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Ancient Reality

cladking

Well-Known Member
And in your case, you have been rationalising your personal belief in your nonexistent Ancient Science (AS) and nonexistent Ancient Language (AL), which supposedly existed before the nonexistent Tower of Babel (ToB).
The "tower of babel" was an event and not a place. Ancient science was derived from the logic of the human brain. Ancient Language was a universal language spoken everywhere in many dialects. We don't capitalize science or events.

Where is this imaginary Ancient Language, it’s writings?
We believe ancient people were stinky footed bumpkins but after the tower of babel the people remembered homo sapiens were powerful and wise and sought to study them. None of the writing other than lists survived this study. lists were recopied but the writing was not translatable. It did not survive other than in confused interpretations in the ancient holy books, hermetic writings, etc. It's these confused interpretations that lead us to the quaint notion that early modern language speakers were sun addled bumpkins. They were not. They merely didn't understand old writing.

Where are your evidences for this Ancient Science that predated 2000 BCE? Are their ancient writings (literary evidences) that documented this Ancient Science?
???

The Pyramid Texts are silly little rituals written in Ancient Language. They make perfect sense logically. They can be understood literally. When they wanted a boat that flew up and alit what they really meant was they literally wanted a literal boat that literally flew up and literally alit. It is actually quite easily understood once you can break the habit of parsing the words.

This is the biggest stumbling block for babies to forgetting Ancient Language and acquiring modern language; that words have to be parsed to have meaning. Ancient Language can't be parsed. Words in modern language take their meaning by how they are structured in a sentence but ancient words were representative and their meanings were chiseled in stone. In fact once a baby acquires a significant vocabulary (about 8 to 12 months) you can get them over this hurdle by using several different meanings of the same word in a sentence. Usage of homonyms can help as well. Once they learn how to parse they'll quickly begin speaking and asking questions.

Of course most babies have speech difficulties so patience is required. The important thing is to avoid reinforcing Ancient Language or they may become autistic. At age two they begin creating new mental pathways so language development must become rapid by this time. Each child is different and some might refuse to speak though.

No one likes not being understood!
I just don’t think the benefit of you preaching your imaginary AS or AL in this new thread, here, other than to justify your belief and delusion, and to satisfy your ego.
If I knew what this sentence meant I'm sure I'd disagree with it too.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
The problem with you, cladking, is that you are hung up on metaphysics, which is nothing more than rationalising claim of existence.
Metaphysics is a failed 19th century philosophy, which failed to be relevant today, in the real world.
Metaphysics has nothing to do with evidences. In fact, metaphysics avoid empirical evidences altogether. Metaphysicians only seek reasoning alone, as the only validation required for any premise of existence. Meaning, for example, even tooth fairy or the Easter bunny can exist, if they can apply circular reasoning for their existence.

I'd suggest a dictionary. "Metaphysics" is the definitions, axioms, processes, and results that drive all science. "Science" is the art of determining reality and predicting the future. Science is understanding. You know I've posted all this before and it just shows you aren't even trying to understand my argument. I say the same thing again and again and it goes unchallenged and unheard. I answer every single argument and this goes unseen as well.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
I have not mention any engineering of the pyramids, nor did I mentioned any “ramp”.

What do any of these had to with pyramid existing. It is there, in Saqqara, Dahshur, Giza and other necropolis, from the 3rd dynasty to the 6th dynasty.

They have EVERYTHING to do with modern understanding.

"Egyptology' is the science of changeless and superstitious people who dragged tombs up ramps. As it applies to the state of the art knowledge of the great pyramids this is exactly what Egyptology is. EVERY SINGLE EGYPTOLOGIST believes this despite the evidence. These are assumptions and not proven facts.

THIS MEANS EGYPTOLOGY IS IRRELEVANT TO ALL OF MY ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ALL OF THESE ASSUMPTION DO NOT APPLY. I don't need to show that the assumptions are false though I can present extensive evidence they are false. They were not changeless. They were not superstitious. They did not drag stones. The pyramids were not tombs.

All of the evidence supports the simple FACT that stones were pulled straight up the sides of five step pyramids one step at a time. I have shown through a preponderance of evidence that ramps were not used. I debunked ramps in 2011 and even Egyptologists have started backing off of them (a little).

