Antifa

[Epic Beard Man]

Found an interesting video posted by CNN regarding ANTIFA. What the alt-right movement is to the right wing, is ANTIFA too far left what it is to the left wing? I'm really liking ANTIFA's message concerning it being against ultranationalist/authoritarian ideology (Fascism), however I am against some of the attitudes among the group concerning being violent towards people with Nazi ideology especially if unprovoked. But the following video is interesting.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I was listening to a group of "Occupiers" and many in the group said one of their tactics is telling people they belong to another group.

 

[YmirGF]

Found an interesting video posted by CNN regarding ANTIFA. What the alt-right movement is to the right wing, is ANTIFA too far left what it is to the left wing? I'm really liking ANTIFA's message concerning it being against ultranationalist/authoritarian ideology (Fascism), however I am against some of the attitudes among the group concerning being violent towards people with Nazi ideology especially if unprovoked. But the following video is interesting.

Personally, I don't think have enough brains to blow themselves up. But, we can hope!

 

[Father Heathen]

The problem with SJWs, antifa, etc. isn't with what their goals are (opposing inequality, bigotry, tryanny, etc.), but rather with their chosen methods of attempting to attain them.
A good analogy would be cutting someone's head off to treat their brain tumor.

 

[Shad]

Found an interesting video posted by CNN regarding ANTIFA. What the alt-right movement is to the right wing, is ANTIFA too far left what it is to the left wing? I'm really liking ANTIFA's message concerning it being against ultranationalist/authoritarian ideology (Fascism), however I am against some of the attitudes among the group concerning being violent towards people with Nazi ideology especially if unprovoked. But the following video is interesting.

Typical whitewashing by CNN.

 

[Stevicus]

Found an interesting video posted by CNN regarding ANTIFA. What the alt-right movement is to the right wing, is ANTIFA too far left what it is to the left wing? I'm really liking ANTIFA's message concerning it being against ultranationalist/authoritarian ideology (Fascism), however I am against some of the attitudes among the group concerning being violent towards people with Nazi ideology especially if unprovoked. But the following video is interesting.

Interesting video, particularly the part in which one of the antifa's father was being interviewed. He noted that 98-99% of the country is already anti-fascist, although it would appear that the Antifa see it differently. There was another guy who compared America of today with Germany prior to the rise of Hitler, suggesting that if it wasn't for people like him, America would turn fascist.

The idea of "doxxing" people is interesting - although that leads to the same kind of internet shenanigans we're accusing the Russians of doing. But...I guess all is fair in politics.

To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of this. Who are these Nazis and Fascists anyway? All I see are lower-class people - many of them probably impoverished and somehow "broken," possibly mentally ill in some way - wearing costumes and waving flags in some desperate cry for attention. That's really what we have here.

Sure, they're offensive, dangerously unbalanced, and violent - so I'm not minimizing what they're capable of. But I don't see how they're capable of taking over the government. That's where Antifa seems to grossly overstate their importance and confuses the issue more than offering any real clarity.

Fighting in the streets didn't really stop the Nazis in Germany anyway. There was a lot of street fighting prior to the Nazi rise to power - mainly between Nazis and Communists, who were also developing a nasty reputation for themselves.

In the U.S., our own homegrown Nazis were never really that much of a problem. Even the Nazis in Germany didn't really want anything to do with them, as they were mostly a bunch of crackpots. The KKK and other extreme racist elements were another matter, although even then, I don't believe Antifa were really around back then. There were other leaders and supporters of Civil Rights who led the fight - although many of them preached non-violence. There were other left-wing and anti-racist groups who were not quite so pacifist, although I don't think they called themselves "Antifa" back then.

Watching the video, I got the impression that they view what they do as more of a fashion statement than anything else. It's like a hobby, a form of entertainment, and/or some kind of sporting event for people who just like to rumble. It has no more significance to the political situation in America than two people arguing over the internet, which some people do as a hobby, a form of entertainment, and/or some kind of sporting event.

 

[Estro Felino]

"Logo of Antifaschistische Aktion, the militant anti-fascist network in 1930s Germany that inspired the Antifa movement" From Wiki



The US already has a president who is unwilling to denounce nazis without public pressure. A literal nazi was allowed to run on the republican ballot in Illinois. Arthur Jones, holocaust denier.

We have white nationalists like David Duke yelling "Heil Trump" and seeing next to no right wing press backlash. The right wing in this country is more than willing to foster and give fascism a space to grow because at the moment it benefits the GOP. Eventually the GOP will be able to become even more violent than it already is and there will be a mass base supporting them; if we cannot combat this rise.

You forgot Richard Spencer who even follows Mussolini's granddaughter on Twitter and is friends with her.

 

[Stevicus]

"Logo of Antifaschistische Aktion, the militant anti-fascist network in 1930s Germany that inspired the Antifa movement" From Wiki

I know that they were in Germany, but I was referring to the US Civil Rights Movement during the 50s and 60s. Was Antifa involved much in that?

The US already has a president who is unwilling to denounce nazis without public pressure. A literal nazi was allowed to run on the republican ballot in Illinois. Arthur Jones, holocaust denier.

