?

Indeed, We have made it a torment for the wrongdoers.

Indeed, it is a tree issuing from the bottom of the Hellfire,

Its emerging fruit as if it was heads of the devils.

And indeed, they will eat from it and fill with it their bellies.

Then indeed, they will have after it a mixture of scalding water.

Then indeed, their return will be to the Hellfire.

But the God of Islam is supposed to be all-merciful, right? Well, apparently not to everyone:

Those who followed will say, "If only we had another turn [at worldly life] so we could disassociate ourselves from them as they have disassociated themselves from us." Thus will Allah show them their deeds as regrets upon them. And they are never to emerge from the Fire.

Indeed, those who disbelieve - if they should have all that is in the earth and the like of it with it by which to ransom themselves from the punishment of the Day of Resurrection, it will not be accepted from them, and for them is a painful punishment

They will wish to get out of the Fire, but never are they to emerge therefrom, and for them is an enduring punishment.

And for those who disbelieve will be the fire of Hell. [Death] is not decreed for them so they may die, nor will its torment be lightened for them. Thus do we recompense every ungrateful one.

And they will cry out therein, "Our Lord, remove us; we will do righteousness - other than what we were doing!" But did We not grant you life enough for whoever would remember therein to remember, and the warner had come to you? So taste [the punishment], for there is not for the wrongdoers any helper.

Sexism in the Qur'an:

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah , his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be [too] weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its [specified] term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. For [then] there is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Let no scribe be harmed or any witness. For if you do so, indeed, it is [grave] disobedience in you. And fear Allah . And Allah teaches you. And Allah is Knowing of all things.

Lashing prescribed as a punishment in the Qur'an:

The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah , if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.

(Source of all Qur'anic translations above.)

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​

These things, at least most of them, have contexts that are clear as day. They are not from the hadith, so not even the most liberal of Qur'anist Muslims can argue that they don't exist in Islamic texts. I think that the verses about Hell and lashing alone are enough to show that Islam at its very core is neither a religion of peace nor tolerance. I even ignored the verse about cutting off thieves' hands because someone could argue that theft warrants such a punishment (which I would still disagree with).

My conclusion: Islam is not a religion of peace, and saying that it is usually means one of two things: the person who says so is either overlooking the above verses (sometimes on top of a plethora of authentic hadiths, in the case of Muslims who accept hadiths), or they see no signs of intolerance or hatred in those verses. In either case, the texts themselves don't change, further proving that the main problem of promoting intolerance and hatred lies with the religion itself, not just many of its followers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you for this great thread idea, @Rival. I think it is necessary to expose the misconception that Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace, or pluralism.

I have lived my entire life with Muslims in two Muslim-majority countries, and Arabic is my native language. That allows me to understand the Qur'an better than people who don't know Arabic, and it also allows me to target the bare bones of Islam instead of "arguable" teachings that are uncertain. I'm not even going to use hadiths, not even saheeh hadiths (i.e., authentic hadiths as determined by the majority of hadith scholars), to support my arguments. I'm only going to use Qur'anic verses since it is undeniable that those are parts of the religion.

First, let's take a look at the concept of Hell in Islam. This one, in my opinion, is one of the most morally repulsive aspects of the religion.

Who goes to Hell according to the Qur'an:





Second, what kind of torture do those people supposedly face in the Islamic concept of Hell?



























But the God of Islam is supposed to be all-merciful, right? Well, apparently not to everyone:











Sexism in the Qur'an:





Lashing prescribed as a punishment in the Qur'an:



(Source of all Qur'anic translations above.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

These things, at least most of them, have contexts that are clear as day. They are not from the hadith, so not even the most liberal of Qur'anist Muslims can argue that they don't exist in Islamic texts. I think that the verses about Hell and lashing alone are enough to show that Islam at its very core is neither a religion of peace nor tolerance. I even ignored the verse about cutting off thieves' hands because someone could argue that theft warrants such a punishment (which I would still disagree with).

My conclusion: Islam is not a religion of peace, and saying that it is usually means one of two things: the person who says so is either overlooking the above verses (sometimes on top of a plethora of authentic hadiths, in the case of Muslims who accept hadiths), or they see no signs of intolerance or hatred in those verses. In either case, the texts themselves don't change, further proving that the main problem of promoting intolerance and hatred lies with the religion itself, not just many of its followers.