It's beside the point that I can show they are wrong about everything because I can show what's probably correct. It's knowing what's right and understanding the PT that allowed me to solve how they were built. How could I solve these things and show Egyptologists are wrong? How could I predict the thermal anomaly that i hounded them years to seek?

The answer to these questions is that the PT really does make sense. It is logical. Egyptologists believed they had translated it but never noticed that none it made sense suggesting it wasn't really translated at all.
They didn't notice it wasn't translated because it was written in a different type of language that can't be translated into any modern language at all. It is written in a language that rhymes with math and the logic of nature itself. It is written in a language which a sparrow might understand but not an Egyptologist.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
They have EVERYTHING to do with modern understanding.

"Egyptology' is the science of changeless and superstitious people who dragged tombs up ramps. As it applies to the state of the art knowledge of the great pyramids this is exactly what Egyptology is. EVERY SINGLE EGYPTOLOGIST believes this despite the evidence. These are assumptions and not proven facts.

THIS MEANS EGYPTOLOGY IS IRRELEVANT TO ALL OF MY ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ALL OF THESE ASSUMPTION DO NOT APPLY. I don't need to show that the assumptions are false though I can present extensive evidence they are false. They were not changeless. They were not superstitious. They did not drag stones. The pyramids were not tombs.

All of the evidence supports the simple FACT that stones were pulled straight up the sides of five step pyramids one step at a time. I have shown through a preponderance of evidence that ramps were not used. I debunked ramps in 2011 and even Egyptologists have started backing off of them (a little).

It's beside the point that I can show they are wrong about everything because I can show what's probably correct. It's knowing what's right and understanding the PT that allowed me to solve how they were built. How could I solve these things and show Egyptologists are wrong? How could I predict the thermal anomaly that i hounded them years to seek?

The answer to these questions is that the PT really does make sense. It is logical. Egyptologists believed they had translated it but never noticed that none it made sense suggesting it wasn't really translated at all.
They didn't notice it wasn't translated because it was written in a different type of language that can't be translated into any modern language at all. It is written in a language that rhymes with math and the logic of nature itself. It is written in a language which a sparrow might understand but not an Egyptologist.
So.. where is all this advanced technology. Wonder why such advanced humans only left behind stone and bronze. No steel. Just bows, arrows and stone clubs? Strange so many died early and of diseases we can easily cure. Why did they farm with backbreaking human labor. And barter system!? No idea of money.

Hmm. Looks not very advanced to me....
Ancient Egypt: Naqada Culture
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
So.. where is all this advanced technology. Wonder why such advanced humans only left behind stone and bronze. No steel. Just bows, arrows and stone clubs? Strange so many died early and of diseases we can easily cure. Why did they farm with backbreaking human labor. And barter system!? No idea of money.

Hmm. Looks not very advanced to me....
Ancient Egypt: Naqada Culture


The nature of a tool defines the job it can do.

Modern science creates technology, not through understanding but through the ability to take things from the lab and adapt them to other uses. When you discover that electricity creates magnetism you can invent an instrument to measure current and use the instrument to study electricity. This naturally spawns more experiment, more instruments, and more technology.

Natural science doesn't work this way. Animals and ancient man didn't perform experiment because it is outside the metaphysics of natural science. They would say that you can't stage or cheat 'amun". Ancient metaphysics was pretty simple but it looks nothing like our metaphysics. They took reality as being axiomatic as was time and cause and effect. They probably used a cardinal mathematics but no one yet understands it. Observation and theory makes prediction and these were confirmed by observation and logic.

"Observation" is fundamental to modern science but ALL theory can ONLY be established through experiment. This is because we have no test to confirm the interpretation of observation. Some people here are misunderstanding the nature of observation in modern science. You can't look at a bone and pronounce it an early form of another bone therefore species must evolve. All you can logically say is that the two individuals represent a species that changed. Just as it's illogical to say that the ruins of a building must have been a temple where people prayed to imaginary consciousnesses therefore they were superstitious. Observation is about proper interpretation of experiment and hypothesis formation. It is most assuredly not "science" even though observation is fundamental to modern science, ancient science, and the ability of every individual that has ever lived to survive. Observation is very similar to survival itself except in modern science.

