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Angels and Emanations

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
When Jacob fled home in Beersheva, heading towards Padam Aram in Syria, to Laban, his ancle, he was running from his brother Esau, who, in his wrath, intended to kill him for having cheated him out of his birthright; I mean, in Esau's opinion.

As Jacob got to Bethel, it was late in the evening, and he was tired. So, he managed himself a place to sleep under the stars. It took him some time to fall asleep, because of his thoughts and anxieties about the future, since he knew nothing about the place and the outcome of his expectations.

And Jacob had a dream. A gigantic ladder would connect earth with the skies, from right the spot where he had laid his head all the way up to Heaven. Then, angels would go up and then down the ladder. Bear in mind that the angels would first climb up and then down.

According to popular beliefs, angels minister to God in Heaven. Why then they would first go up and then down? Those angels were the thoughts, preoccupations, and anxieties of Jacob. They would climb up and down with some sort of feedback in terms of assurances not to lose hope that everything would be all right.

That's what angels are: The facsimile of messengers, which are what feelings are. Emanations, so to speak, which in dreams are unconscious, but conscious in the awaken or semi-awaken state.

Angels or emanations are the medium used by God to communicate with His Prophets. (Numb. 12:6) They sometimes speak from God and many times as if God were doing the talk Himself, especially in visions and lucid dreams, when it is possible even to see God in some kind of form and still live.

Emanations therefore, are any sort of external medium that influence the mind into behaving differently or even only to cause an impression on us. Emanations are angels; and angels are messengers. It's well-known that in real life, a messenger is an angel, and he or she ceases to be one as the message is delivered. This means that the angel is not the messenger per se but the message or emanation.

As a classical example, we have one in the Burning Bush. The emanation was not in the bush neither in the voice coming from the bush. But in the mind of Moses, who could not conciliate so many emanations loading his mind. Then, the strongest one prevailed, as his auditory sense was employed. He followed his heart as one who obeys a direct order from God, which ended up with the Exodus of Israel from Egypt.

Ben
 
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IF_u_knew

Curious
I think this makes perfect sense. I actually read a passage today that to me, made me think of what you said above. It is in Genesis 18. It says that the LORD appeared unto Abraham and then immediately after it states that he looked up and 3 men stood there by him.. just like that... BUT then it states in the same verse that he ran to meet them. It has always seemed such a strange occurrence, no? My dreams play out in this strange way and from what others say, most people's dreams do... thus, it would suggest it being a dream.

Then he, Abraham, calls *them* my LORD and the conversation goes this way.. "they" turns to "he" .. and the men are called the LORD in the passage. I have heard this is the proof of the trinity, but it never read that way to me due to its strangeness.. just does not seem to be a literal account. Your explanation above astounds me having reread it today and remembering this above because, as i said, it *does* read very much as a dream. Yes?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thief here...
More accurately...angels are...bigger...faster...stronger...more intelligent...and greatly experienced.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
I think this makes perfect sense. I actually read a passage today that to me, made me think of what you said above. It is in Genesis 18. It says that the LORD appeared unto Abraham and then immediately after it states that he looked up and 3 men stood there by him.. just like that... BUT then it states in the same verse that he ran to meet them. It has always seemed such a strange occurrence, no? My dreams play out in this strange way and from what others say, most people's dreams do... thus, it would suggest it being a dream.

Then he, Abraham, calls *them* my LORD and the conversation goes this way.. "they" turns to "he" .. and the men are called the LORD in the passage. I have heard this is the proof of the trinity, but it never read that way to me due to its strangeness.. just does not seem to be a literal account. Your explanation above astounds me having reread it today and remembering this above because, as i said, it *does* read very much as a dream. Yes?

Hi IF_u_new. I would not say a dream, but a vision. Or halfway between a dream and a vision, a lucid dream. But I am more comfortable with a vision that Abraham had that hot summer day.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
None of the above. I believe angels are emanations just according to the thread.

Thief here...the five attributes for angels would be undeniable.
If a man could say of himself...more than any angel... in any of these forms then... God did not 'make Man a little less than the angels'.
 
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Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Thief here...the five attributes for angels would be undeniable.
If a man could say of himself...more than any angel... in any of these forms then... God did not 'make Man a little less than the angels'.


