Angavastram and being shirtless

[Jainarayan]

I see a few men at temple wearing an angavastram either around their waists like a sash, over or under a shirt, some over the shoulder(s). Occasionally there is one or three who wear no shirt, just the angavastram as a sash, or over the left shoulder, the right arm is bare. The temple manager was kind enough to give me an angavastram because none of the dhotis I bought came with an angavastram

I have a couple of tattoos on my arms. Nothing offensive, ornate or gaudy, just a tribal-style band on my right arm (which I've since come to regret and would have removed if I could afford it); ancient Greek lettering on my left arm (ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ, "molon lavé, come take them"); a Sanskrit OM on my right shoulder; an American eagle on my left shoulder.

This leads me to two questions:

1. Should I not go shirtless because of the tats?
2. Because my marriage is "unconventional", am I prohibited from being shirtless?

I would ask at temple, but given a language barrier I'm not sure I'd express myself properly. Only one or two people know I am married to another man, but at some point it's bound to come up.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

My guess is, it depends on how the sensibilities of that particular community. I have moved around a lot and each temple community I have participated in has been a little different in some of the small ways they enforce decorum. One temple won't allow pictures, another is fine with it. One temple won't allow women to touch certain parts of the shrine area, another doesn't care etc.

At the temple I currently attend, I recently saw an older woman with a short sleeved Kurti on and everyone could clearly see the "Om" tattoo on her upper arm. She seemed comfortable and no one troubled her about it from what I observed.

I don't know how your marriage situation affects your ability to go shirtless. I know you said their is a language barrier issue, but can you send an email to the temple management to ask? As a second language learner myself, I know that often times a person can read better than speak a language they are learning so you might be able to get the point across that way.

 

[ajay0]

This leads me to two questions:

1. Should I not go shirtless because of the tats?
2. Because my marriage is "unconventional", am I prohibited from being shirtless?

I would ask at temple, but given a language barrier I'm not sure I'd express myself properly. Only one or two people know I am married to another man, but at some point it's bound to come up.

1. There are many hindus, especialy youngster, these days who sport tattoos in their bodies. So I won't say it is much of a concern.

2. Sexuality is not an issue in Hindu temples from what I know.

The purification of the consciousness is what counts.

 

[Jainarayan]

1. There are many hindus, especialy youngster, these days who sport tattoos in their bodies. So I won't say it is much of a concern.

2. Sexuality is not an issue in Hindu temples from what I know.

The purification of the consciousness is what counts.

Thanks.

 

[Jainarayan]

My guess is, it depends on how the sensibilities of that particular community. I have moved around a lot and each temple community I have participated in has been a little different in some of the small ways they enforce decorum. One temple won't allow pictures, another is fine with it. One temple won't allow women to touch certain parts of the shrine area, another doesn't care etc.

We aren't supposed to take pics or vids. There is an official videographer/photographer who is a devotee. I've seen a priest frown and shake his head "no" at someone taking a picture. Other than that, pretty much anything goes, including phones ringing. I've gotten looks when I'm looking at my phone, but I'm reading prayers. I can't text (nor would I)... no connection for me.

I don't know how your marriage situation affects your ability to go shirtless. I know you said their is a language barrier issue, but can you send an email to the temple management to ask? As a second language learner myself, I know that often times a person can read better than speak a language they are learning so you might be able to get the point across that way.

I thought I picked up somewhere that only married men can go shirtless, but I didn't see if there was anything one way or another about same sex marriage. That is, given that a same sex marriage has about as much chance of being performed in a Hindu temple as me having a roll in the hay with Tim Tebow (my new favorite hottie, Christian notwithstanding ) I don't know if anyone would even react if I ever brought my husband to temple, but I certainly wouldn't tell people he's my friend or brother. I could ask one of the ladies I'm friendly with. She does seva at the temple, and might know.

One of the men I see regularly has taken to dressing in dhoti and angavastram lately, shirtless (he's the one with the little girl that reminds me of Cindy Lou Who). I noticed last night he's begun wearing a yajnopavita. I thought about doing the shirtless angavastram/dhoti outfit for tradition, but otoh, I don't want to look like I'm showing out... y'know, the fat white guy trying to out-Hindu others. I get funny looks as it is.

