Annoying proselytizing (and preaching)

[blü 2]

Thanks for that, but I'm a sister, not a brother. Just so you know.

Thanks for the clarification.

Amen, y'all ...

 

[Sand Dancer]

The threat of hell probably puts fear into the hearts of converts. But does fear of hell translate into love for God? Does fear of God sending them to hell make anyone into a loving, and virtuous person? I don't think so!

Isn't it best to do good works because you genuinely desire to see people benefit from your works? Isn't good works to keep yourself out of hell not good works at all?

The whole set up of Christianity is that every non believer knows God is real, and that they need the Gospel message for eternal salvation. According to Christians atheists delude themselves from something supposedly obvious. According to Christians the Bible and the message of salvation is evident truth. Christians are under the false impression that non believers who have heard the message are rejecting the obvious truth. According to them these non believers harden their hearts and cause themselves to be deluded.

They plant their seeds because proselytizing is a mandate of their faith. They consider their message to be simple and obvious to all.

They believe there is a spirit that eventually convicts every person of their truth.

The tactics they often use is fear, and a supposed merciful love for souls. If they are Bible Christians that is what they are mandated to do.
Also they are forbidden to judge people as doomed to hell. They are to leave that judgment to their God.

They are supposed to be non violent in all circumstances; even unto death.

They are not supposed to be aggressive. They are not supposed to be political. Christian nationalism is contrary to Christianity. Christians are never supposed to enforce conformity to their truth.

They are to boldly go out into the world to preach, and teach. They are not supposed to keep company with non believers. At the same time they have to spread their message to the whole earth of people.

They are extremely annoying, but at the same time I feel like a lot of them are caught up in the Christian trap. Of course there are a lot of Christians who are not Christian at all, but they have their own versions of it, and take it very seriously. Then there are pseudo Christians. Then there are those who are cultural Christians; they love the traditions and resonate with some of the teachings.

For Christians saving faith is to take their God at his word and believe in that God and keep his commandments. As believers they are instructed to not lean on their own understanding. Once they believe they don't look at their faith critically or skeptically.

Growing up with Christianity was no fun, and certainly set me back intellectually and in other ways. I always questioned it, and I always tried to see things for myself instead of through the goggles of the Bible.

I've been proselytized and verbally bullied by Christians quite a bit. Often they couldn't care less what I decided to do with their message.

Christianity to me is most unimpressive. There are a lot of Christians that are really annoying and insincere as well even though they take their Bible very seriously.

There are some sincere Christians out there, and I really feel bad for them.

Christianity certainly left it's influence on me. But eventually I broke free of it.

As for proselytizers, I don't run into them much anymore. But I can tell when they are doing it wrong.

A lot of them start out in a pseudo-loving manner. If you keep refuting them though, it ends up with the threat of hell.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I saw a young lady advertising a church youth group all on her own ... She was ready to be a martyr for her cause.

This makes me mad. No, she wasn't ready to be a martyr. I'd bet everything in my bank that she would have rather been anywhere but there. But the expectation of her church leaders and likely her parents was forcing her to be there with the thin comfort of spiritual reward. I strongly dislike the people who send her (and others like her) out there, but it's hard to be truly angry or awful to people like her.

 

[PureX]

I consider all versions of 'evangelism' cult behavior, and I treat it accordingly. The cultists never understand this, of course. Like most any version of addiction a primary effect is the denial of the addiction by the addict. So there is no way to reason with them as they are not cognizant of the true state of their own reality. So be it. If I were to encounter a drunk or a junkie on the street spewing whatever insane gibberish was going through their heads I'd react the same way.

I have no time or patience for that stuff. Their illnesses are not my responsibility. If they asked me for a dollar I'd be far more obliging than if they want my consent or agreement. And certainly they aren't going to gain my participation.

 

[YoursTrue]

I agree with what you've said, Shadow Wolf. A few Christians have told me that it was God's plan that I suffered abuse and neglect while I was growing up. I counseled with a pastor once, and he told me that it was obvious to him that I'm a cursed soul, that God hates me and is punishing me for the sins of my biological parents. He shared his "revelation" about me after I told him about my childhood and how I had suffered abuse and neglect at home and bullying and harassment while in school. I have more stories to share about my experiences with some Christians during my lifetime, but my point is that I understand what you're talking about.

