Ancestors - how do you relate to them?

[Treks]

Hello again

If you're anything like me, you are a bit of a genetic mutt, with a generalised idea of your heritage. For example, I know my mother's side is Scottish/English and my father's side German and possibly Norman (tracing the history of my surname).

I myself am a fourth generation 'Australian' (whatever that means...).

How do you conceptualise your ancestors, in this case? I never really new my maternal grandparents - they died when I was too young. It's also a bit of a mystery because my grandfather was adopted. I have quite a good family tree on my maternal grandmother's side, though.

My paternal grandmother's heritage is definitely German, but my grandfather's is a bit of a mystery, hence tracing my surname, which appears to have first appeared in Normandy.

Obviously we all have ancestors, or we wouldn't be here. But how do you visualise/conceptualise/identify/honour them with such mixed and fuzzy history?

Many thanks

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have the exact same question. I just don't know my family. None of my mother's side wants to tell anything about our heritage. The Elders have a lot of pictures since the 1900s of family members and wouldn't give my aunts and I a single picture or name. Just a tour around the room of antiques and such that we can't (or at least I, since I dont drive) again given its almost 24 hours away from where I live and they live out in the middle of now where South Carolina.

What made it click for me was when my grandmother passed last November. I didn't know her too well either; but, I knew her through her sons and daughters.. sisters and brothers... and such. So, she is already like an ancestor to me because of how far away she is and yet she is so close.

I usually talk with her and my other grandmother who passed in 96. I known her very well. They tell me about my ancestors--at least I try to hear them.

Have you talked with your paternal grandparents? I know spirits live on the land they die on. Maybe look at where you were born and raised. What is there history there? Especially where you are born.

For me, most my family are Christian. So, the best I honor them is going to Mass or playing gospel music. Probably figure out what your family likes. Maybe, like my family, there may be a trail of interest and beliefs that have not changed after so many years.

I wish I could help more. I'm figuring it out myself.

Hello again

If you're anything like me, you are a bit of a genetic mutt, with a generalised idea of your heritage. For example, I know my mother's side is Scottish/English and my father's side German and possibly Norman (tracing the history of my surname).

I myself am a fourth generation 'Australian' (whatever that means...).

How do you conceptualise your ancestors, in this case? I never really new my maternal grandparents - they died when I was too young. It's also a bit of a mystery because my grandfather was adopted. I have quite a good family tree on my maternal grandmother's side, though.

My paternal grandmother's heritage is definitely German, but my grandfather's is a bit of a mystery, hence tracing my surname, which appears to have first appeared in Normandy.

Obviously we all have ancestors, or we wouldn't be here. But how do you visualise/conceptualise/identify/honour them with such mixed and fuzzy history?

Many thanks

 

[George-ananda]

Hello again

If you're anything like me, you are a bit of a genetic mutt, with a generalised idea of your heritage. For example, I know my mother's side is Scottish/English and my father's side German and possibly Norman (tracing the history of my surname).

I myself am a fourth generation 'Australian' (whatever that means...).

How do you conceptualise your ancestors, in this case? I never really new my maternal grandparents - they died when I was too young. It's also a bit of a mystery because my grandfather was adopted. I have quite a good family tree on my maternal grandmother's side, though.

My paternal grandmother's heritage is definitely German, but my grandfather's is a bit of a mystery, hence tracing my surname, which appears to have first appeared in Normandy.

Obviously we all have ancestors, or we wouldn't be here. But how do you visualise/conceptualise/identify/honour them with such mixed and fuzzy history?

Many thanks

Well, I'm also interested by the same things. I'm American; half Italian; quarter Portuguese; quarter Polish.

I wonder if in two or three more generations from now if anyone will trace it or care,

 

[Jainarayan]

I know you all probably never get tired of hearing this.

I'm not exactly sure yet who my ancestors are. I should know in about 8 weeks, but from a genetic standpoint, not who they were as individuals. Like @Treks I have some reason to believe that my Sicilian and possibly southern Italian ancestors were of Norman descent. This supposition is based on my surname, and where in Sicily my paternal grandparents were from. To this day the region around Palermo has 99% of the people in Sicily with my surname. The Palermo region is where the Normans held the most sway.

