• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Anton LaVey... Devil Worshipper?

M

Mark JGS

New Member
I understand that the Satanic philosiphies of Anton Lavey suggest that modern Satanism isn't about Satanism and that the modern Satanist doesn't believe in Satan as a living entity...

Or so we are led to believe.

I have heard a few things about Anton Lavey, one of them being that he is a fraud. A fraud who actually DIDworship the 'devil' , and made up his philosiphies to draw people in, so that they would not think they are worshipping the 'devil' but indeed are... (I'm not claiming this, but I know some people have, so just thought I'd bring it up..)

I wouldn't have believed this... but here's a little bit from the Satanic Bible that has me somewhat confused about where Anton Lavey was going with this:

"The Devil has been attacked by the men of God relentlessly and without reservation. Never has there been an opportunity, short of fiction, for the Dark Prince to speak out in the same manner as the spokesmen of the Lord of the Righteous."

- Here you can clearly see that Anton LaVey seems to think of Satan as a living entity. He speaks of what appears to be the Christian "Devil", and this does not support the doctrines that Satan is the dark carnal force of nature, not a seperate living being. Quite strange...

He goes on:

"For all shouting down the Devil has recieved, he has never shouted back at his detractors.He has remained the gentleman of all times, while those he supports rant and rave. He has shown himself to be a model of deportment, but now he feels it is time to shout back. He has decided it is finally time to recieve his due."

Again, who is this "Devil" he speaks of?


At the end of the page, he says:
"The flames of Hell burn fierce... and purify!"


What is this 'Hell' he speaks of? Surely not the 'Hell' that Christians believe in?


Perhaps i'm missing something, but judging from this one would think that Anton Lavey did indeed worship the 'devil' and did not actually adhere to the doctrines and philosiphy of true Satanism. I'm not jumping to conclusions here, but could someone explain this to me? Why does he refer to Satan seemingly as a living deity?

P.S. don't be an *** about it, I'm merely looking for some answers.
 
guysmy

guysmy

New Member
You may be on to something but most likely you are taking LaVey too literally. When he says the "Dark Prince" was never allowed to speak out like the "Lord of the Righteous", he is likely saying: within the framework of judeo-christian theology Satan never got to tell his side of the story. Satan hasn't replied because the satanic way of thinking is repressed by the Christian majority. He never said Satan (or God) is real in his mind. Satan is used a symbol or archetype.
 
Dash

Dash

New Member
Mark JGS said:
I understand that the Satanic philosiphies of Anton Lavey suggest that modern Satanism isn't about Satanism and that the modern Satanist doesn't believe in Satan as a living entity...
Click to expand...
Not neccesarily, some beleive that Satan is a living entity. In other words, they beleive there is a god, just not the Christian one, and they find that Satan best represents their God.

Mark JGS said:
I have heard a few things about Anton Lavey, one of them being that he is a fraud. A fraud who actually DIDworship the 'devil' , and made up his philosiphies to draw people in, so that they would not think they are worshipping the 'devil' but indeed are... (I'm not claiming this, but I know some people have, so just thought I'd bring it up..)
Click to expand...
Though his church denies it, LaVey admitted that the church was a funnel for his own devices and interests, but that in no way discredits him.

Mark JGS said:
I wouldn't have believed this... but here's a little bit from the Satanic Bible that has me somewhat confused about where Anton Lavey was going with this:

"The Devil has been attacked by the men of God relentlessly and without reservation. Never has there been an opportunity, short of fiction, for the Dark Prince to speak out in the same manner as the spokesmen of the Lord of the Righteous."
Click to expand...
God is given voice constantly in the Bible, expressing his will. And today, people claim to be getting messages from God. This never is so with Satan. Thus LaVey felt that Satan was a voiceless victim.

Mark JGS said:
- Here you can clearly see that Anton LaVey seems to think of Satan as a living entity. He speaks of what appears to be the Christian "Devil", and this does not support the doctrines that Satan is the dark carnal force of nature, not a seperate living being. Quite strange...
Click to expand...
LaVey's Bible has a lot to do with the Christian Bible. He compared the two often and their texts often.
Mark JGS said:
"For all shouting down the Devil has recieved, he has never shouted back at his detractors.He has remained the gentleman of all times, while those he supports rant and rave. He has shown himself to be a model of deportment, but now he feels it is time to shout back. He has decided it is finally time to recieve his due."

Again, who is this "Devil" he speaks of?
Click to expand...
LaVey likely beleived (though I warn you, I've done no research on this in particular) that there was in fact a God. Like I said before, Satan embodies that God. Each religion has its own diety, its own name for him. Satanism's is, obviously, Satan.

Mark JGS said:
At the end of the page, he says:
"The flames of Hell burn fierce... and purify!"