Modern science creates technology. Ancient science created understanding. From this understanding sprang technology. This is why ancient technology appears "simple" by our standards. Of course no one knows how the great pyramid builders drilled and shaped granite and they don't even know how they lifted the stones to build pyramids since ramps were debunked 7 years ago. Indeed, we don't know much of anything about their technology except that we are still dependent on their invention of agriculture which was derived from their theory of species change.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Not "quite sophisticated" merely quite a bit of nonsensical hand waving. I am sorry but your claim is pure nonsense. Whether or not the rays of the Sun or the Moon have any difference in how parallel they are is directly related to the angle they subtend (the size that they appear to be here). Since the angle is almost identical they will also have rays that are just as paralleel.
I don't know what any of this means so I'll try to explain in other terms.

The sun is very very far away. At any given point on the surface of the earth there is just a tiny difference in the angle to the sun. In other words any light originating on the sun will be nearly parallel to light at a few feet distance. The rays of light from the sun are nearly parallel.

The moon however is less than .25% as far away as the sun. This means the light from the moon is not parallel. This should show up as a "distortion" in the rainbow.

I believe you're thinking that the angle from one side of the moon to the other is about the same as the sun so the angle the light comes from these bodies is irrelevant. I believe you are misthinking this. I believe the light we experience from the sun is parallel but not that from the moon. ie- there is a significantly greater angle to the light creating a rainbow from the moon. Think about the points of light on the ground filtering through leaves during an eclipse and how they would look different if you could see them from the moon.
Think about how rainbows are made;

220px-Rainbow1.svg.png


Two adjacent raindrops are getting two parallel rays of light.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't know what any of this means so I'll try to explain in other terms.

The sun is very very far away. At any given point on the surface of the earth there is just a tiny difference in the angle to the sun. In other words any light originating on the sun will be nearly parallel to light at a few feet distance. The rays of light from the sun are nearly parallel.

The moon however is less than .25% as far away as the sun. This means the light from the moon is not parallel. This should show up as a "distortion" in the rainbow.

I believe you're thinking that the angle from one side of the moon to the other is about the same as the sun so the angle the light comes from these bodies is irrelevant. I believe you are misthinking this. I believe the light we experience from the sun is parallel but not that from the moon. ie- there is a significantly greater angle to the light creating a rainbow from the moon. Think about the points of light on the ground filtering through leaves during an eclipse and how they would look different if you could see them from the moon.
Think about how rainbows are made;

220px-Rainbow1.svg.png


Two adjacent raindrops are getting two parallel rays of light.


Again, it does not matter. Both are spheres. They are different sizes but the angle that they subtend is almost identical:

Subtended angle - Wikipedia

There would be no difference in the degree of how parallel the light rays from the sources would be. Your explanation was nonsense.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
They have EVERYTHING to do with modern understanding.

"Egyptology' is the science of changeless and superstitious people who dragged tombs up ramps. As it applies to the state of the art knowledge of the great pyramids this is exactly what Egyptology is. EVERY SINGLE EGYPTOLOGIST believes this despite the evidence. These are assumptions and not proven facts.
How many times must tell you I don’t give a crap HOW the pyramids were built.

My posts have only been regarding to YOUR CLAIMS that there are no religions or any belief “BEFORE 2000 BCE”.

I don’t care HOW they quarry the stones, or HOW they shaped the stones, or HOW they move stones, or HOW they build bloody ramps or HOW they lift the stones into place, or WHO were the builders (eg slaves or professional builders). I don’t give a Holy Walnut of any engineering or building.

I didn’t bring up any claim as to the engineering and building processes of the pyramids. So these are nothing more than bloody STRAW MAN.

They are irrelevant to the question of
  1. WHEN they were built,
  2. WHO these pyramids built for,
  3. and WHICH of these pyramids have the hieroglyphs (Pyramid Texts) written on the walls of the kings’ (or queens’) tombs (eg pyramids of Unas, Teti, Pepi I, Pepi II, hence Dynasty V and Dynasty VI).

So my replies have always been about your claims that there were no religions or belief BEFORE 2000 BCE.

So I don’t give a damn if they built “ramps” or not.

Do you not bloody understand that?

How many times must I tell you that I have never brought up bloody RAMP, before you get it your deluded head?!
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Again, it does not matter. Both are spheres. They are different sizes but the angle that they subtend is almost identical:

Subtended angle - Wikipedia

There would be no difference in the degree of how parallel the light rays from the sources would be. Your explanation was nonsense.