My family tree is really just a stump... we have no information about my paternal great-grandparents, and almost none about my maternal great-grandparents. All I know of my great-grandmother is that she died young before shipping my grandmother off to the US to live with relatives here. I don't even know my great-grandmother's name. My maternal grandfather came to the US as a teenager also. My paternal grandparents died before I was born. My maternal grandfather died when I was 9, my grandmother died when I was 17.

As far as whom I revere as ancestors, I just think of a nebulous group of people who were probably farmers, peasants, day workers, laborers and such. I have a small picture of a Viking longship on my altar as a nod to who may be my ancestors. I don't know why, but I feel a strong kinship to the Norse. Admittedly it may be wishful thinking and romanticizing my history. I may find out I have little or no connection to them. On the other hand they were like [you know what goes here], they were everywhere. It's probably precious few people of European descent who are not descended from the Norse or other Germanics to some extent.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Hello again

If you're anything like me, you are a bit of a genetic mutt, with a generalised idea of your heritage. For example, I know my mother's side is Scottish/English and my father's side German and possibly Norman (tracing the history of my surname).

I myself am a fourth generation 'Australian' (whatever that means...).

How do you conceptualise your ancestors, in this case? I never really new my maternal grandparents - they died when I was too young. It's also a bit of a mystery because my grandfather was adopted. I have quite a good family tree on my maternal grandmother's side, though.

My paternal grandmother's heritage is definitely German, but my grandfather's is a bit of a mystery, hence tracing my surname, which appears to have first appeared in Normandy.

Obviously we all have ancestors, or we wouldn't be here. But how do you visualise/conceptualise/identify/honour them with such mixed and fuzzy history?

Many thanks

Hi, I'm perhaps out of place here, as I'm not Asatru, but as a practicing animist with a considerable genetic component from Northern and Western Europe, perhaps I qualify on those grounds. I sympathize with your challenge, but I've got the opposite problem: For roughly the last 25 years I've been researching my ancestory, which down most lines we can trace back at least to those who arrived from Europe, although there are still a few dead ends, and a couple of lines that continue, but are questionable. One of the lines, according to one version of the family tree that I found online, can be traced all the way back to Asgard ("In Eastern Europe or Asia," the source says); personally, I have doubts about this line before the 1500s, or maybe the 1200s, but you never know... Despite knowing what I do know, I still have no idea how to really incorporate veneration of my ancestors into my practices. My parents are still living, I only knew 2 of the four grands (and a couple of their siblings--none very well in any case), and I currently live nowhere near where any of those families lived, or tracing back, originated.

As with you, Treks, any suggestions on how to incorporate my ancestry into my practice would be welcome.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have an idea. This is what I do. I write to my ancestral spirits. Since they are a part of us and we them whatever you have the earge to give them that is them talking through you. You become a medium.

In Mehayana buddhism we each have a buddha nature. our true nature (not meyahana teaching) is of those in the past. Our parents. So whatever we learned or interests that we have that we feel is innate is the spirits talking. Meditation is good to hear them.

They will tell you how to honor them and i notice they tell you how not to too.

 

[Toxikmynd]

Just to comment on the last name part, simple, a name can hold little to no meaning of where you come from. That doesn't mean it isn't a valid starting point though! My last name is English, but I have hardly any English blood in me and am mostly Irish, Scottish, Basque, some French, German Dutch Belgian and finally Mikma'q Native American! Yet one of the Scottish clans I hail from started in Norway and moved to the Isle of Man, eventually becoming royalty there and then moved to Scotland to increase reign, never to return! (The Isle is tiny anyway!)