What is this 'Hell' he speaks of? Surely not the 'Hell' that Christians believe in?
Click to expand...
It's more metaphorical than anything. He means the sins that Christians claim will consume you are actually the things that cleanse you in the end.

Mark JGS said:
Perhaps i'm missing something, but judging from this one would think that Anton Lavey did indeed worship the 'devil' and did not actually adhere to the doctrines and philosiphy of true Satanism. I'm not jumping to conclusions here, but could someone explain this to me? Why does he refer to Satan seemingly as a living deity?
Click to expand...
As I said, some Satanists do beleive in a God. I myself do beleive in a God of sorts, though it is not a Christian one.
 
IanAlmighty

IanAlmighty

Lurking Existentialist
Dash said:
As I said, some Satanists do beleive in a God. I myself do beleive in a God of sorts, though it is not a Christian one.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure.
God, as defined by most Satanists, is whatever is most important in your life. From this, the most suggested god to be chosen would be you.
Any form of omnipotent being is not a Satanic concept in nature, being that it would be considered an externilized ego (something truly unsatanic.)
The closest thing to an omnipotent god in modern Satanism would be the hidden, magical nature of the world which many label directly as "Satan."
 
V

Viconia

Member
In the Satanic Bible, LaVey writes:

To the Satanist, "God" - by whatever name he is called, or by no name at all- is seen as the balancing factor in nature, and not as being concerned with suffering. This powerful force which permeates and balances the universe is far too impersonal to care about the happiness or misery of flesh-and-blood creatures on this ball of dirt on which we live
Click to expand...
The Church of Satan's brand of Satanism uses those terms metaphorically.

Other religions say "God speaks through the heart, not reason". Satanism provides symbolism to stimulate emotions and motivate the Satanist to act. It is the union of religion and rationality.
 
Delilah Roo

Delilah Roo

Member
Something does sort of bother me about LaVey, something just seems a little off. I cant put my finger exactly what it is. I think much in that way, satan is sort of an analogy, right(?) I feel like he makes satanism into too much of an organized religion. But that is my opinion, I still think he is really interesting and look forward to learning alot more about him. --Delilah
 
Azakel

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Delilah Roo said:
Something does sort of bother me about LaVey, something just seems a little off. I cant put my finger exactly what it is. I think much in that way, satan is sort of an analogy, right(?) I feel like he makes satanism into too much of an organized religion. But that is my opinion, I still think he is really interesting and look forward to learning alot more about him. --Delilah
Click to expand...

If you haven't already I would say read the Satanic Bible, that's a good starting points. I wish the man was still alive today because there is something I would like to have asked him the, about some of the names of gods he uses and says are the Satan type figures of those religions, when the aren't really.
 
C

chicoine666

the Great Destroyer
Lavey used Satan as an Archetype that most Satanists strive to become, the carnal side of man. The whole point of the list of infernal names is to allow yourself to enter a controlled state of delusion so you can access mainly dormant sections of your brain that react to situations like strong belief or a hypnosis state. The Satanic Bible is not a long narrative detailing events that many people in today's world cannot relate to(like the Xian Bible) but is instead more like a collection of essays, or something similar to a manifesto for Lavey's branch of Satanism. I highly doubt he ever worshipped the devil because he founded the Church based on debauchery he saw daily while working in the carnival, then he saw those same people repenting their "sins" in church every Sunday, just to watch them return to their "less than orthodox" behavior during the week. Lavey felt human nature shouldn't be surpressed; by accepting another sentient being as having control over your life you are already denying that nature and creating opportunity for others to control you. Laveyan Satanism is actually Atheism in religion. Satanism should actually be considered a philosophy system.

If you look deeply into the text and read between the lines, the general gist of the atanic Bible is that everyone is different and will choose differing things to believe in, and that no one should surpress that. Satanism itself has no rules, though the Church of Satan does have rules for maintained membership.
 
WingsofLeather

WingsofLeather

Lord Egan
Let me quickly introduce myself. This is my first post to this forum. Formerly known as Lord Egan, I've been a public and media spokesperson for Satanism since 1971. I've written an insightful article about LaVey and his beliefs. I'll try to post it here:

Did Anton LaVey Actually Worship Satan?
Startling New Revelations by Rev. John D. Allee

To really comprehend the psyche of sixties pop icon, Anton LaVey, one must ask members of his immediate family and close friends that knew him intimately. People such as publicist Ed Webber, who gave LaVey the idea to start a Church of Satan, his daughter Zeena, Grand Secretary Dr. Michael Aquino, these people will most likely tell you that LaVey began his church with the belief in a literal Devil, a real Satan. It was absolutely basic and fundamental to all communications and interactions with him. Then, as he got older, Anton LaVey began to believe that Satan was less a supernatural force and more a manifestation of his own psyche. I believe this to be a natural progression and evolution.