When it comes to that, I usually refer to the practitioners. I live around a lot of Muslims and Christians. Both religious books have horrible things in it. I haven't met a Muslim that I would not call Muslim who does believe in peace and humility rather than the verses you posted. I mean, Nichiren Buddhism is not a "religion of peace" if you like. Nichiren says that anyone who does not adhere to the Lotus Sutra will burn in the Avichi hell, be torn up by the devils, and so forth. Lotus Sutra and many sutras say likewise.

I assume all older religions have literalism when explaining "if you don't follow me, you'll suffer the consequences." I don't see lay people practice that today. You have a lot of evangalists. Muslims arent exeptions. None of them advocate religious text in the way you presented. They see the positive parts instead. Helps them live at peace etc.

I mean, are they not Muslims if they don't "pay attention" to the verves you posted?

 

[Godobeyer]

Thank you for this great thread idea, @Rival. I think it is necessary to expose the misconception that Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace, or pluralism.

I have lived my entire life with Muslims in two Muslim-majority countries, and Arabic is my native language. That allows me to understand the Qur'an better than people who don't know Arabic, and it also allows me to target the bare bones of Islam instead of "arguable" teachings that are uncertain. I'm not even going to use hadiths, not even saheeh hadiths (i.e., authentic hadiths as determined by the majority of hadith scholars), to support my arguments. I'm only going to use Qur'anic verses since it is undeniable that those are parts of the religion.

First, let's take a look at the concept of Hell in Islam. This one, in my opinion, is one of the most morally repulsive aspects of the religion.

Who goes to Hell according to the Qur'an:





Second, what kind of torture do those people supposedly face in the Islamic concept of Hell?



























But the God of Islam is supposed to be all-merciful, right? Well, apparently not to everyone:











Sexism in the Qur'an:





Lashing prescribed as a punishment in the Qur'an:



(Source of all Qur'anic translations above.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

These things, at least most of them, have contexts that are clear as day. They are not from the hadith, so not even the most liberal of Qur'anist Muslims can argue that they don't exist in Islamic texts. I think that the verses about Hell and lashing alone are enough to show that Islam at its very core is neither a religion of peace nor tolerance. I even ignored the verse about cutting off thieves' hands because someone could argue that theft warrants such a punishment (which I would still disagree with).

My conclusion: Islam is not a religion of peace, and saying that it is usually means one of two things: the person who says so is either overlooking the above verses (sometimes on top of a plethora of authentic hadiths, in the case of Muslims who accept hadiths), or they see no signs of intolerance or hatred in those verses. In either case, the texts themselves don't change, further proving that the main problem of promoting intolerance and hatred lies with the religion itself, not just many of its followers.

again same error of Rival , God promis for disbelievers in hereafter and His laws .

some of His laws practice only on Muslims as Zakat ..;etc

even that you know Arabic or was Muslim .
you skipp the Tafsir , which HIGHLY recommanded and important to understand Quran ,

 

[Debater Slayer]

again same error of Rival , God promis for disbelievers in hereafter and His laws .

I know that; that's exactly what I said in my post. I don't think disbelief should be punishable at all, let alone by eternal torture.

And what are "His laws," in your belief?

some of His laws practice only on Muslims as Zakat ..;etc

even that you know Arabic or was Muslim .
you skipp the Tafsir , which HIGHLY recommanded and important to understand Quran ,

Again, I know these things. I didn't mention zakat in my post at all either.

 

[Debater Slayer]

When it comes to that, I usually refer to the practitioners. I live around a lot of Muslims and Christians. Both religious books have horrible things in it. I haven't met a Muslim that I would not call Muslim who does believe in peace and humility rather than the verses you posted. I mean, Nichiren Buddhism is not a "religion of peace" if you like. Nichiren says that anyone who does not adhere to the Lotus Sutra will burn in the Avichi hell, be torn up by the devils, and so forth. Lotus Sutra and many sutras say likewise.

I assume all older religions have literalism when explaining "if you don't follow me, you'll suffer the consequences." I don't see lay people practice that today. You have a lot of evangalists. Muslims arent exeptions. None of them advocate religious text in the way you presented. They see the positive parts instead. Helps them live at peace etc.

I mean, are they not Muslims if they don't "pay attention" to the verves you posted?

I know many peaceful Muslims too (in the sense that they don't engage in violence against non-Muslims). However, I think it should be noted that most of them do believe in eternal Hell for non-believers, so they don't reject the verses I posted. Furthermore, most of them are homophobic and support things like stoning and lashing. Those are not peaceful things. Not engaging in violence yourself doesn't automatically make you peaceful. I know supporters of bin Laden who don't engage in violence. Does that mean they are totally peaceful Muslims? I would certainly argue against that.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

She didn't read my post so you might take the time to read this.

