Another Gnosticism Question

[mystic man]

Alright I've got a question about Gnosticism. Actually 2...

1. Is there a set doctorine of beliefs Gnostics have to believe to be Gnostics or is it just a mind set/practise/philosophy?

2. Does Gnosticism include a "mystical/esoteric" interpretation of Scripture(s)?

(bonus question). What is Gnosticism?

 

[Halcyon]

1. Is there a set doctorine of beliefs Gnostics have to believe to be Gnostics or is it just a mind set/practise/philosophy?

Nope, but kinda. I would expect anyone identifying themselves as a Gnostic to believe that, a) the world we experience is in some way illusitory and, b) understanding of the true nature of reality can be gained via gnosis.

2. Does Gnosticism include a "mystical/esoteric" interpretation of Scripture(s)?

That's pretty much all it deals in.

(bonus question). What is Gnosticism?

Good question, religious scholars are still arguing about that. I would say Gnosticism is the Abrahamic religions version of Buddhism.

 

[Random]

1. Is there a set doctorine of beliefs Gnostics have to believe to be Gnostics or is it just a mind set/practise/philosophy?

Most agree on the creation mythology of Gnosticism, that is incl. the All-Father or Source as the True God from which all spiritual beings and souls emanate, Sophia as the Goddess and her offspring the Demiurge as false god and author of the illusory material creation. Also, most agree to three classes of sentient being; hylics, who are egos caught up in identification with the Body (then called the eidolon), psychics who are initiated into the Mystery and are on a progressive path to gnosis (divine illumination, mastery of esoteric knowlege and enlightenment), and finally pneumatics who are fully self-realzied, awakened souls. The rest of the details differed greatly from sect to sect during the time Gnosticism thrived in the ancient world, but today Neo-Gnosticism always includes the figure of Christ-Jesus as the one who symbolically frees the gnostic from the binds of ignorance thru his wisdom and enlightened knowlege.

2. Does Gnosticism include a "mystical/esoteric" interpretation of Scripture(s)?

That's what it's all about, as Halcyon said.

bonus question). What is Gnosticism?

Gnosticism is @ the core of the perennial Mystery religion which underlies virtually all of the exoteric ones, Abrahamic or Dharmic. But on the face of it, it is very similar to Buddhism.

 

[mystic man]

Would it be fair to say if someone believes in this Gnosis, the illusory nature of the world and the teacher(the Buddha(ish) figure) that he/she is a Gnostic?

Do you see these Sophia, Demiurge as "literal" beings?

And Lastly is "Unitarian Gnosticism" possible? Not "UU" Unitarian.

 

[Random]

Would it be fair to say if someone believes in this Gnosis, the illusory nature of the world and the teacher(the Buddha(ish) figure) that he/she is a Gnostic?

It would, but belief is not gnosis, higher enlightened and secret knowlege is.

Do you see these Sophia, Demiurge as "literal" beings?

No I don't, they're symbols.

And Lastly is "Unitarian Gnosticism" possible? Not "UU" Unitarian.

I don't know what you mean, but if you invented it, no problem. The Gnostic Monad was a unitarian doctrine amongst early gnostics.

 

[mystic man]

So, Gnosticism = Esoteric Interpretation of Scripture(s) that would lead you to the "gnosis" which "liberates" the "soul" from the material "world". Excuse the extensive use of "quotations".

 

[mystic man]

This is very confusing stuff lol. I WILL get to the bottom of this!

So would Buddhism be considered a Gnostic religion?

 

[alpha&omega]

read about the essenes from qumran,the dead sea scrolls and most imortantly the nag hamadi texts,mary was kissed by jesus lol,the new testament is greek and mithriac,constantines solar religion,gnostic is what jesus was before he became christ!the snake is revered....eg.medical symbol snake and the staff!the dead sea scroll where covered up by the vatican for 40+ yrs,nag hamadi where half used as fuel for a egyptian peasant to cook before the discovery of there meaning wich pre date and contradict many themes of the new testament lol,coptic or egyptian christianity is closer to gnostic than any other recent religion than any thing else ive found!aberax is in a strugle for light and dark,zorasterism,taoism r similer.matter,and the seeking of understanding r core,the snake is not evil ciriosity,its the wanting of knowing and understandig,essenes,hebrew,templers,masons,gothic churches even the jesuits r related!the king james version of the bible is the most gnostic and apoctiliptic.