I'm glad you said that, because to say that allowing or having someone abused is "God's plan" is an awful, awful thing to say. And incorrect. But I can see how things can be twisted. I hope things are better for you now, it's a hard journey to follow. I can't speak for everybody, no matter how we were treated. The Bible says that God is love. Can I understand it all? No. I concentrate as much as possible on Jesus which helps me cope and reading and trying to understand the Bible.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You'd be amazed what doesn't make the papers when it concerns non-Christians in America.

It goes deeper than all you've said, and this is where what @Quintessence said - particularly about bridge building - is so important. In the proselytizing game, in a lot of instances it's actually the proselytizer that's the victim. Their training is designed to be annoying. The questions that they ask and the assumptions on others lives that they're taught to ask and make are specifically meant to illicit negative reactions. Being yelled at and having doors slammed in their face. Having their faith ridiculed and "tested" by the godless hordes.

Their Elders know exactly what kind of reaction they're going to get, and that's what they're counting on. Because when they return to the church and have these horror stories of how the Sinners Out There received the message, they're met with open arms and love. They're home again, they're safe, and the church will protect them from such obviously evil people. It's us versus them, and they're just too lost...

That's also why they go out in pairs. So that they each have "backup" against temptation should there be a more kind and persuasive voice to try and draw them from their entrapment.

I can tell you from personal experience that what you described is exactly what happens in most evangelism teams. As I said, I know how the evangelism game is played because I was a trained evangelist for several years. I completed a popular evangelism training course and was actively involved with the ministry behind the course. After I completed the training, I started street preaching, and I used the training I learned from the course while I preached. I would also approach strangers and evangelize everywhere I went, and I gave away gospel tracts and preached too. In the meantime, I administrated a Facebook group I founded where I instructed other evangelical Christians in the evangelistic techniques I had learned from my training. I was later informed by a friend that the founder of the ministry had acknowledged my group, but it was around this time that the group was undergoing an attempted takeover.

I was having trouble with another administrator who was trying to take over the group. She began by undermining my authority, and then she started to add her friends to the group without consulting me or the other administrators, which had been agreed upon among us. She added her friends as administrators without my permission. When her plot was discovered, she was confronted by me and the other administrators. In retaliation, she started to remove a couple of the administrators' privileges, and she banned them from the group. I was given the heads-up before she got to me, and I was able to remove her privileges and ban her from the group before she was able to complete her takeover. I also removed and banned her friends that she added without permission. The group survived for a couple of more years, but it began to dwindle away, so the other administrators and I decided to permanently close it.

After my group disbanded, I continued to street preach, but my passion for evangelism and for my Christian faith started to wane after a few months because I was no longer able to control my PTSD and other emotional problems at the time. I eventually stopped evangelizing and street preaching because I constantly felt like a hypocrite since I found it very difficult to accept the message I was proclaiming. For the record, the ministry I referred to is The Way of the Master/Living Waters, which was founded by Ray Comfort. I still have the evangelism resources that I purchased from his ministry. I put most of the books on the bookcases in my library, and the rest I packed in boxes that are still in the attic. I decided to keep everything as a reminder of what could happen to me if I became too emotionally attached to a religion. I've been following Wicca for a while, but I won't allow myself to become emotionally attached to it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This makes me mad. No, she wasn't ready to be a martyr. I'd bet everything in my bank that she would have rather been anywhere but there. But the expectation of her church leaders and likely her parents was forcing her to be there with the thin comfort of spiritual reward. I strongly dislike the people who send her (and others like her) out there, but it's hard to be truly angry or awful to people like her.

I am willing to consider that she chose to be there, wanting to contribute to the good, wanting the world to know that peace and unity is available when we do give our children a sound virtue based education, unable to control the hate people had for her choice.