People confuse culture with religion. Should we say all Buddhists are bad because of what happens in Burma? And there were Zoroastrians in the past that harmed others. There is good and bad in almost every religious group. I already know good Muslims and they don't convert me. Muslims in Kazakhstan don't behave the same way as the ones in Egypt. So allow me to explain there are good Muslims. I think people should stop trying to justify hating them. No logic or good comes out of that. PLEASE read this carefully. It's what I said in another thread.

There are some that not only condemn it openly and also fight against it. The United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Nigeria, Chad, ect, all Muslims majority countries have been actively fighting against Boko Haram and ISIS, two Islamic terrorist groups. If that's not enough proof that they condemn it, I don't know what is. Most Muslims don't do terrorist activities. Most people in GENERAL don't do this. It is strange because some people will say "Muslims don't condemn Islamic terrorism!" so loud, they can't hear the Muslims that ARE condemning it.

People will try to justify hating it due to the Quran because there's some bad stuff in it. Yeah, like there isn't messed up stuff in the Torah, New Testament? Even some Hindu and Dharmic scriptures have messed up stuff in it. Those books have both good and bad stuff in it. They will say that Muslims should be punished for what their ancestors did, but that's not good either. You don't punish people for what their ancestors did.

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

"Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam.

"There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]"

Pay the poor-due. 2:43, 110, 277
Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 2:83
If you believe it, prove it. 2:111
The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 2:113
Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 2:177
Do not fight wars of aggression. 2:190
"Do good." 2:195
Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215
Help orphans. 2:220
"Make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to ... making peace among mankind." 2:224
"If the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then (let there be) postponement to (the time of) ease." 2:280
Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66
Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130
I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 3:195
Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10
Men and women proceed from one another. 4:25
"Kill not one another." 4:29
Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 4:36
Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. 4:85
If someone says Hi to you say Hi (or Howdy) back to them. 4:86
It is good to help the poor and make peace. 4:114
Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 4:135
Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 4:161
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion."
Other translations render this "O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith." (Amen to that!) 4:171
Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 5:8
Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.
(But see the next verse which says that the enemies of Allah and Muhammad will be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, or expelled. And after they die they will face "an awful doom.") 5:32
Pay the poor-due. 5:55
Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 5:89
Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 6:151
Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 6:152
Pay the poor-due. 7:156
Be kind and forgiving toward others. 7:199
And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it. 8:61
Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 9:71
"We see thee [Noah] but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us - nay, we deem you liars." 11:27
"Do not evil in the earth."
Treat people fairly, respect their possessions, and avoid evil. 11:85
Be kind to your relatives. 16:90
Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 17:23
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 17:26
Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 17:31
Don't steal from orphans. 17:34
Don't follow what you don't know. 17:36
"Speak that which is kindlier." 17:53
"Increase me in knowledge." 20:114
Feed the poor and unfortunate. 22:28
Don't lie. 22:30
Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 22:41
Pay the poor-due. 22:78
Pay the poor-due. 23:4
Repel evil with that which is better. 23:96
Pay the poor-due. 24:37, 24:56
"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom."
Allah encourages you to set your slaves free if they are good enough. And don't pimp out your slave-girls (concubines). 24:33
Repel evil with good. 28:54
Be kind to your parents. 29:8
Men and women should help each other with love an mercy. 30:21
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarers. 30:38
Pay the poor-due. 31:4
"Be modest in thy bearing and subdue thy voice." 31:19
"Speak words straight to the point."
Say what you mean; mean what you say. 33:70
Good and evil are not the same. Repel evil with goodness. That way your enemies will become your friends. 41:34
Be loving and kind to your relatives. 42:23
It is wrong to oppress people. 42:42
Live peacefully with disbelievers. 43:88-89
Be kind to your parents. 46:15
Don't defame, insult, spy on, or backbite one another.. 49:11-12
Give of your wealth to help the poor. 51:19
"A guess can never take the place of the truth." 53:28
Pay the poor-due. 58:13
Pay the poor-due. 73:20
Don't defraud. 83:1-3
Free a slave, feed the hungry, and exhort one another to pity. 90:13-17
Don't oppress orphans or drive away beggars. 93:9-10
Pay the poor-due. That is true religion. 98:5
Let each person believe (or disbelieve) whatever he or she wishes. 109:1, 6

There's good and bad stuff in there like many holy scriptures. You may as well say most scriptures are not peaceful. Most books like the Quran were written by multiple people. some peaceful and some were control freaks and some quotes were taken out of context. You should know full well there are good and bad Muslims out there.