 

[michel]

This is very confusing stuff lol. I WILL get to the bottom of this!

So would Buddhism be considered a Gnostice religion?

My good friend Halcyon gave you some pretty good answers; your last question is an interesting one, and I can see why you ask it - You would have to ask Bhuddists for the answer though, although, in many ways I think you are probably correct.

Gnosis (to me) is all about a personal spiritual relationship with God arrived at from intuition and meditation, and prayer. The strange thing is that my beliefs (arrived at from gnosis) are not that different from some of the Christian church's beliefs; I would have to say that I "fit in" quite well with Roman Catholics, Latter Day saints, Chuch of England and even Judaism...but always not quite "within the boundaries" of each of the above; I just can't be labelled.........

 

[Halcyon]

Would it be fair to say if someone believes in this Gnosis, the illusory nature of the world and the teacher(the Buddha(ish) figure) that he/she is a Gnostic?

The teacher for most Gnostic sects was Jesus. But yeah, pretty much. If you're interested in reading Gnostic texts I would suggest The Gnostic Bible by Marvin Meyer, its crammed with good stuff.

Do you see these Sophia, Demiurge as "literal" beings?

I used to, yes. But if you do you also need to understand their symbolic meaning, otherwise just believing in them is useless.

And Lastly is "Unitarian Gnosticism" possible? Not "UU" Unitarian.

Like Random said, the Gnostic God is a Monad i.e. it is the One that is the origin of all other phenomena in the universe. In Gnosticism the Monad is generally split up into a myriad of pseudo-deities such as Sophia, the Logos, Barbelo and even the Demiurge which as a total form the Pleroma aka Fullness of God.

[QUOTE-mystic man]So would Buddhism be considered a Gnostice religion? [/QUOTE]
Interesting question. I would probably say no, simply because the concept of God is not emphasised. But it's as close as dammit.

 

[mystic man]

Okay got it, I think...

 

[mystic man]

Alright so Gnosticism isn't a dogmatic religion? Swell.

 

[gnostic]

What is Gnosticism?

Good question, religious scholars are still arguing about that. I would say Gnosticism is the Abrahamic religions version of Buddhism.

Or the other way around, Halcyon - Gnosticism is a "Buddhist version of Abrahamic religions".

Is there a gnostic version of Islam?

 

[mystic man]

Is there a gnostic version of Islam?

Well... Sufism crosses over into Gnosticism a bit. But of course they believe God is perfect.

 

[NIX]

It would, but belief is not gnosis, higher enlightened and secret knowlege is.

May I throw in a question or two?

This "secret knowledge", is it a "handed on" knowledge like that of an ancient mystery school?
Or is it a secret knowledge that comes from within?
(hidden God knowledge sourced/revealed from within the individual/gnostic directly).

Is part of "reading" as a gnostic, reading your own personally inspired interpretation of said scriptures?
Or are there "secret interpretations" that must be handed on/down to you?

Thank you for your answers!

*Nixxie*

 

[Random]

This "secret knowledge", is it a "handed on" knowledge like that of an ancient mystery school?

Originally it was, yes, many allied sects practicing in secret. But when Gnosticism went "public" (so to speak) after Christ and subsequently the RCC drove Gnosticism undergroud the traditions were carried on only by a few in deadly secret societies.

Or is it a secret knowledge that comes from within?
(hidden God knowledge sourced/revealed from within the individual/gnostic directly).

It is within and without. The Gnostic initiate learns to interpret Scripture and all of the associated myth-themes and symbolism with them, thru a graduation from the ignorant hylic state to pneumatic illumination. But he is free to bring new ideas to his own interpretation these revealed, hidden truths. He may also "Source" new information thru meditation, samadhi and philosophical exercise of the mind.

Is part of "reading" as a gnostic, reading your own personally inspired interpretation of said scriptures? Or are there "secret interpretations" that must be handed on/down to you?

Again, both. The secret meanings are revealed by a master if you progress and are trustworthy enough, but interpretations of their relationship to truth, self and reality in terms of depth and understanding are left to the initiate. To put it another way; no one Gnostic views the implications and consequences of the Truth in exactly the same way. This is how it is meant to be.

 

[gnostic]

But of course they believe God is perfect.

The Gnostics also believed in the First Aeon, known as the Parent of Entirety or Great Invisible Spirit, to be a perfect god. This Invisible Spirit had nothing to do with the creation of the physical world, or with the first humans.