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Many of my recent ancestors on my maternal side were very cruel, strict and treated my mom horribly. Meanwhile I know literally nothing about my dad's ancestors, nor does he, though I've wanted to learn for years. For these reasons I don't really do anything involving ancestors.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm kind of the bad Heathen in this matter, since I don't pay much mind to my genetic ancestors, except my Great Great Grandmother who came from Ireland. See, she came as a teenager (leaving her whole family behind), and then in her old age remained a devout Catholic (because Irish) but still owned a motorcycle. That is awesome.

Though this is largely because I don't actually know who my genetic ancestors are. Beyond my grandparents, I really don't know who's who beyond some names and that my aforementioned GG-Grandmother married someone here with the name "Houck", which apparently links me to one of England's noble houses of the same name (albeit a VERY obscure one that's hard to find any info on).

 

[Jainarayan]

Not to worry, I'm slack in the ancestors dept. too, even having found some information. Through Ancestry.com I've been able to trace my paternal grandmother's line (both of her lines) back to my 3rd great-grandparents. One was born in the mid-late 1700s. I have names and dates, but nothing else for them. I have my maternal great-grandparents' names and pictures provided by a 2nd cousin I met through Ancestry.com! Our grandparents were brother and sister.

But being the bad Heathen and Special Snowflake that I am I feel a closer connection to the gods than I do to the ancestors and even the wights. Maybe it's Christian and/or Hindu baggage in feeling closer to the gods. I made an ancestor's shrine with pictures of my parents, those great-grandparents and a few other family members. I put an offering almost every morning (black coffee... they were Italian, after all ) and I do think about them and wonder. But as for going to them for help, I cannot understand how, if they did not or could not help or know me in life, they could help or know me after they're dead.

Btw, the "rule" as I learned is that about the only ancestors you would go to for help or would actively venerate would be no further back than your great-grandparents, because it's entirely possible to have known them in life. I, however, am ancestrally-challenged.

 

[peanutbutter63]

To the original question, I never did and I still don't. With my background as a SouthEast Asian, I'd hate to find out that I'm related to pirates of both north and south China seas or the other sides of the seaboard...men who raped, pillaged, and plundered. I'd also hate to find out whether I'm related in anyway to unbelievably cruel tyrants who rules empires, who were careless and ignorant of the needs of the poor, common folk. Ancestor-worship...ugh!..yuk!..

And then, there are those who regard the Gods, dwarves/elves, landvaettir/land-spirits as their ancestors. Each to his own, I guess. I don't think I really need to elevate myself to supernatural status (or be special above other humans) the way Ottar below (in boar form) tried in establishing his lineage...

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

As long as they weren't a rapist, slaver or something really awful like that (which would be pretty likely tbh) I'd find pirate heritage to be kinda cool. I have something of a fondness for the golden age of piracy.

A tyrannical imperialist... now that would be a bummer! Wouldn't be too far afield from my maternal grandmother though... :-/

 

[Aupmanyav]

But how do you visualise/conceptualise/identify/honour them with such mixed and fuzzy history.

Ours is not at all fuzzy going back to at least 3,000 years. Brahmins interested in studies. My grandfather established the tradition of the family which we try to maintain. Know in detail about my family, have visited our ancestral house in Srinagar, Kashmir, which my great-grandfather left a hundred and fifty years ago. Have met the family of my great grandmother. Have seen my maternal great grandmother. That is my inheritance. As for honoring them, I consider it very important, firstly it is a matter of heart, secondly we have two fortnights in a year when we are to ritually honor the ancestors, fast, and donate in their memory. This has to be done according to the Hindu lunar calendar, but my wife takes care to tell me the remembrance days of my ancestors. I honor my great-grandparents, my grandparents, my father, a brother who we lost in his childhood and my maternal grandparents, that is eight people and one more for all unnamed ancestors before them.

I am sorry to realize that these traditions will last only till my life and not continue with my son and his children, though it will continue in my daughter's family for some more time.

 

[Riverwolf]

As long as they weren't a rapist, slaver or something really awful like that (which would be pretty likely tbh) I'd find pirate heritage to be kinda cool. I have something of a fondness for the golden age of piracy.