 

[Godobeyer]

know that; that's exactly what I said in my post. I don't think disbelief should be punishable at all, let alone by eternal torture.

And what are "His laws," in your belief?

His laws which some run over Muslims and some both non-Muslims and Muslims .
in this life and hereafter .

I don't think that who ignore Islam (don't hear about Islam) will punished . (God know best) .

eternal torture is His decision , it's like eternal death or eternal life , eternal happeness .
so His decision to eternal punishement is His judge over disbelievers . as human punish we each other for betraying , by eternal jail .

Again, I know these things. I didn't mention zakat in my post at all either.

you know of course that we (Muslims ) used Tafsir to explain Quran ?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I know many peaceful Muslims too (in the sense that they don't engage in violence against non-Muslims). However, I think it should be noted that most of them do believe in eternal Hell for non-believers, so they don't reject the verses I posted. Furthermore, most of them are homophobic and support things like stoning and lashing. Those are not peaceful things. Not engaging in violence yourself doesn't automatically make you peaceful. I know supporters of bin Laden who don't engage in violence. Does that mean they are totally peaceful Muslims? I would certainly argue against that.

In America, Muslims don't stone. A lot of them don't believe in that on a modern 2015 level. I dont know about other countries.

No Abrahamic book I have read, reads of peace without some discord for people who do not adhere to their faith. A lot of times I rather be around the people. For some reason, if they can see the peace in their books, hopefully the irony of it all, will make the world a better place.

There is a lot of stuff in Abrahamic scriptures. I don't know if you are saying Muslims should see that way when I know many younger Muslims do not. I'm actually glad they don't put to practie and believe that part of their Quran. Makes life more simple.

 

[Godobeyer]

She didn't read my post so you might take the time to read this.
.

she probly read it and DS know it .

 

[Debater Slayer]

She didn't read my post so you might take the time to read this.

People confuse culture with religion. Should we say all Buddhists are bad because of what happens in Burma? And there were Zoroastrians in the past that harmed others. There is good and bad in almost every religious group. I already know good Muslims and they don't convert me. Muslims in Kazakhstan don't behave the same way as the ones in Egypt. So allow me to explain there are good Muslims. I think people should stop trying to justify hating them. No logic or good comes out of that. PLEASE read this carefully. It's what I said in another thread.

There are some that not only condemn it openly and also fight against it. The United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Nigeria, Chad, ect, all Muslims majority countries have been actively fighting against Boko Haram and ISIS, two Islamic terrorist groups. If that's not enough proof that they condemn it, I don't know what is. Most Muslims don't do terrorist activities. Most people in GENERAL don't do this. It is strange because some people will say "Muslims don't condemn Islamic terrorism!" so loud, they can't hear the Muslims that ARE condemning it.

First off, nowhere in my post did I even try to imply that most Muslims accept terrorism. I was careful not to use that argument in my post, so the above has no relevance to what I said.

People will try to justify hating it due to the Quran because there's some bad stuff in it. Yeah, like there isn't messed up stuff in the Torah, New Testament? Even some Hindu and Dharmic scriptures have messed up stuff in it. Those books have both good and bad stuff in it. They will say that Muslims should be punished for what their ancestors did, but that's not good either. You don't punish people for what their ancestors did.

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

"Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam.

This is just a series of straw men.

1) I didn't say that Muslims should be punished for anything. I'm only criticizing the religion itself. The two should not be confused.

2) I specifically avoided mentioning apostasy because it is one of those topics that are uncertain and debated in Islam, unlike the crystal-clear verses about the punishment for non-believers.

3) I didn't argue against hadiths in my post, so all of the above still has no relevance to what I actually posted.

4) What I'm saying is that the "us vs. them" mentality propagated throughout many Qur'anic verses helps to foster intolerance and hatred. When you demonize groups of people enough to believe that they deserve eternal torture, you are naturally at the point where you have developed at least some contempt for them. The Qur'an is particularly good at demonizing non-believers, as is apparent in the verses I posted.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Continuing from the previous post due to the character limit.

