answers about morality?

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

dalek?

A robot race bent on killing off everyone.

 

[Segev Moran]

Killing a person is wrong.

Its not wrong in self defense
Its not wrong in war
Its not wrong if your a criminal(We can kill you)
Its not wrong if your defending the law(Cops can kill you)

Its only wrong if you kill a person for personal gain or enjoyment.

How is that logical?

Lets break it down to each statement:

self defense: it is logic that if someone tries to kill you, you will be allowed to defend yourself. hope we agree on that.

war: war is not a logical thing. there is no logic in war. it is usually based on nonsense and b.s. reasons.

in war, it is not wrong to defend yourself, but it is wrong to go to war over money, for example.

criminal: it is wrong to kill someone if you are a criminal. i can't see how one being a criminal makes it ok to kill someone else?

law: it depends on what law you are trying to defend.
it will be wrong to kill someone who shoplifted bread from a store, for example. it will be ok to kill someone to save someone else from being killed as another example.

 

[Segev Moran]

A robot race bent on killing off everyone.

thanks for explaining.

 

[bobhikes]

Lets break it down to each statement:

self defense: it is logic that if someone tries to kill you, you will be allowed to defend yourself. hope we agree on that.

war: war is not a logical thing. there is no logic in war. it is usually based on nonsense and b.s. reasons.

in war, it is not wrong to defend yourself, but it is wrong to go to war over money, for example.

criminal: it is wrong to kill someone if you are a criminal. i can't see how one being a criminal makes it ok to kill someone else?

law: it depends on what law you are trying to defend.
it will be wrong to kill someone who shoplifted bread from a store, for example. it will be ok to kill someone to save someone else from being killed as another example.

If War is not logical than that blows away your logical defense of morality. You agreed society sets morals and society uses moral defenses for going to war.

It is wrong for a criminal to kill someone but not for the state to kill criminals.

You dodged the police who only need the threat of possible harm to be allowed to kill.

There's also Suicide (Person killing self), Euthanasia (person killing self) and Abortion(person killing offspring). Logically when is a person a person.

 

[viole]

Killing a person is wrong.

Its not wrong in self defense
Its not wrong in war
Its not wrong if your a criminal(We can kill you)
Its not wrong if your defending the law(Cops can kill you)

Its only wrong if you kill a person for personal gain or enjoyment.

How is that logical?

Was it wrong to burn people at the stake, under the assumption that the perp is strongly convinced that by doing that it will guarantee the eternal salvation of the victim?

Or to burn witches, under the assumption of strongly believing that their removal will provide benefits to the community?

Ciao

- viole

 

[bobhikes]

Was it wrong to burn people at the stake, under the assumption that the perp is strongly convinced that by doing that it will guarantee the eternal salvation of the victim?

Or to burn witches, under the assumption of strongly believing that their removal will provide benefits to the community?

Ciao

- viole

That's my point morals are set by emotional states of society at whole not by logic. His claim is that he can logically solve any moral dilemma.

 

[viole]

That's my point morals are set by emotional states of society at whole not by logic. His claim is that he can logically solve any moral dilemma.

Well, I agree with you. Necessarily, since I am not a moral realist. I wish it would be possible to solve analytically moral questions, but I do not believe it is.

In my view, moral statements are closer to statements about food than to mathematical puzzles. The latter seem to exist independently from biology and culture, the formers don't.

Ciao

- viole

 

[MonkeyFire]

Objective morals are things like passive happiness, or godly perfection. They can be true before we are even aware.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I Have yet to come across a situation that involves a "morality" dilemma, that cannot be easily solved if you had more details about the situation.
I find it to be very contradicting with the question of objective moral.

So the answer of theists (that i have met so far) to the objective morale question, is a deity that dictates our morality, and it is our "quest" to figure out what it is.
so in a way they believe (or hope) that somehow one day we will have a knowledge of 100% of everything.
We will know everything that you can possibly know about any situation or event. (i assume it is also the belief of most religions, what you will call "enlightenment" in a way - becoming one with knowledge).

It is possible, btw, that our "near" future can be like that, if all our brains will be connected in one giant "brain grid" or some sci-f concept like this one

Can you provide me with one moral question that cannot be solved without knowledge?

Abortion is the most complicated moral issue we face because it involves the rights of two individuals, and at what point do we acquire the right to life. At what point DO we acquire the inalienable right to life, and is there an objective knowledge possible of that point?

 

[Segev Moran]

If War is not logical than that blows away your logical defense of morality. You agreed society sets morals and society uses moral defenses for going to war.

That is not true.
Most wars are not due to moral reasons. they are for pride, greed and stupidity.
Can you give me an example of a war that was made on moral basis?

It is wrong for a criminal to kill someone but not for the state to kill criminals.

I didn't say it is moral to kill criminals.
there are very specific reasons that should justify killing a criminal. and yes, i do believe some criminals should be executed.

You dodged the police who only need the threat of possible harm to be allowed to kill.

I think we can all agree that we still have a very long way as a society until we will successfully manage crime rates.
Only today we start to understand that force and intimidation don't really solve anything.

There's also Suicide (Person killing self)

is it immoral to kill yourself?

, Euthanasia (person killing self) and Abortion(person killing offspring).

If abortion was considered immoral, we wouldn't allow it.
same as we don't allow killing infants.

Logically when is a person a person.

??

 

[Segev Moran]

Abortion is the most complicated moral issue we face because it involves the rights of two individuals, and at what point do we acquire the right to life. At what point DO we acquire the inalienable right to life, and is there an objective knowledge possible of that point?