Much like this reply, a light in the darkness, looking for unity of purpose. Looking for people to stop condemnation of others, but finding a reconciliation of the mistakes that have indeed been mistakenly made in the name of faith.

Regards Tony

 

[JDMS]

unable to control the hate people had for her choice.

I was sitting on the square bench not 10ft away for the entire duration of her time handing out flyers and not a single person was rude to her. She was afraid of something that she imagined happening, not something that did happen. There was no hate.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I was sitting on the square bench not 10ft away for the entire duration of her time handing out flyers and not a single person was rude to her. She was afraid of something that she imagined happening, not something that did happen. There was no hate.

I was was referring to those that read about her choice and offer hateful replies.

Regards Tony

 

[JDMS]

I was was referring to those that read about her choice and offer hateful replies.

Regards Tony

I don't think anyone left a hateful reply. The person who directly quoted me, in fact, was angry at the idea she was coerced into an uncomfortable situation. That's sympathy and compassion, not hate. At least in my world it is

 

[YoursTrue]

It's not a point of being taught properly but of how the teacher interprets the bible

Yes -- and also the greater concepts. Such as love. It has to start there. But here's where I stop because I don't want to have a confrontation. In my belief, comprehension and understanding, God sees and understands and can read hearts and minds.

 

[ChristineM]

Yes -- and also the greater concepts. Such as love. It has to start there. But here's where I stop because I don't want to have a confrontation. In my belief, comprehension and understanding, God sees and understands and can read hearts and minds.

Belief is the magic word...
In my belief there is no god so a supernatural is not there to see, understand and red people

 

[exchemist]

I'm speaking from the perspective of a former evangelical Christian who understands how the game of evangelism is played. Being a former Christian appears to have put a target on my back because whenever some Christians learn that I am no longer a Christian, they seem to resort to immediately threatening me with God's wrath and hellfire. I recently encountered a situation in which several Christians accused me of being a witch and tried to learn personal information about me in order to confront me (read here). Nothing occurred because these Christians were unable to find out any information about me that would have allowed them to confront me.

As a former evangelical Christian, I know that Christians feel compelled to spread the gospel and convert nonbelievers to Christianity, but now that I'm on the opposite side, I find evangelizing by Christians to be quite annoying. It also makes me feel ashamed because it reminds me that I was once overbearing with other non-Christians and even with Christians who didn't believe exactly as I did. I have even apologized to some of these people since I left Christianity. I know that there are several other former Christians on RF, so I was wondering if they've also been confronted by Christians about no longer being a Christian and how they handled it. If you are not an ex-Christian but you've been preached at and coerced by Christians to convert to Christianity, then how did you handle the situation?

I've always been mystified by this. In my experience, everyone, and I mean everyone, is turned off by overt attempts to convert them. It is particularly idiotic to threaten you with retribution from something that you don't believe in. I mean, how could that possibly be an effective strategy? It's just unimaginably stupid.

It has always seemed to me that the Christian hoping to convert more people to Christianity needs to do it by quiet example, living a life that others may respect and be attracted to. If someone leaves the faith, the thing to do is be friends, show them some understanding and respect - and that way, maybe in time, a person may reconsider, or maybe not - it's up to them, after all.

But evangelicals can be a funny lot. I have a brother who became one and he was a bit weird for a while, as were his ghastly evangelical friends. To someone like me, with a Catholic background, there was a strange, swivel-eyed intensity and narrowness of thought.... I'm sure you are well out of all that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think anyone left a hateful reply. The person who directly quoted me, in fact, was angry at the idea she was coerced into an uncomfortable situation. That's sympathy and compassion, not hate. At least in my world it is

Well, read in a bit further and they said 'strongly dislike' in their reply, so I shortened it to a single word.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

Belief is the magic word...
In my belief there is no god so a supernatural is not there to see, understand and red people

OK, whatever.
But at any rate, I can say with certainty that the idea of eternal torture in some hell is simply not in the Bible, or consistent with the God I know and strive to honor. As a matter of fact, I was having a conversation with a neighbor about a relative of hers who had died. She believes she can talk to him. I like her, we get along well. I did have to tell her, though, that the idea that anyone can speak to a dead person is simply not justified in the Bible. And that's all I'm going to say right now, although it does bring up some other ideas that help to reason on things.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