"There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]"

Pay the poor-due. 2:43, 110, 277
Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 2:83
If you believe it, prove it. 2:111
The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 2:113
Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 2:177
Do not fight wars of aggression. 2:190
"Do good." 2:195
Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215
Help orphans. 2:220
"Make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to ... making peace among mankind." 2:224
"If the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then (let there be) postponement to (the time of) ease." 2:280
Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66
Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130
I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 3:195
Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10
Men and women proceed from one another. 4:25
"Kill not one another." 4:29
Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 4:36
Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. 4:85
If someone says Hi to you say Hi (or Howdy) back to them. 4:86
It is good to help the poor and make peace. 4:114
Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 4:135
Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 4:161
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion."
Other translations render this "O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith." (Amen to that!) 4:171
Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 5:8
Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.
(But see the next verse which says that the enemies of Allah and Muhammad will be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, or expelled. And after they die they will face "an awful doom.") 5:32
Pay the poor-due. 5:55
Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 5:89
Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 6:151
Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 6:152
Pay the poor-due. 7:156
Be kind and forgiving toward others. 7:199
And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it. 8:61
Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 9:71
"We see thee [Noah] but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us - nay, we deem you liars." 11:27
"Do not evil in the earth."
Treat people fairly, respect their possessions, and avoid evil. 11:85
Be kind to your relatives. 16:90
Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 17:23
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 17:26
Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 17:31
Don't steal from orphans. 17:34
Don't follow what you don't know. 17:36
"Speak that which is kindlier." 17:53
"Increase me in knowledge." 20:114
Feed the poor and unfortunate. 22:28
Don't lie. 22:30
Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 22:41
Pay the poor-due. 22:78
Pay the poor-due. 23:4
Repel evil with that which is better. 23:96
Pay the poor-due. 24:37, 24:56
"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom."
Allah encourages you to set your slaves free if they are good enough. And don't pimp out your slave-girls (concubines). 24:33
Repel evil with good. 28:54
Be kind to your parents. 29:8
Men and women should help each other with love an mercy. 30:21
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarers. 30:38
Pay the poor-due. 31:4
"Be modest in thy bearing and subdue thy voice." 31:19
"Speak words straight to the point."
Say what you mean; mean what you say. 33:70
Good and evil are not the same. Repel evil with goodness. That way your enemies will become your friends. 41:34
Be loving and kind to your relatives. 42:23
It is wrong to oppress people. 42:42
Live peacefully with disbelievers. 43:88-89
Be kind to your parents. 46:15
Don't defame, insult, spy on, or backbite one another.. 49:11-12
Give of your wealth to help the poor. 51:19
"A guess can never take the place of the truth." 53:28
Pay the poor-due. 58:13
Pay the poor-due. 73:20
Don't defraud. 83:1-3
Free a slave, feed the hungry, and exhort one another to pity. 90:13-17
Don't oppress orphans or drive away beggars. 93:9-10
Pay the poor-due. That is true religion. 98:5
Let each person believe (or disbelieve) whatever he or she wishes. 109:1, 6

There's good and bad stuff in there like many holy scriptures. You may as well say most scriptures are not peaceful. Most books like the Quran were written by multiple people. some peaceful and some were control freaks and some quotes were taken out of context. You should know full well there are good and bad Muslims out there.

Another straw man.

1) I have never said that all of Islam's teachings are harmful. I believe that many are, but not all of them.

2) I know that there are good and bad Muslims. Again, my arguments are about the religion itself and its effects on people's behaviors. There are good Muslims, sure, but that doesn't mean the religion doesn't inspire hatred and intolerance in a lot of people. Most of the Muslim world is homophobic, for example, and homosexuals are heavily persecuted in almost every single Muslim-majority country. We are talking about hundreds of millions of people who all persecute homosexuals. The only constant among those people is Islam. "Good" and "bad" are not measured using flat scales. One may be "good" in one area but "bad" in another; millions of Muslims accept Christians and live with them but persecute homosexuals. Millions of Muslims don't support violence against non-believers but support blasphemy laws for those who insult the religion. It's not a black-and-white scale.

 

[Debater Slayer]

In America, Muslims don't stone. A lot of them don't believe in that on a modern 2015 level. I dont know about other countries.

No Abrahamic book I have read, reads of peace without some discord for people who do not adhere to their faith. A lot of times I rather be around the people. For some reason, if they can see the peace in their books, hopefully the irony of it all, will make the world a better place.

There is a lot of stuff in Abrahamic scriptures. I don't know if you are saying Muslims should see that way when I know many younger Muslims do not. I'm actually glad they don't put to practie and believe that part of their Quran. Makes life more simple.