Angels here in Psalm 8:6, is a reference to the attributes of God which partook with the formation of man in the image of the attributes of God. "A little less than the angels" means that what entered in the formation of man from the attributes of God, was to a lesser degree than the attributes themselves in God.

In Genesis 1:26, God would have dominion over all creation through His attributes in man, but in a lesser portion of the real thing in God Himself. If you read Psalm 8:7, just after he said that man was created a little less than the angels, I mean, a little less than God's attributes, the purpose was to give man rule over the works of God's "hands," or His creation.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thief here...
It's fine and well that you quote Scripture.

The five attributes I listed are undeniable...none the less.

If any man could face an angel and say to him...
You cannot move me...you not big enough....
You cannot catch me...you are too slow....
You cannot not subdue me...I am stronger....
Let's argue....
I can circumvent you...I know my way around....
THEN my post is false.
But Man is less than the angels....in all five ways.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Thief here...
It's fine and well that you quote Scripture.

The five attributes I listed are undeniable...none the less.

If any man could face an angel and say to him...
You cannot move me...you not big enough....
You cannot catch me...you are too slow....
You cannot not subdue me...I am stronger....
Let's argue....
I can circumvent you...I know my way around....
THEN my post is false.
But Man is less than the angels....in all five ways.

Sorry Thief, but you are being too anthropomorphic about God or emanations.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thief here...Sorry right back at you!
Anthropology has nothing to do with it.
The five attributes are not needfully physical.

Besides if you insist on describing the angelic as "emanations", They might take it personally and respond accordingly.
 

Ben Sinai

Member
A multitude of fanciful things have been spoken of Yacob’s vision of the ladder, and its signification. But without scriptural proof as to any of theses fanciful things then they are just that, fanciful things. Fun to think about but no scriptural backbone and a waste of time. Lets rather spend our precious time that we have left in the service of Yah.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Thief here...Sorry right back at you!
Anthropology has nothing to do with it.
The five attributes are not needfully physical.

Besides if you insist on describing the angelic as "emanations", They might take it personally and respond accordingly.

First of all, I said nothing about Anthropology. I said Anthropomorphy. You should know that there is an enormous difference between Anthropology and Anthropomorphy. I know that Anthropology has nothing to do with it. But Anthropomorphy does.

Second, I never had physical attributes in my mind. I have never heard about physical attributes. Physical features but not physical attributes. Attributes are mental or spiritual aptitudes.

And your threat scares only superstitious people. Jews stand a little higher than superstitions.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
A multitude of fanciful things have been spoken of Yacob’s vision of the ladder, and its signification. But without scriptural proof as to any of theses fanciful things then they are just that, fanciful things. Fun to think about but no scriptural backbone and a waste of time. Lets rather spend our precious time that we have left in the service of Yah.

And what does Ben Sinai have as a contribution, nothing? In that case the time you took to write the above post was a waste of time. If silence does not contribute, criticism rather disturbs.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thief here...Okay Masada..
I looked up the difference in Webster's.
It is a subtle difference

Anthropology....definition 2....
religious teaching about the origin,nature,and destiny of Man from the perspective of his relationship with God.

Anthropomorphic...definition 2derived from or having human form.

My discussion IS about Man and his relationships toward spiritual life.
That would be anthropology.

Post #3 stands as is.

There is no superstition going on here.
 
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Ben Sinai

Member
And what does Ben Sinai have as a contribution, nothing? In that case the time you took to write the above post was a waste of time. If silence does not contribute, criticism rather disturbs.

Why contriute thoughts and feelings with no scriptural bases or foundation? Exsposing such things as this which are a waste of time will help save the time of many over the one thus it isn't a waste of time but yet a savings of many times. Criticism only disturbs the insecure and the self-righteous.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Thief here...Okay Masada..
I looked up the difference in Webster's.
It is a subtle difference

Anthropology....definition 2....
religious teaching about the origin,nature,and destiny of Man from the perspective of his relationship with God.

Anthropomorphic...definition 2derived from or having human form.

My discussion IS about Man and his relationships toward spiritual life.
That would be anthropology.

Post #3 stands as is.

There is no superstition going on here.

If there is no Anthropomorphy or superstition in your post #3, one of us must go back to elementary school and start all over again.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thief here....you can't take away post#3 by harping on one word.
Post #3 still stands.
 
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