A tyrannical imperialist... now that would be a bummer! Wouldn't be too far afield from my maternal grandmother though... :-/

Go back far enough, and we're descended from slaver and slave alike.

 

[Jainarayan]

With my background as a SouthEast Asian, I'd hate to find out that I'm related to pirates of both north and south China seas or the other sides of the seaboard...men who raped, pillaged, and plundered. I'd also hate to find out whether I'm related in anyway to unbelievably cruel tyrants who rules empires, who were careless and ignorant of the needs of the poor, common folk. Ancestor-worship...ugh!..yuk!..

That shouldn't enter into the equation. As bad, horrible, despicable and reprehensible as those people may have been, they still contributed to you being here. Based on that alone they are worthy of veneration. I know that's a bitter pill to swallow, but almost any long-time Heathen or ancestor-worshiper will say that. That is the answer I've gotten.

 

[Toxikmynd]

I know this is pretty severe but even if I was related to Joseph Stalin or Erwin Rommel I'd venerate them. Even though being blood is considered 2nd to loyalty in this modern world, loyalty should come with being blood automatically.
As a heathen I like to live what I believe so even though say my cousin is an alcoholic and a liar, I'd still help him if I could.
My parents won't talk to him, but I would.
Reason being is that he is family and I won't let a headache or greed get in the way of that.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Didn't Rommel want Hitler deposed and refused to kill Jews? He ended up killing himself rather than be captured and killed for his defiance. He strikes me as an honest guy who wanted to serve his country and became horrified when he found out what his government really wanted.

 

[Riverwolf]

I know this is pretty severe but even if I was related to Joseph Stalin or Erwin Rommel I'd venerate them. Even though being blood is considered 2nd to loyalty in this modern world, loyalty should come with being blood automatically.
As a heathen I like to live what I believe so even though say my cousin is an alcoholic and a liar, I'd still help him if I could.
My parents won't talk to him, but I would.
Reason being is that he is family and I won't let a headache or greed get in the way of that.

And that's fine. There's plenty of merit to following that.

For me, though, I wouldn't. It could be because I wasn't raised with much in the way of familial loyalty in the first place, so the idea of venerating horrible people because "family" just isn't something I could do. This is especially true if the "family" in question is abusive. I have no obligation to be loyal to someone who's not loyal to me, for any reason. Thankfully, no one in my family is abusive, but a dear friend of mine comes from an emotionally abusive family that he still has to live with.

Instead, I believe that family is something we can choose based on how we interact, rather than amount of shared DNA. It's to THAT family that I'm fiercely loyal; my aforementioned friend is my brother, even though we're not related by blood in any way, and I'm as loyal to him as any good Heathen ought to be.

That's all on my end, however, which I won't enforce on other Heathens who prefer to follow bloodlines. That's virtuous in its own way.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

My deceased ancestors generally made life a nightmare for my living ones, unfortunately. I wish I knew more about my heritage, but my dad was adopted, his relatives refuse to tell us anything and I'm very traumatized about blood tests.

 

[peanutbutter63]

My deceased ancestors generally made life a nightmare for my living ones, unfortunately. I wish I knew more about my heritage, but my dad was adopted, his relatives refuse to tell us anything and I'm very traumatized about blood tests.

I guess it's people's choice about paying respects to evil ancestors. If I'm to be thankful to such creatures for me being in this world today...well, let's supposing all my immediate predecessors came by also, but by way of...
-rape
-forced, unwanted, evil, or illegal marriages

You see people, evil...is evil, whichever way you put a twist on it. What crimes your ancestors had done...would you commit such crimes today and then turn around to your future seed and say,"Respect me"...would you do it? I wouldn't, because SHAME IS SHAME, just as evil is evil. I've known many of northern European blood of both Christian and Moslem backgrounds(Asian, Asatru years ago, but I've been a Moslem convert for over the last 2 years) who looked at me strangely as if I had lost my senses when I say.."Hey, about those rampaging warrior ancestors of long ago?!"...a sort of question not well received in some quarters..