We have white nationalists like David Duke yelling "Heil Trump" and seeing next to no right wing press backlash. The right wing in this country is more than willing to foster and give fascism a space to grow because at the moment it benefits the GOP. Eventually the GOP will be able to become even more violent than it already is and there will be a mass base supporting them; if we cannot combat this rise.

The question still remains, if combating fascism is the goal, can we be certain that Antifa is barking up the right tree? Aren't they just going after the "easy meat"? Do they ever attack anyone or anything with any real power?

 

[Altfish]

A small faction of the ideologically driven left have always turned to violence as the only way to get noticed.
The right has money, power and can buy influence, in general the left has no money.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Antifa is group who wants to rightfully protest anything fascist, but they go about it the wrong way. But when the opposition condemns both peaceful and violent protest I can see why they would behave the way they do.

 

[Shad]

A small faction of the ideologically driven left have always turned to violence as the only way to get noticed.
The right has money, power and can buy influence, in general the left has no money.

You seem to be ignoring the corporate left and the near monopoly it has over social media.

 

[Altfish]

While I generally agree with this (I like that we're shifting our understanding of the left to not include the dems,) do you really think that turning to violence is a PR move for leftists? or do you think it helps mobilize in specific communities? Antifa get's overwhelmingly negative PR, so it seems like a poor strategy to get noticed.

No, it doesn't help because it plays into Fox/the Alt-Right's hands.

 

[Altfish]

You seem to be ignoring the corporate left and the near monopoly it has over social media.

Not in the UK it doesn't. The media is 90% right wing.

Unless I'm missing something Fox is pretty influential in the US

 

[Estro Felino]

A small faction of the ideologically driven left have always turned to violence as the only way to get noticed.
The right has money, power and can buy influence, in general the left has no money.

Here the powerful Vatican has openly sided with the Democratic Party.
Many Catholics feel betrayed and there are many who are leaving the Church; meanwhile in Rome neo-fascist movements exploit this anti-Papism to get consensus

 

[Shad]

Not in the UK it doesn't. The media is 90% right wing.

It applies to UK as I am talking about social media like Twitter, FB and YT. A lot of news is consumed via those sources or is a springboard to specific sources. If those companies say ban Fox they control what it's customers consume. You may not hear alternative views as said views are not available.

European right-wing can fall into the left-wing spectrum from an American POV at times.

Unless I'm missing something Fox is pretty influential in the US

Fox has a near monopoly in conservative TV as it is the only major right-leaning channel. It does not have a monopoly on all cable news. There is no equivalent to YT nor FB in size nor influence that is right-leaning. Again this can be a control issue depending on the whims of those companies.

 

[Jumi]

European right-wing can fall into the left-wing spectrum from an American POV at times.

From the European side democrats could at times be seen as a right-wing party. At least their views put on the spectrum were about as right wing as a traditional right-wing party in the EPP a decade ago. Which says a lot about how useful this right-wing left-wing rhetoric usually is.

 

[Altfish]

Here the powerful Vatican has openly sided with the Democratic Party.
Many Catholics feel betrayed and there are many who are leaving the Church; meanwhile in Rome neo-fascist movements exploit this anti-Papism to get consensus

The Catholic Church sided with Hitler, so their moral compass is somewhat lacking.

 

[Shad]

From the European side democrats could at times be seen as a right-wing party.

I agree.

At least their views put on the spectrum were about as right wing as a traditional right-wing party in the EPP a decade ago.

European People's Party? If so I would say parts of the Dem party is similar.

Which says a lot about how useful this right-wing left-wing rhetoric usually is.

Context needs to be considered especially regarding the US. It is worse than the imperial system....

 

[Altfish]

It applies to UK as I am talking about social media like Twitter, FB and YT. A lot of news is consumed via those sources or is a springboard to specific sources. If those companies say ban Fox they control what it's customers consume. You may not hear alternative views as said views are not available.

European right-wing can fall into the left-wing spectrum from an American POV at times.

Fox has a near monopoly in conservative TV as it is the only major right-leaning channel. It does not have a monopoly on all cable news. There is no equivalent to YT nor FB in size nor influence that is right-leaning. Again this can be a control issue depending on the whims of those companies.

There are as many right wing twitter accounts as there are left. The Russians control many of them anyway.
The likes of YT are why the Democrats lost the last election, they talk rubbish most of the time. At least Fox is told what to say and controls its presenters.

 

[Shad]

There are as many right wing twitter accounts as there are left. The Russians control many of them anyway.

No doubt. Fake accounts are not new nor surprising to me. It should be expected considering use of other media for similar purpose has been used for centuries.

The likes of YT are why the Democrats lost the last election, they talk rubbish most of the time. At least Fox is told what to say and controls its presenters.

It goes deeper than YT. Both parties are extending their support or banner to anyone that shares even minority of views. The parties are fighting to prevent a party split as the two system benefits both. Populism in the GOP. Socialism in the DNC. Extremist of different brands be it anarchists or neo-nazis. Each party is becoming a mockery of itself. Well more than each already is.