 

[Viraja]

Jai,

Please feel free to do what your conscience truly dictates to you... As you are a good man, I bet your conscience would dictate to you the best!

 

[Jainarayan]

Jai,

Please feel free to do what your conscience truly dictates to you... As you are a good man, I bet your conscience would dictate to you the best!

True, "they" (whoever "they" are) say to always follow your instinct, intuition, "gut feeling".

 

[Vinayaka]

Lots of tattoos. Flaunting of sexuality of any variety would be frowned upon within any temple. We're there to worship God, and gender has little to do with it.

The only times I go shirtless is to carry or for penance. Not normal here at all, except on those occasions. Priests, yes. South India or Sri Lanka, however, is another matter. Some temples have it as a requirement.

Karnataka just recently passed a state wide dress code. Pants and a shirt or dhoti for men, salwar kameez or sari for women.

 

[Jainarayan]

Lots of tattoos. Flaunting of sexuality of any variety would be frowned upon within any temple. We're there to worship God, and gender has little to do with it.

I don't disagree with you, that's why I'm iffy about it. Again, I'd do it to "go along with the crowd" if I saw it was predominant. But it's not that important an issue to risk having a finger shaken at me (I'm fragile ).

I don't like to be judgemental but I see things I don't approve of (if I were judgemental, that is )...

• Men in shorts, despite a clear sign "No shorts".
• Men and women in torn jeans despite a clear sign "No torn jeans".
• Skin tight, almost spandex-like outfits despite a clear sign "This is a house of worship, proper attire is required".
• Ball caps, sleeveless tops.

(I love using bulleted points).

You get the idea. I'm not so sure I give a pass even to older kids doing any of those. But this is the "culture" of central NJ. It's even worse closer to the shore.

Two funny stories, though at the time they happened they were more embarrassing than funny:

1. Going along with crowd, I wore shorts to temple on very warm Sunday. Nice walking shorts, not even very short (at 5' 6", one tends to look like a Hobbit in shorts), and a nice polo shirt. I figured, well it's one of those things that gets a pass because there are so many men who wear shorts, and it's summer in central NJ. And again, nice shorts. Nuh uh... the manager came to me later, took me aside, very sheepishly pointed to the sign (as if I might be offended by being told). He said "I tell you because I know you know". Well, of course I was mortified at my own stupidity. Some smiles, "no worries" hand gestures, and head nods, and it was all good. Of course now I see so many men in shorts and I think to myself "hmm! and I get yelled at!" Of course it wasn't even a chastisement, this is my sense of humor. His point was, and it's hard to explain, almost that he expected me to set an example (big failure at that with all the other guys wearing shorts ).
2. At a restaurant one very warm and muggy Sunday afternoon, we walked in, guided by the host to a table, and given menus. I was in a sleeveless t shirt. We were literally a stone's throw from the beach. You leave the beach, cross the road, and there's the restaurant... with the river on the other side (it's on a barrier island). The waiter no sooner comes to the table when a manager comes rushing over to stop him from taking our orders. He says we can't be seated because I'm not dressed properly. I said "what do you mean, the guy at that table is wearing the same type of shirt and he's eating!" The manager just muttered a lame apology. He said we were welcome to sit outside on the deck. My ego kicked in and I said no thank you and left. I called the restaurant the next day, whereupon I got a profuse apology for the inconsistent rule.

OK, so lesson learned... when in doubt, overdress and don't follow the crowd. So, given that, I don't think I'll push my luck at being shirtless.

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't disagree with you, that's why I'm iffy about it. Again, I'd do it to "go along with the crowd" if I saw it was predominant. But it's not that important an issue to risk having a finger shaken at me (I'm fragile ).

I don't like to be judgemental but I see things I don't approve of (if I were judgemental, that is )...

• Men in shorts, despite a clear sign "No shorts".
• Men and women in torn jeans despite a clear sign "No torn jeans".
• Skin tight, almost spandex-like outfits despite a clear sign "This is a house of worship, proper attire is required".
• Ball caps, sleeveless tops.

(I love using bulleted points).

You get the idea. I'm not so sure I give a pass even to older kids doing any of those. But this is the "culture" of central NJ. It's even worse closer to the shore.