Other perfect aeons were Barbelo and Autogenes.

The Creator of this physical world, however, is not perfect. This Creator was an offspring of Sophia, and the gnostics considered him to be a Demiurge, hence a false god. He is known by other names, Yaldbaoth (Ialdbaoth), Samael (Blind God), Chief Archon, Creator. This Demiurge could create humans, but could not give humans "life". This was Sophia's doing. She blew breath into Adam, giving Adam a soul.

Sophia plays the role, very much like that of Prometheus (Forethought), helper of mankind. Although, Sophia's name mean "wisdom", she was also referred to as Afterthought, a name given to Prometheus' brother, Epimetheus (Afterthought), while Barbelo, also a feminine principle, referred to as Forethought.

 

[Godfather89]

This is very confusing stuff lol. I WILL get to the bottom of this!

So would Buddhism be considered a Gnostic religion?

Believe me it can be very confusing... Trying to understand the Gnostic Cosmology and Salvation process. Gnosis means "Intuitive Knowing" which is basically not a belief, because a belief is something you just have no evidence for. Unfortunately, mainstream Christianity left this out, according to mainstream Christianity I am just supposed to be faithful in this life and be rewarded in the hereafter. However, to Gnostic Christian approach, now is the time for ones faith to be supplemented in the intuitive knowing of what God is.

Well the difference between Gnostic and Buddhist is Gnostic's have a God (albeit more so closer to an infinite verb) while Buddhist don't have a God. Since the Gnostic God is more like an infinite verb (actuality and potentiality) than we could say that the Gnostic God is more or less like the Buddhist state of Nirvana.

If God is infinite than God cannot be confined as a noun (person, place or thing) but rather as a verb (actuality and potentiality = Being and Becoming). From this I kind of laugh at both Theism and Atheism because they (dis)believe in the existence an entity or an abstract object called God. So from this I could say God is all the nouns, verbs and adjectives and God is none of them, Because God would transcend them.

So Buddhism could be consider a Gnostic Religion OR Gnosticism could be a Buddhist religion; their are reports that people from the Far East had come to the western world during the times of early Christianity. As far as I could tell Buddhism helping in the aiding of Gnosticism could be very real possibility.

 

[Godfather89]

Alright so Gnosticism isn't a dogmatic religion? Swell.

Gnosticism is more like a spiritual tradition. Gnosis is what founded Gnosticism, without Gnosis their is no Gnosticism. Because, of this Gnosticism is loose and based off of what an individual's own Gnosis reveals. It has some doctrines, however it is what I call minimally dogmatic because, of its very loose nature.

The spirit bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

Spiritual revelation is the basis for a spiritual tradition. Now a spiritual tradition has two options: (1) Maintain its spiritual nature or (2) become a dogmatic religion. Gnosticism is a permanent spiritual tradition (as is Buddhism), this is why the world cant stand it because, it goes against their dogmatic religious nature and dogma is devoid of Spirit. The Counterfeit Spirit that the Gnostic's warn us about in The Secret Book of John is made manifest in dogmatic religions.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Alright I've got a question about Gnosticism. Actually 2...

1. Is there a set doctorine of beliefs Gnostics have to believe to be Gnostics or is it just a mind set/practise/philosophy?

2. Does Gnosticism include a "mystical/esoteric" interpretation of Scripture(s)?

(bonus question). What is Gnosticism?

there are many Gnostic groups....

if we are talking actual groups that have been labelled Gnostic, not including modern movements such as AUn Woer or Crowley.... then there are some unifying ideas, I would argue:

we are not of this world, some would argue we are "aliens"..essentially we are asleep and must awaken

transcendance...unite opposites and make a 3rd

the world is not as it seems....

there are 7 levels to escape to reach a further 8th

...

so cosmology may differ slightly, but Gnosticsm is essentially about getting out of prison..although some would argue in a literalism... one needs to look to the Gosp of Thomas and see that the world is not a prison, more that our perception of the world is a prison..like not seeing things correctly. now some will point to the Manichaeans for example here, well if one digs deep enough they too did not really hate the world, and nor were they strictly dualistic... so much for WIKI...

Interpretation of scriptures is centered around freeing yourself..and dependant upon group.

Example, the Valentinains saw the 12 apostles *** representing the zodiac
the Sethians saw the apostles as representing Archons (evil agents that imprison us), we see this in the Gospel of Judas which proclaims Judas is the demi Urge!

just a quick rant...