So you know this, how?

You are merely averring there would be no difference.

What sort of evidence do you have?

My understanding of the physics of this appears to differ from yours. Perhaps I'll try another explanation after a while. Of course I could be misthinking this but then only one of us has been working on this for five years.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The nature of a tool defines the job it can do.

Modern science creates technology, not through understanding but through the ability to take things from the lab and adapt them to other uses. When you discover that electricity creates magnetism you can invent an instrument to measure current and use the instrument to study electricity. This naturally spawns more experiment, more instruments, and more technology.

Natural science doesn't work this way. Animals and ancient man didn't perform experiment because it is outside the metaphysics of natural science. They would say that you can't stage or cheat 'amun". Ancient metaphysics was pretty simple but it looks nothing like our metaphysics. They took reality as being axiomatic as was time and cause and effect. They probably used a cardinal mathematics but no one yet understands it. Observation and theory makes prediction and these were confirmed by observation and logic.

"Observation" is fundamental to modern science but ALL theory can ONLY be established through experiment. This is because we have no test to confirm the interpretation of observation. Some people here are misunderstanding the nature of observation in modern science. You can't look at a bone and pronounce it an early form of another bone therefore species must evolve. All you can logically say is that the two individuals represent a species that changed. Just as it's illogical to say that the ruins of a building must have been a temple where people prayed to imaginary consciousnesses therefore they were superstitious. Observation is about proper interpretation of experiment and hypothesis formation. It is most assuredly not "science" even though observation is fundamental to modern science, ancient science, and the ability of every individual that has ever lived to survive. Observation is very similar to survival itself except in modern science.

Modern science creates technology. Ancient science created understanding. From this understanding sprang technology. This is why ancient technology appears "simple" by our standards. Of course no one knows how the great pyramid builders drilled and shaped granite and they don't even know how they lifted the stones to build pyramids since ramps were debunked 7 years ago. Indeed, we don't know much of anything about their technology except that we are still dependent on their invention of agriculture which was derived from their theory of species change.
Superbly ridiculous fantasy you have got going there.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So you know this, how?

You are merely averring there would be no difference.

What sort of evidence do you have?

My understanding of the physics of this appears to differ from yours. Perhaps I'll try another explanation after a while. Of course I could be misthinking this but then only one of us has been working on this for five years.
He is right. Its basic optics. Known very well for about 300 years now. Consult a science textbook.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So you know this, how?

You are merely averring there would be no difference.

What sort of evidence do you have?

My understanding of the physics of this appears to differ from yours. Perhaps I'll try another explanation after a while. Of course I could be misthinking this but then only one of us has been working on this for five years.
It is rather basic geometry. You can't see this?

It is why you can't just look at the Moon or the Sun and guess its distance from the Earth. A bit more work must be done. I wish I knew how to post appropriate images for you.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The nature of a tool defines the job it can do.

Modern science creates technology, not through understanding but through the ability to take things from the lab and adapt them to other uses. When you discover that electricity creates magnetism you can invent an instrument to measure current and use the instrument to study electricity. This naturally spawns more experiment, more instruments, and more technology.

Natural science doesn't work this way. Animals and ancient man didn't perform experiment because it is outside the metaphysics of natural science. They would say that you can't stage or cheat 'amun". Ancient metaphysics was pretty simple but it looks nothing like our metaphysics. They took reality as being axiomatic as was time and cause and effect. They probably used a cardinal mathematics but no one yet understands it. Observation and theory makes prediction and these were confirmed by observation and logic.

"Observation" is fundamental to modern science but ALL theory can ONLY be established through experiment. This is because we have no test to confirm the interpretation of observation. Some people here are misunderstanding the nature of observation in modern science. You can't look at a bone and pronounce it an early form of another bone therefore species must evolve. All you can logically say is that the two individuals represent a species that changed. Just as it's illogical to say that the ruins of a building must have been a temple where people prayed to imaginary consciousnesses therefore they were superstitious. Observation is about proper interpretation of experiment and hypothesis formation. It is most assuredly not "science" even though observation is fundamental to modern science, ancient science, and the ability of every individual that has ever lived to survive. Observation is very similar to survival itself except in modern science.

