It was photoshopped onto the t-shirt in one of the pictures. I stated that the comments below found nothing wrong with it. I disagree that such a comment is not hateful, but that it's supportive of violence against "sluts."
I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously. Look at the full picture very closely in context. It's distasteful humor.
And like I said to FH, you have to understand that I live for the stage, and I have been the target of reviews in our local media. People are people. Misogyny is misogyny.
It's not that simple, Heather, particularly, when we're discussing feminism and the differences in how women and men approach feministic views.
Let's talk art for a spell. You are living art when you perform. I may see something totally different in a performance than that which you intended to project, just as you might interpret art on my face differently than what I intended.
Misognyny is only misogyny per our own understanding of the term and how we apply it to situations.
FH and I haven't seen misogynistic comments where you and others have. That doesn't make you wrong. That also doesn't make us wrong.
And we acknowledge that it's arrogant to assume that the women in these photographs may not have construed such comments to be misogynistic just because we haven't construed such context to be misogynistic.
Isn't it always different when it becomes a personal story?
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It shouldn't be. I am attempting to apply the same logic to other situations as well. There's a difference between being verbally attacked in an unprovoked manner and someone commenting on that which has submitted for comment.
Well first, there's a debate earlier in the thread that questioned whether or not the women in the photographs willingly submitted their photos. You're under the assumption that they all did, and that assumption has been put under scrutiny.
I'm not assuming that they all submitted their photographs. In fact, I assume that many in fact, did not. However, I do assume, based upon the context of the photographs that these women were willful participants in the snapping of these photos. I assume willing participation in the photograph...not necessarily willing submission of the photographs to the website.
As FH and I have both said, if these photos were submitted without knowledge of the people in the photos, action should be taken to remove them. If people were not of legal age to participate in such context, legal action should be taken. No dispute.
Second, some would say (I wouldn't say this) that you appearing in public by itself appearance alone is inviting comments. There's a whole thread on fat-shaming that addresses the phenomena in our culture, and that the people who justify their behavior does place the onus on men and women like you who they see as not taking responsibility for your behavior. There are people who would suggest if you let yourself go like that, then what do you expect when you walk out in public?
I don't have a problem with people saying that I'm responsible for my body and behavior. I am responsible for my body and behavior. I don't take issue with people having an opinion about the way that I look.
What I don't condone is DISCRIMINATION and I wouldn't condone this for anyone. I don't condone you looking at me when I walk through the door and writing me off as not being able to do something before you interview me or test my capabilities. This has been my consistent argument.
Anything else I've shared has simply been retort to comments that I've disagreed with, but on a fundamental level, Heather, I have ALWAYS respected the right of people to object to my obesity and say whatever the hell they want to about it. As long as those opinions do not infringe upon my personal rights - we don't have a problem because I know who I am and what I'm capable of. You can **** me off but you can't really fat shame me. Only I can really fat-shame myself. Society can **** me off with standards of beauty and people can irritate me with their close mindedness but they don't break me.
I don't expect other people to change. I am change in my life.
It's a pretty sad position to take, IMO, by saying that you deserve your treatment, when you yourself say that you did nothing to invite such comments. I'm across the board with the live and let live mentality, and challenging others who think they're justified with NOT letting others live and just live.
I didn't say that I deserved bull **** comments. But, here's the thing, unintelligent and bigoted comments against me do not alter my ability to live freely. I'm still able to be successful, happy and healthy regardless as to what people think or say about the way I look. I know I'm pretty without some ******* in public justifying that for me. I'm human. Hurtful things...hurt. But, I'm fat, Heather. Seriously, why is it going to alter my life if someone points out to me that I'm fat?
It's like, no ****, sherlock. Thanks for pointing that out. Have a nice day.
I'm consistently saying that you are living your life, that you ought to be free from disparaging comments and harassment just because you're living your life and enjoying who you are. I find the same defense ought to be applied to women who flip their tops up for a camera. Both of you are in public. I'm on stage. So all of us are living freely with our choices. That is what I defend.
As a generality, I agree with you.
What I'm cautious of, is situational context. Because, the woman who decides to flip up her shirt in a public place could potentially offend other people if it's an environment where there are people of various belief systems. Not everyone will find her expression of freedom acceptable in every situation. She's not free from comment.
I'm sure people felt justified in screaming at the suffragettes, at women who entered the work force and attained positions of power, at women who convinced their religious organizations to begin ordaining women, and women who got on the pill for the purpose of preventing a pregnancy. Women who walk around with condoms in their purses. Women who decided to wear bikinis. Women who decided to march for the E.R.A.
And that's okay. People were allowed to feel justified at screaming at women for suggesting change.
I'm not focusing on the feelings of women, but the perpetuation of the attitude that women deserve the disparaging comments by bringing it on themselves. I'm not telling people that they should never be allowed to speak against feminism, but instead I'm challenging the motivation as to what aspects of feminism they feel so justified in offering. And when it comes to women taking their tops off or breastfeeding in class in front of students, I'm not telling people to never speak their minds, but I'm challenging what is motivating the hostile reactions to women who are living their lives as freely as they believe men
Fully with you here, Heather. Let's talk about the women in the pictures in the facebook page. What hostile reactions have you noted, save the debateable "sluts get cut" photoshopped picture?