The only people I can sort of tolerate are those who are passing through, and stopping in for a quick darshan. It it's a hot day, and they are there for 10 minutes, shorts is sort of a, yeah, okay, this time. Hats are asked to be taken off, by managers, older devotees like me, or even the priests.

I always make a point to dress well. as you know. Gosh, somebody has to. When I told that to a Tamil elder, he agreed, and I've never seen him not in a veshti since, There are about 5 of us who always wear veshti, even at -30. I change downstairs if it's really brutal outside.

I think it's getting better actually. We see more dhotis or kurta/pajama all the time.

 

[Jainarayan]

We see more dhotis or kurta/pajama all the time.

I also have to say that's the case, especially among middle aged men. Most of the women, even the younger ones wear a sari.

 

[Vinayaka]

I also have to say that's the case, especially among middle aged men. Most of the women, even the younger ones wear a sari.

Maybe it's the pendulum effect. It went too far one way, so this is a natural reaction.

Indian dress is so beautiful it's uplifting to the Hindu eye. Such a long history of elegance.

 

[Jainarayan]

Indian dress is so beautiful it's uplifting to the Hindu eye.

It's like a kaleidoscope, almost psychedelic. Men's dress is relatively dull compared to women's. Yes, there's the occasional "jewel color" kurtas, e.g. crimson, dark blue, green, etc. with brocade. But the saris! ay-ay-ay!

I haven't worn traditional in a couple of months. It's my ego... since I put on weight it's like "does this dhoti make me look faaaat?" (dhoti for northern style, veshti for southern style). But it's not like the priests don't carry more than a bit of chunk themselves.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, the priest also can be fat, and with advancing age and reduction in testosterone supplies may have heavy breasts. A 'yajnopavita' is a dress itself and nothing more may be required. In our temple in Jodhpur, I wore only 'yajnopavita' for an abhishek. Wearing an angavastram while doing puja can be restricting. Like Viraja and Jai said, whatever, in which you would feel comfortable. How you feel you will find reflected in others.

"His point was, and it's hard to explain, almost that he expected me to set an example (big failure at that with all the other guys wearing shorts). " Ha ha.

Like Jai said "when in doubt, overdress". Shorts in temple, male or female, will rankle me here in India. Same with torn jeans. Skin tights have become so common among younger people, I would accept them here in North India.

 

[Shantanu]

I see a few men at temple wearing an angavastram either around their waists like a sash, over or under a shirt, some over the shoulder(s). Occasionally there is one or three who wear no shirt, just the angavastram as a sash, or over the left shoulder, the right arm is bare. The temple manager was kind enough to give me an angavastram because none of the dhotis I bought came with an angavastram

I have a couple of tattoos on my arms. Nothing offensive, ornate or gaudy, just a tribal-style band on my right arm (which I've since come to regret and would have removed if I could afford it); ancient Greek lettering on my left arm (ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ, "molon lavé, come take them"); a Sanskrit OM on my right shoulder; an American eagle on my left shoulder.

This leads me to two questions:

1. Should I not go shirtless because of the tats?
2. Because my marriage is "unconventional", am I prohibited from being shirtless?

I would ask at temple, but given a language barrier I'm not sure I'd express myself properly. Only one or two people know I am married to another man, but at some point it's bound to come up.

To be quite frank Jai, it is not proper to go shirtless and show ones bare body in public, and least of all in a temple whether of not you have a tatoo of any description.

 

[Jainarayan]

To be quite frank Jai, it is not proper to go shirtless and show ones bare body in public, and least of all in a temple whether of not you have a tatoo of any description.

I'm talking about wearing the angavastram over the upper body, over left shoulder, across chest, right arm bare. You've seen that, no? Not bare-chested shirtless.

 

[Shantanu]

I'm talking about wearing the angavastram over the upper body, over left shoulder, across chest, right arm bare. You've seen that, no? Not bare-chested shirtless.

Have you got a photo of what this angavastram looks like on a person?

 

[Vinayaka]

Quire proper to go shirtless in some temples, espec

ially in the Southern states.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm talking about wearing the angavastram over the upper body, over left shoulder, across chest, right arm bare. You've seen that, no? Not bare-chested shirtless.

 

[Jainarayan]

Have you got a photo of what this angavastram looks like on a person?

Yes, a couple of them.

The priests are in orange, but the man in white isn't a priest. He's a regular member.