Unless you agree to play the song for some people and refuse it for others, your analogy doesn't really work.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Anti-gay baker now takes stand against birthdays for trans people
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Orbit
I'm a planet
Good to know, but you missed my point.
That is well and good, but what do you think actual transgenders should do? Hide or announce their situation? And why?
stvdv
Veteran Member
What do you try to explain to me?
Do you think I am wrong in my thinking somewhere?
Do you think you know better than I when it comes to my feelings/conscience?
stvdv
Veteran Member
So I guess that this analogy does really work. At least for me it worked, it's a very good example.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
I'm not sure your understanding my post. I know I'm not understanding yours.
Shad
Veteran Member
The Baker ignored part of what the SCOTUS ruling in his previous case contains. Artist expression needs to be addressed another day. It only ruled the CC was biased not his religion trumped whatever he wanted.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Those are very good questions. Dozens of possible answers.
A): I don't want to eat a cake baked by a "transgender judgmental baker" adding judgmental thoughts into my cake:
1): I tell nothing, so I get a plain cake without judgmental thoughts
2): I tell him I am a transgender. But then risking he sells me a cake with judgments and lying about it
B): I am a transgender who feels the need to be accepted by others, at least by the baker making the cake
1): Tell him and keep trying till I find the right baker
C): I am a transgender who likes to test christian bakers how good they follow Jesus teaching "do not judge"
1): Tell them I am a transgender
D): I am a transgender who just wants a cake, and not feeling the need to debate about "transgender"
1): I just order the cake and give the baker "carte blanche" to make a nice cake
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
So he blatantly lied when he claimed that it was supporting a wedding by baking a wedding cake that violated his beliefs and that he would gladly make them a birthday cake. Such a shame that speaking untruths doesn't violate this man's conscience.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
He means that it is one thing to discriminate between songs and another to discriminate between people.
It is one thing to refuse to play "Brown Sugar" by the Rolling Stones ( you were discriminating between songs ), and it is another to be fine playing it for everyone but me ( you would be discriminating between people ).
It wouldn't make any money. That's less than 5% of the population, and trans people are like less than 1 percent of that.
Personally, I'm against this only because if someones religious beliefs are at odds with what they are being asked to do they should be able to refuse. Many religions have prohibitions against supporting people whom conflict with their beliefs, mine no exception. Though in my religion, the prohibition is against those of Abrahamic beliefs not particularly against the darling of the day social issues. So, should I go to jail or pay fines because I won't make a cake for them? That's the argument... It's not an argument, it's stupidity. Freedom of association is a protected right in this country and it should be upheld.
The Bible has prohibitions toward gays and dressing in women's clothes and all sorts of things along that lines. While I don't agree with it, it is part of their faith and they have a right to it. The government and courts should have no ability to limit our rights or beliefs.
Apparently, Christians forget about that whole Matthew 7:1 thing, but the OT specifically prohibits gay and trans-sexual behaviors. We could argue that their refusal is following their religion to a tee, so for me that puts it out of the realm of court decisions and whatever.
Sure, it's being a douche to people, but it's probably being a bigger douche to force them to serve others against their will. Honestly, I think the market will sort it out -- if enough people are offended they won't buy their baked goods and they'll lose too much money and recant. If not, well there are enough people who share the same belief and they'll keep going.
Anyway, we could argue that the trans-gender person going to them after the gay ruling is just profiteering. Something I don't actually respect...
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
Bluntly, I fear the whole T situation is a money maker for surgeons, therapists and drug makers. I think a lot of folk who are told they are T perhaps just need some validation, some real friends. I've been told that lots of T folk are somewhere along the Autism spectrum. Lots of T folk have been rejected and taken advantage of and the suicide rate is still over 40% even post surgery. Hiding is a personal choice. Somehow, it seems someone always finds out and tells.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Interesting.
He didn't respond to your last statement. I wonder why?
i understand your point.
I think what most people like to do is grab on to one piece of information, and run with it, without considering that they may not have the full story, or all the facts. but just because it involves someone that makes a decision against their view. They are happy to take a stance against that person regardless.
I don't have all the facts, but I can certainly see the reasoning in your argument.
Who knows if the baker refused because the cake was to have two women, or two men kissing, or in a sexual position, efc.?
Even if it did not have any of that, so what?
Does the baker have to do everything that everybody wants him to do? Does he not have rights.
Say he was a a white man that hated blacks. Is this not still going on?
I don't see this guy complaining.
Zimbabwean journalist gets to swim all by himself after some white folks refused to share the pool with him in Uganda
He could, but would that change people's hearts?
Are there not black bakers? What's wrong with them... can't they bake a cake?
Or maybe there are no gay bakers. Too bad. Now I seem to be taking sides right? No i am not.
The way I see it... we live in a world where people make choices, and we have to live with our choices - whether people are against it or for it.
Are you saying that you don't believe Transgenders truly exist as such?Bluntly, I fear the whole T situation is a money maker for surgeons, therapists and drug makers. I think a lot of folk who are told they are T perhaps just need some validation, some real friends. I've been told that lots of T folk are somewhere along the Autism spectrum. Lots of T folk have been rejected and taken advantage of and the suicide rate is still over 40% even post surgery. Hiding is a personal choice. Somehow, it seems someone always finds out and tells.
He makes custom cakes in a wide range of styles for some people and not others.
The shop's web site tells customers that they can "choose from any of our many flavors, frostings, and fillings" and says that "if you can think it up, Jack can make it into a cake!"
MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP | great cakes since 1993 | 303.763.5754
Apparently he's happy to make these offers to the general public, but not to LGBTQ people.
Asking for a cake of a customer-chosen specific colour, iced with frosting of another customer-chosen specific colour, is completely in line with what they normally offer.
This is not the same as you refusing to play a specific song for anyone.
ecco
Veteran Member
I didn't respond because his replies indicated to me that further discussion with him wouldn't be worth my time.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I don't think he was being unreasonable.
You did respond to the post though. I think at least you could have responded to the last point in the post... at least. He made a valid point imo.