Modern science creates technology. Ancient science created understanding. From this understanding sprang technology. This is why ancient technology appears "simple" by our standards. Of course no one knows how the great pyramid builders drilled and shaped granite and they don't even know how they lifted the stones to build pyramids since ramps were debunked 7 years ago. Indeed, we don't know much of anything about their technology except that we are still dependent on their invention of agriculture which was derived from their theory of species change.
Meanwhile actual reality of tombs with grave goods and skeletons uncovered in Hierakonpolis from predynastic Naquada 2 period showing the continuous development of the Egyptian civilization upto the Old Kingdom peak.

Special Report: New Finds from the Elite Cemetery - Archaeology Magazine Archive

Completion of the work at Tomb 23 took place this past February-March. The area Adams had investigated was reopened and the adjacent areas excavated, showing that the tomb--the largest of this date known so far--measured 5.5 meters (east-west) by 3 meters (north-south). On the stone floor of the tomb, at its western end, were the partial remains (lower skeletal parts only) of four individuals. The remains are not well preserved and had no grave goods with them or mats (with which other bodies in the cemetery are wrapped, laid upon, or covered). While evidence indicates that the tomb was plundered more than once in the past, Adams had found fine grave offerings at the tomb's eastern end.

Eight square posts (20 by 20 cm), indicated by four postholes on each of the tomb's long sides, supported the superstructure over it. East of the tomb, six additional posts (set in two north-south rows of three each) may be from a one- or two-room offering chapel, the walls of which were made from matting. To the west of the tomb was another grave, Tomb 25, which held remains of three adults with textile wrapping and padding and layers of matting covering them. Postholes at each corner suggest that Tomb 25 also had a superstructure. Although Tomb 25 seems to be later than Tomb 23, it is within a wall enclosing the entire complex and is part of the whole.

On the northeast, there is a gap in the wall--likely the entrance to the complex--flanked by large postholes in one of which were ritual vessels fragments and bones of a newly born sheep or goat. Another deposit, between the enclosure's northeastern corner and the entrance, held a ram's head flaked from flint, in the same fashion as the ibex found by Adams in 2000, and mace handle of ebony.

In 2000, Adams found more than 500 fragments of a near life-size statue, and 46 more pieces of it were recovered this season. This degree of fragmentation suggests that the destruction of the statue was deliberate. The enclosure wall and superstructure over Tomb 23 were both burnt, but exactly when this happened and if it is related to the destruction of the statue remain unknown.

Royal elephant buried in honor in these tombs as well.

Interactive Dig Hierakonpolis - The Elite Cemetery: Week 5

It was not until we finally got to the floor of the grave in the test square in the central depression that we could answer some of these questions, at least in part. The floor was reached at 1.15 m below the surface, and it was an amazing sight. On it lay three large bones that essentially filled the entire space, leaving little room for the workmen, and certainly no room for a basket boy or, frustratingly, an Egyptologist. I watched from the side of the trench as they gradually revealed the articulated front leg of the elephant, part of the massive pelvis, and a shoulder bone that had been knocked out of place. I could also make out a dark stain spreading across the floor and the bones. When I could take it no longer, I jumped in to examine it: a fine linen fabric both above and below the bones. Sandwiched between these gossamer layers was a thick layer of blackened elephant skin, in some cases still adhering to the bones.

Clearly at least part of the elephant had been laid in its grave with its skin still on its bone. The recovery of a substance that looked like bone but felt like soap told us that it still had its flesh as well, as this mysterious substance later was identified as elephant blubber! (Technically, it is adipocere, a wax-like substance that fatty tissue chemically changes into under certain conditions.) It was also clear that this elephant had been buried with honors and not, for example, as a food offering. The sheer quantity of fabric required to cover an elephant was hard to fathom. But that was not all. It was also provided with grave gifts of red ocher and green malachite (a copper ore) used as eye make up, a diorite macehead, an alabaster jar, amethyst bead, and, perhaps a tad tastelessly, an ivory bracelet! His pottery grave goods included fine black-topped beakers, a bowl decorated with white paint, and a jar imported from Maadi, a predynastic site near modern Cairo. Clearly no expense had been spared. On a more somber note, it is hard to know whether the number of transverse arrowheads (hafted at the pointed end) found in the grave debris were grave goods for the elephant's afterlife, or the items that dispatched him hence.