OK, whatever.
But at any rate, I can say with certainty that the idea of eternal torture in some hell is simply not in the Bible, or consistent with the God I know and strive to honor. As a matter of fact, I was having a conversation with a neighbor about a relative of hers who had died. She believes she can talk to him. I like her, we get along well. I did have to tell her, though, that the idea that anyone can speak to a dead person is simply not justified in the Bible. And that's all I'm going to say right now, although it does bring up some other ideas that help to reason on things.

Speaking to the dead may be contrary to your Christian beliefs, but it does not appear to be contrary to hers. It isn't contrary to mine, speaking as a spiritualist and a practicing psychic medium with fifteen years of experience speaking with and interacting with the dead, as well as a lifetime experience seeing and hearing the dead. I've advised a few other members here on RF about their personal experiences with spirits or with other issues relating to the paranormal. I also have 15 years of expertise as a seasoned paranormal investigator, investigating both well-known and rumored haunted locations across America. And for the record, I do not care if you believe me or not. I won't debate or argue with skeptics or religious people who object to my psychic medium abilities. If you'd like to know why, you can read my post here, where I explain my reasons. Honestly, I don't need the approval of Christians to be who I am.

 

[YoursTrue]

Speaking to the dead may be contrary to your Christian beliefs, but it does not appear to be contrary to hers. It isn't contrary to mine, speaking as a spiritualist and a practicing psychic medium with fifteen years of experience speaking with and interacting with the dead, as well as a lifetime experience seeing and hearing the dead. I've advised a few other members here on RF about their personal experiences with spirits or with other issues relating to the paranormal. I also have 15 years of expertise as a seasoned paranormal investigator, investigating both well-known and rumored haunted locations across America. And for the record, I do not care if you believe me or not. I won't debate or argue with skeptics or religious people who object to my psychic medium abilities. If you'd like to know why, you can read my post here, where I explain my reasons. Honestly, I don't need the approval of Christians to be who I am.

I am aware of the existence of spirits. Of course Jesus did call some of them demons. But that doesn't matter -- according to what I understand, the dead are not alive. They do not communicate with the living. But if you think they do, that's what you think. And yes, there are spirits but they are not live spirits of the dead.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm speaking from the perspective of a former evangelical Christian who understands how the game of evangelism is played. Being a former Christian appears to have put a target on my back because whenever some Christians learn that I am no longer a Christian, they seem to resort to immediately threatening me with God's wrath and hellfire. I recently encountered a situation in which several Christians accused me of being a witch and tried to learn personal information about me in order to confront me (read here). Nothing occurred because these Christians were unable to find out any information about me that would have allowed them to confront me.

As a former evangelical Christian, I know that Christians feel compelled to spread the gospel and convert nonbelievers to Christianity, but now that I'm on the opposite side, I find evangelizing by Christians to be quite annoying. It also makes me feel ashamed because it reminds me that I was once overbearing with other non-Christians and even with Christians who didn't believe exactly as I did. I have even apologized to some of these people since I left Christianity. I know that there are several other former Christians on RF, so I was wondering if they've also been confronted by Christians about no longer being a Christian and how they handled it. If you are not an ex-Christian but you've been preached at and coerced by Christians to convert to Christianity, then how did you handle the situation?

I understand your feelings. As a Jew, I get targeted all the time by Christians. I realize that it is just a part of their religion to want to share their gospel, but honestly, they aren't saying anything that I haven't heard a thousand times and am sick of.

 

[ChristineM]

OK, whatever.
But at any rate, I can say with certainty that the idea of eternal torture in some hell is simply not in the Bible, or consistent with the God I know and strive to honor.
...

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

I understand the bible OT paints the Abrahamic god as a really nasty piece of work. Which is part is of what lead me to atheiem.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

But wait, there's more.

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." Jude 1:7

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out." Mark 9:43

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41