Ancestor Reverence... Or lack there of

[EyeofOdin]

I was talking to my cousin who is a Christian, and we were talking about the Abrahamic faiths and their similarities and differences. She noted that the Muslims worship the same deity, but they come from a different "line" from Abraham than the Jews and Christians.

I couldn't help but think "are you kidding me? Your 'line'?" I couldn't respond.

We (Americans and Europeans) live in a contemporary culture that believes that all Christians are to honor their "Abrahamic ancestry". I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as a European Abrahamic Ancestry. Sure, the Europeans intermingled and maybe some people today have an ancestor far into their line who believed that Abraham existed and traced his or her lineage to him, but for the most part, your ancestry lies in people you call "pagans".

This is what results from genocide and forceful conversions onto a people. A people who believe that their ancestry is wrong and the ancestry of the converters is right. We now have Scandinavians, Germans, Irish people, Italians, Spaniards, French people who believe that they are the result of a different people, different culture and that they were the ones fighting the "filthy heathens".

Maybe I'm the crazy one, but doesn't all of this seem a bit... off? It's like our modern culture is like an episode of the twilight zone, where everyone has bought into this lie that we all are Israelites who spread throughout the world.

Not that there's anything wrong with people of middle eastern descent nor is there anything wrong with Christianity, but there is something wrong with completely abandoning your ancestors for the people who killed them, being indoctrinated and developing some sort of cultural stock hold syndrome.

 

[Caladan]

Since this is the European religions DIR, I do not want to engage in a debate. However I believe you are guilty of the same by lumping different European cultures together as if they were a single body. Especially since the theological narrative is not that [white] Western civilization is descendant from the Israelites (at least objectively), in fact the People of Israel were one nation among many other cultures and civilizations in the Near East itself. What the European cultures inherited is a faith, cultural norms, and other elements. And in this regard Western Christian civilization certainly fought the heathens bitterly. In addition, even so called 'European' pagan civilizations appropriated the pagan gods of other European (and non European) cultures into their own religion in a bid to subjugate them.

 

[EyeofOdin]

Since this is the European religions DIR, I do not want to engage in a debate. However I believe you are guilty of the same by lumping different European cultures together as if they were a single body. Especially since the theological narrative is not that [white] Western civilization is descendant from the Israelites (at least objectively), in fact the People of Israel were one nation among many other cultures and civilizations in the Near East itself. What the European cultures inherited is a faith, cultural norms, and other elements. And in this regard Western Christian civilization certainly fought the heathens bitterly. In addition, even so called 'European' pagan civilizations appropriated the pagan gods of other European (and non European) cultures into their own religion in a bid to subjugate them.

I think that you're misunderstanding my stance. I actually completely agree with all that you're saying. Europeans did mingle with each other and with other peoples, particularly of North Africa and West Asia.

My issue is the fact that we have people who have been indoctrinated into another belief system and adopt THAT heritage and THAT ancestry and disregard their own as evil and primitive. They didn't adopt monotheism willingly. They fought it and were killed for fighting it.

I didn't mean to "lump" European cultures into one category by the way, I was just using an example, as that one is closest to my as most of my ancestry and most of my family is of Europeans. This also applies to people who are of African descent, Native American etc.

 

[Caladan]

Since this is a DIR, I would not mind if you give me permission to quote your beginning post at a later stage in order to discuss it in one of our opened debate forums, since I disagree with some of your historical, cultural, or even geographical assumptions.

 

[Sees]

It is the One Ring to Rule Them All scenario...they decided it would be Christianity that is the One Ring.

I understand the frustration. There are some people (members here even) who's ancestors were force converted and they believe strongly that it was the best thing that could have happened to them...that their ancestors did have corrupt, demon worshipping ways.

Slow and easy education to an open mind that peaks out from the box is the only way to change such things. Most are so removed by centuries that the last 400-1,600 years was enough for Christianity to become theirs and to build a new culture with it as.the cornerstone. Anything that seems like you want to make their walls fall down will scare them. They have to be looking for a new building or to expand their minds and possibly re-imagine the past, present, or future in a different light.

 

[Quintessence]

Are you sure that by "line" they meant biological heritage and not intellectual or philosophical ancestry?

 

[EyeofOdin]

Are you sure that by "line" they meant biological heritage and not intellectual or philosophical ancestry?

I'm not sure, I didn't ask, but we were also talking about ancestry and ancestor veneration, so probably.