Interactive Dig Hierakonpolis - Hierakonpolis 2007 - Field Note 6

When we returned to the cemetery, we knew the tomb was going to be big, but full excavation exceeded our initial expectations when Tomb 23, turned out to be the largest tomb of its time period (c. 3800BC, Naqada IIAB) yet known. Measuring 5.5m long by over 3.1m wide, it is approximately the same size as the Painted tomb, but can be dated by associated pottery some 300 years earlier. That it can comfortably seat the entire excavation crew give perhaps even a better idea of its substantial size.

On the east side of the grave, posts also survive to indicate a separate above-ground structure, which we call an offering chapel, for lack of a better term. In addition to these buildings, hundreds of evenly spaced smaller post marked out an imposing enclosure wall that is 16m long and 9m wide and was originally, at least in part, painted a deep red. Completely unexpected, it presages the funerary precincts of mud brick known in the First Dynasty over half a millennium later.

See more in the link below
Interactive Dig Hierakonpolis - Hierakonpolis 2007 - Field Note 6


All of this clearly shows that the Egyptian religion and beliefs regarding Gods, afterlife and elaborate burial and veneration of elites and kings were established 500 years before the 1st dynasty. Care to explain these?
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
You want to talk about what pyramids were for? You don't believe that they were tombs?
You can read Egyptian hieroglyphs? How can you know there were no word for belief?
Even if the Egyptians didn't have a word for "beliefs", that doesn't mean they didn't have beliefs.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Even if the Egyptians didn't have a word for "beliefs", that doesn't mean they didn't have beliefs.

I am sure that some very remarkable work has been done in deciphering the writings of ancient Egypt.

Considering though the difficulty you see just in this
forum determining what is meant by this or that word
in modern English, I think basing much of anything
on the apparent or imagined absence of a word
corresponding to "belief" is completely unwarranted.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile actual reality of tombs with grave goods and skeletons uncovered in Hierakonpolis from predynastic Naquada 2 period showing the continuous development of the Egyptian civilization upto the Old Kingdom peak.

I said before that the Pyramid Texts were just a silly little book of the rituals read to the madding crowds at the kings' ascension ceremonies. There were other rituals as well though. They didn't have a king to bury every single year but this was a pyramid building culture and they built pyramids every season, every year. These other years had rituals as well. There were rituals for unpacking and repacking the oil lamp kept in anubis' chest. There were rituals for placing stone on the dndndr-boat. There was even a ritual for waiting for maat to regain control of the equipment.

They didn't have beliefs and superstition but they had a ritual for just about everything. Why not have rituals? Rituals don't make people blind to reality they just bind them together.

It has been common through history (and pre-history) to bury people with their favorite possessions. This doesn't make people superstitious either.

All of the evidence these people were superstitious is based on interpretation. We can understand later people after 2000 BC and they are superstitious. They said they believed in things that don't exist. This is why writing was invented in 3200 BC but recorded history didn't start for 1000 years. The early writing is in a different type of writing that can't be parsed and can't be read by modern people. Virtually all of it was lost in the attempt to decipher and interpret it.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I said before that the Pyramid Texts were just a silly little book of the rituals read to the madding crowds at the kings' ascension ceremonies. There were other rituals as well though. They didn't have a king to bury every single year but this was a pyramid building culture and they built pyramids every season, every year. These other years had rituals as well. There were rituals for unpacking and repacking the oil lamp kept in anubis' chest. There were rituals for placing stone on the dndndr-boat. There was even a ritual for waiting for maat to regain control of the equipment.

They didn't have beliefs and superstition but they had a ritual for just about everything. Why not have rituals? Rituals don't make people blind to reality they just bind them together.

It has been common through history (and pre-history) to bury people with their favorite possessions. This doesn't make people superstitious either.

All of the evidence these people were superstitious is based on interpretation. We can understand later people after 2000 BC and they are superstitious. They said they believed in things that don't exist. This is why writing was invented in 3200 BC but recorded history didn't start for 1000 years. The early writing is in a different type of writing that can't be parsed and can't be read by modern people. Virtually all of it was lost in the attempt to decipher and interpret it.
The pyramid text is a silly book of rituals? I thought you said it was a treatise of advanced science.
Please start making sense.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
"Egyptology' is the science of changeless and superstitious people who dragged tombs up ramps. As it applies to the state of the art knowledge of the great pyramids this is exactly what Egyptology is. EVERY SINGLE EGYPTOLOGIST believes this despite the evidence. These are assumptions and not proven facts.