Abortion can be categorized.
for example, i can't see how abortion to save life is immoral.
I can't see how a 12 yo girl doing abortion is immoral.
I cannot accept abortion out of crows control for example.
I cannot accept abortion out of "filtering" and things like that.
It is not something that we are yet ready to decide.
for now, it seems abortion is an accepted procedure.

 

[bobhikes]

That is not true.
Most wars are not due to moral reasons. they are for pride, greed and stupidity.
Can you give me an example of a war that was made on moral basis?

I didn't say it is moral to kill criminals.
there are very specific reasons that should justify killing a criminal. and yes, i do believe some criminals should be executed.

I think we can all agree that we still have a very long way as a society until we will successfully manage crime rates.
Only today we start to understand that force and intimidation don't really solve anything.

is it immoral to kill yourself?

If abortion was considered immoral, we wouldn't allow it.
same as we don't allow killing infants.

??

You haven't logically defended anything. Your beliefs do not make something logical. You need to present facts if you make the claim that all morals can be solved logically. I don't see it you haven't used logic at all yet.
Your comments
Pride, Greed these are moral values
I do believe some criminals (not logic)
I think we all can agree (not logic)
Is it immoral to kill yourself (question)
If abortion was considered immoral, we wouldn't allow it. (not accurate many places around the world do not allow it, those that do allow abortion have limitations)
??To determine logically if Abortion is moral or not you would need to logically define a person.

You keep dodging where is your logic?

 

[joe1776]

How so? So here is a question, please tell me which is more moral: You have two buttons, one kills a living being, the other kills a living being. you must choose one button. which is the more moral decision?

I haven't a clue. You haven't given enough facts to make that a question that conscience can judge.

What do you mean? something is wrong? yes, they saw a dead body that died not in a natural way. (like an axe in the head or something)

No, don't fight this. I'm going to prove you wrong. Assume any set of facts that clearly support a murder.

Not all those laws are useless

I'll bet you can't name one that isn't. Now, to be clear, were talking about laws that are supposed to guide judgment on a specific moral case.

Lost you here,

In the USA, our laws on murder have a history dating back a thousand years. They have been edited countless times. And yet, the same killing can be justifiable self-defense in many of the 50 states but not in others. When those laws agree with the judgment of the conscience of an unbiased jury, they are coincidentally right. When they conflict, they are potential biases capable of throwing justice off course. Useless.

 

[joe1776]

Can you give one example of moral law that is not based on knowledge and logic?

Laws are the product of the reasoning faculty of our brains, so there are no laws that are not based on knowledge and logic.

However, moral judgments are immediate, intuitive judgments of conscience that derive from the subconscious. Aquinas was wrong. They are not judgments of reason. And conscience doesn't need to be "informed" by the Catholic Church or anyone else.

 

[new]

I Have yet to come across a situation that involves a "morality" dilemma, that cannot be easily solved if you had more details about the situation.
I find it to be very contradicting with the question of objective moral.

So the answer of theists (that i have met so far) to the objective morale question, is a deity that dictates our morality, and it is our "quest" to figure out what it is.
so in a way they believe (or hope) that somehow one day we will have a knowledge of 100% of everything.
We will know everything that you can possibly know about any situation or event. (i assume it is also the belief of most religions, what you will call "enlightenment" in a way - becoming one with knowledge).

It is possible, btw, that our "near" future can be like that, if all our brains will be connected in one giant "brain grid" or some sci-f concept like this one

Can you provide me with one moral question that cannot be solved without knowledge?

sorry I could not understand the question "Can you provide me with one moral question that cannot be solved without knowledge?". are you asking a moral question which can be solved with knowledge ( as you said "which can not be solved without knowledge").
I just wish to share that i feel that morality is knowledge. goodness is knowledge and goodness is god or god is goodness itself.

 

[miodrag]

Things to consider
Evolution of morality Evolution of morality - Wikipedia
Morality without religion Moral behavior in animals

 

[Kemosloby]

Bible says on the judgement day everything will be "laid bare" everybody will know everything in order to judge correctly. It won't happen in this lifetime, and it's nothing that mankind can achieve, it's simply that one day God will make everything known to us.

 

[joe1776]

Abortion can be categorized.
for example, i can't see how abortion to save life is immoral.
I can't see how a 12 yo girl doing abortion is immoral.
I cannot accept abortion out of crows control for example.
I cannot accept abortion out of "filtering" and things like that.
It is not something that we are yet ready to decide.
for now, it seems abortion is an accepted procedure.

It's simpler than that. When someone says that "Abortion is murder!" -- they've made up their own moral rule. If they were right, then they should also feel an urge to punish the killer. But, while they are willing to punish "co-conspirators, they are not inclined to punish the woman who terminates her pregnancy. In other words, they fail to verify their rule.

We are born with the inclination to punish wrongdoers.

According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality. A deep sense of good and evil is bred in the bone. His research shows that babies and toddlers can judge the goodness and badness of others' actions; they want to reward the good and punish the bad; they act to help those in distress; they feel guilt, shame, pride, and righteous anger.

 

[Petch41]

Having read through the comments the thing I find hard to understand is how so many posters seem to think that morals come from within the individual. Morals are societal rules imposed upon the individual. The rules that someone uses to govern themselves would be ethics. To my mind there is no basis for an "objective" morality and the mistake some theists make when stating that without one everyone is thrown back upon their own decisions is that they fail to realise that no matter where a moral code sits on their good to bad scale it is a construct of the society that the individual has to survive within.

 

[Ponder This]

A robot race bent on killing off everyone.

Actually.. Daleks are a race genetically engineered without pity, compassion, or remorse to "hate" non-Daleks.
The Daleks live inside of machines, giving the impression that they are robots. These machines serve the purposes of protecting their precious Dalek purity from the contaminations of the universe and providing them with powerful weaponry to exterminate everyone else with.