When gathering evidence, you don't have to rely on second-hand explanations. Let's look at what Anton LaVey had to say in his own words:

"I'm in league with the Devil as much as any mortal can possibly be." - A. S. LaVey, Satanis, 1970 Documentary film

"The Devil was much more than that [an anthropomorphic deity]. Satan represented a dark, hidden force in nature that was responsible for the workings of earthly affairs for which science and religion had no explanation and no control." - Satanic Bible, pages 16-17 [note: "much more than that" literally means, that and much more!]

"In speaking directly to Satan himself, you may discover what is in your subconscious that you can't quite bring to the surface. Express appreciation for the direction you have received from the Dark Lord and ask that he continue to guide you to further increase your Earthly power -- you might want to write out part of your Dedication ahead of time, to spur your thoughts once you're in the chamber. Ask that He (sic) bestow ever-increasing wisdom and perspective so that you can carry out your Dark Will on the Earth. Instruct the demons you name to manifest themselves to you by increasing your earthly pleasures." - Church of Satan by Barton, quoting LaVey on page 109

Anton LaVey said one thing in public and then something quite different in private concerning his beliefs. Here is an excerpt from LaVey's Grotto Master's Handbook that was circulated exclusively to members of his Priesthood back in 1990 while he was still alive. The last edition of the Handbook mysteriously excluded this passage to avoid embarassment:

[begin quote]

Satanists are strange creatures. We know that the idea of an omniscient, all-powerful god who watches over each of us and listens to each of our prayers is an irrationality and a deep offense to any advanced mind. We see no evidence of justice or answered prayers in the world around us. If the Judeo-Christian "God" is all- powerful, all-knowing, he's damned churlish and incompetent.

But the Satanist is also faced with his subjective experience of what we choose to characterize as "Satan" in our lives. Satan is a very personal Companion. We admire Satan and wish to gain his respect, therefore we act as he would - in defiance of anything or anyone who would demand our worship. It would be an insult to offer him unthinking worship. But this is fact: Unlike the promises of the Christians, Satan does develop an intensely intimate relationship with each of his followers. You may not perceive it until you train yourself to sense it, but since you have achieved the position of Grotto Master, You have probably already been touched by it. He will remain with you until your breath leaves your body.

[end quote]

LaVey could be "theist" or "non-theist," depending on his audience and the social climate. The truth of the matter is, he didn't care what Satanists believed, as long as they were free and independent thinkers! To repeat what Anton LaVey wrote, "Unthinking worship" of anyone or anything outside yourself is out of the question.

God and Satan come from the same place: the "god factory" inside your head. Because we "think" them, they are real. If you want to believe that God is loving and Satan is the bad guy, then that will become your personal reality, and it will affect your every day life.

Friedrich Nietzsche criticized religion saying, "The Christian resolution to see the world as ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad." In other words, we create our own reality and when we do, we impact one another's reality which affects the world around us.

Atheists, sad to say, take a black and white approach. You either believe in the existence of a deity, be it Jehovah, Allah, Vishnu or Ganesha, in which case you're delusional or, you believe in the existence of scientific things you can't see, like photons, atoms and molecules, in which case you are considered sane. Just because a person believes in the existence of a form or deity does not necessarily mean the relationship with said form or deity is delusional, fraudulent, deceptive or useless.

As the God of your own personal universe called your "mind," you are entitled to think or believe or fantasize whatever you want. If you envision Satan as an idea, force or form or intelligence, that is your decision. Your perceptions are your own. I cannot make that decision for you, nor can anyone else for that matter.

Satanism has nothing to do with dogma or belief systems fighting against one another. It has to do with you and your beliefs are the ones that count!

So, to answer your question, "Did Anton LaVey worship the Devil?" The answer would be, "No." But did he believe in a very real entity, given birth to by our collective thoughts and ideas, lurking around inside our subconscious, representing our shadow side? I'll leave the answer to that question with you.

Yours On Wings of Leather,
John D. Allee
Allee Shadow Tradition
 
Jeffery

Jeffery

Member
LaVey was not a fraud. I won't go into grave detail as to why, because if this is your opinion LaVey would probably let you think that, if he were still alive. There's a lot of tongue-in-cheek humor/sarcasm within the Satanic Bible. There's absolutley nothing to do with devil-worship in LaVeyan Satanism.
 
P

PoorlyCommunicated

New Member
:no: I think there is some confusion about the "Black Mass". It's hard to tell at what point the mockery of Catholicism ends and the "Hail Satan!" begins :~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top