THIS MEANS EGYPTOLOGY IS IRRELEVANT TO ALL OF MY ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ALL OF THESE ASSUMPTION DO NOT APPLY.
I don't need to show that the assumptions are false though I can present extensive evidence they are false. They were not changeless. They were not superstitious. They did not drag stones. The pyramids were not tombs.

The part I have highlighted in red, demonstrates your complete ignorance of Egyptian cultures.

Who said Egyptology has to be changeless?

Ancient Egypt is a nation of changing culture.

Some what we call “Egyptian” characteristics may remain the same, but some of it change.

Since you are fixation on Egyptian pyramids, I will focus on the design of the tombs.

For instance, before the first dynasty and before unification of Egypt into a single nation, before 3100 BCE, the most common tomb-type they built for their northern and southern kings (of Lower Egypt and Upper Egypt) were the mastaba-type of tomb.


From bird eye view, the base are either rectangular or square in shape, and from side elevation, it looked a bench, hence the Arabic name mastaba, meaning “bench top”.

Entry to the tomb are like the inside of pyramid, an inclined corridor that lead to a subterranean tomb chamber(s).

The very first pyramid, built for Djoser of the 3rd dynasty, the Step Pyramid, is design of the number of mastabas, stack one on top of the other.

Going from mastaba tomb to Step Pyramid, is demonstrating innovating and evolving from one design to another.

By the time of Khufu’s father, Sneferu, the first king of the 4th dynasty, the first true pyramid was built at Dahshur - the Red Pyramid.

Khufu and his successive successors built the pyramids at Giza, which were the pinnacle of all pyramids.

But the 5th and 6th dynasties, were less stable than rulers of the previous dynasties, the pharaohs’ authority was weakened by bureaucrats and the priesthood, and the design of these pyramids were less impressive. But what the last two dynasties lack in wealth and building projects, they made up for it with the Pyramid Texts.

Succeeding dynasties, after the 6th dynasty, there were less pyramids built, until they stop altogether, by the New Kingdom period (18th, 19th & 20th dynasties), which saw most tombs built into the rock faces at the Valley of the Kings, near Thebes.

So from the Old Kingdom to the Middle Kingdom to the New Kingdom, their building programs have changed.

To say, Egyptian archaeology being changeless, is perhaps the most ignorant thing you can say about yourself.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
I can agree that lack of any word meaning "belief" is not my best argument that ancient people weren't superstitious but I do believe that it is highly indicative. "Belief" is simply fundamental to our species today so its omission 5000 years ago is a major issue that Egyptology has never addressed.

But the lack of the word still supports my interpretation of the evidence and my understanding of the language. Not having beliefs helps in understanding a language that doesn't even have the word. It also doesn't have words like "pretend" or "suppose". "Opinion", "faith", and "creed" are all lacking. We would be virtually tongue tied without such words and Egyptologist can use one or another in sentence after sentence sometimes in describing these people they believe are highly superstitious. The irony is sublime.

Anyone trying to follow the argument can come back to this issue later and will likely agree that these omissions virtually arise to the level of proof. They spoke in tautologies and known theory because no one cared about "beliefs" and they lacked the word AND THE REFERENT. "Belief" simply wasn't possible if you think in digital language. What does a bird need with belief?
Now, is the point that you feel these "ancients" literally didn't have beliefs, and only concerned themselves with things that were "true"?

Or is it that they HAD beliefs, but did not view them as such, and instead regarded them as the truth, even in cases where they were completely wrong?

There's an ocean of difference between those - and I think that difference is what you are trying to explain away as "semantics" - but it is just not that simple.

One may not have a word for "belief", merely think they are 100% correct about everything and hence have no use for the word. But that doesn't, at all, mean they are 100% correct in an objective sense. It does, however, mean that they are falsely confident, lacking in humility, and extremely likely to miss out on or dismiss many pieces of actual/actionable knowledge. Please tell me this is not something you wish to strive for, personally...
 
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