Most Muslims here don't stone either, but they support implementing the punishment into state law.

Note that I'm talking about the majority of Muslims. Obviously not all Muslims believe in the things I posted, but I would argue that the majority do. It varies from place to place; I'm mainly talking about the Middle East, which is where most Muslim-majority countries are.

 

[Debater Slayer]

His laws which some run over Muslims and some both non-Muslims and Muslims .
in this life and hereafter .

I don't think that who ignore Islam (don't hear about Islam) will punished . (God know best) .

eternal torture is His decision , it's like eternal death or eternal life , eternal happeness .
so His decision to eternal punishement is His judge over disbelievers . as human punish we each other for betraying , by eternal jail .

So I'm not wrong when I say that the verses I quoted teach that non-believers will face horrendous torture for eternity.

you know of course that we (Muslims ) used Tafsir to explain Quran ?

Yes, I do.

 

[Godobeyer]

So I'm not wrong when I say that the verses I quoted teach that non-believers will face horrendous torture for eternity.

disbelievers whom heard about Islam very well, but they disagree with (you for exemple) ,Yes you are correct .

disbelievers whom heard about Islam from ISIS ....etc they delusioned , you may wrong , because God is prefect Justice

disbeleivers whom never heard about Islam , you may wrong , becaue God is perfect Justice

Yes, I do.

good

 

[Theweirdtophat]

First off, nowhere in my post did I even try to imply that most Muslims accept terrorism. I was careful not to use that argument in my post, so the above has no relevance to what I said.



This is just a series of straw men.

1) I didn't say that Muslims should be punished for anything. I'm only criticizing the religion itself. The two should not be confused.

2) I specifically avoided mentioning apostasy because it is one of those topics that are uncertain and debated in Islam, unlike the crystal-clear verses about the punishment for non-believers.

3) I didn't argue against hadiths in my post, so all of the above still has no relevance to what I actually posted.

4) What I'm saying is that the "us vs. them" mentality propagated throughout many Qur'anic verses helps to foster intolerance and hatred. When you demonize groups of people enough to believe that they deserve eternal torture, you are naturally at the point where you have developed at least some contempt for them. The Qur'an is particularly good at demonizing non-believers, as is apparent in the verses I posted.

I wish people would stop saying "straw men" every single time. It's lost meaning now. What good does it do to criticize the religion itself? You have every right, but what do you gain from it. Most Muslims don't participate in that behavior, so what's the point? You acted as if the book has nothing but bad stuff when it clearly has good stuff such as the quotes I mentioned

What were you trying to gain by criticizing behaviors that Muslims don't usually participate in?

 

[allfoak]

First, let's take a look at the concept of Hell in Islam. This one, in my opinion, is one of the most morally repulsive aspects of the religion.

This is nothing but how you interpret the passages that you conveniently pull out of context.
I could do the same thing with the Christian book.

By the way, both books have the same origin.
But you will never be able to understand that because you think these books are literal
.
You say one thing someone else says another.
In the end It's all just something that is made up.
Misinterpreted because the books are not understood to be allegory.

 

[Useless2015]

-Hell is the outcome of your own decision so /care.
-Jesus says that non-believers will be thrown in eternal fire but he is a nice guy tho right?
-God is merciful to believers aka not you so /care again.
-That is not sexism, those are facts according to science.
- If there is any sexism it is the West where woman and girls are being brainwashed to think the sluttier they dress the more 'pretty' they are.
Women are being used as an object in the West and somehow Islam is against women because women are not judged based on how they look.
I feel sorry for women in the West who actually think women are treated equal .

 

[Parsimony]

-That is not sexism, those are facts according to science.

 

[Straw Dog]

There can be beneficial and harmful interpretations of scripture all across the board. The bigger problem with holy books may be that many of us are essentially being held hostage by literature. This prevents us for living and reasoning clearly within the present context. What are we actually doing right here-now?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Most Muslims here don't stone either, but they support implementing the punishment into state law.

Note that I'm talking about the majority of Muslims. Obviously not all Muslims believe in the things I posted, but I would argue that the majority do. It varies from place to place; I'm mainly talking about the Middle East, which is where most Muslim-majority countries are.

You're right. It does vary by place. I was told in Dubai tourists can get arrested for not wearing proper religious clothing (men and women). In the U.S., Muslim college students barely wear religious clothing. I was told it was somewhat optional in the U.S. based on ones preference in how devoted they are.