• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Any experience with Hate groups?

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I think you meant exploitation not exploration.
Depending upon your point of view about prostitutes.
I suppose one could explore a prostitute but it's not recommended. :p:p
When I was a police officer (detective) I made friends with prostitutes.
It's a good idea to be on the friendly side of them as they can save ones bacon.
And some did save my bacon.
Never partook of the fruits of their labors however.:eek::eek:
You remind me of the police I wish I saw more of. Like the one who helped push my car out of the snow, or one I saw helping a driver in the pouring rain, or the few others I could tell are there to help - not like the ones I've ran into that exist to intimidate and abuse.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
You remind me of the police I wish I saw more of. Like the one who helped push my car out of the snow, or one I saw helping a driver in the pouring rain, or the few others I could tell are there to help - not like the ones I've ran into that exist to intimidate and abuse.

Dear lord I KNOW that type and there are way too many of the A-- holes.
These are the pukes that can't make it in any other profession or environment because
they simply MUST have the way and means to demean others.
I disliked those types deeply. The ones I knew would cruise and troll looking for kids
driving a little badly, squealing tires and such and find a reason to write a ticket
and TOW THE CAR!!!
Doing such creates extreme hardship as the driver must pay the fines then the
tow bill and impound charges. This can run a ticket up from a hundred or more bucks
to double that for impound and tow charges.
This infuriates the kids and the parents who must foot the bill to get the
car out of impound.
Idiot cops make police work so difficult for cops that remember they are HUMANS
FIRST.
I never looked down on a prostitute, never was judgmental.
Hell I even would some times give them grocery money for baby food!
I never partook of the "fruits" but they did care deeply for me and would
stand up for me if I were in jeopardy in the mean streets.
I've had by butt saved more than once by a good word from these "professional"
ladies.
Same-o in the black community. I never let race influence my judgement.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I didn't know where to put this. Some might say it should be in political, others might say philosophical. But the point is have you had any experience with hate groups. I have not. I live in Longwood and I checked and one is in this city. One classified as 'General' Hate...makes me feel worse to be honest. There are some in Orlando which isn't far from Longwood. That don't make me feel good either. Since I have no experience with them all I can do is watch their youtube videos. But one thing, among others, I would like to find out is the lower level members: Are they dedicated, confused, bored? Why to they latch on to something? I feel that it's more towards being confused and bored, maybe even they choose that path as some sort of revenge or a need to rebel.

The general consensus of literature on the psychology of "extremism", is there is no "one" character or personality type who gets involved.

I'm obviously not very comfortable with it but the label "extremist" does apply to me to some extent, if only because of where my sympathies lie well outside the mainstream. I was in the Communist Party very breifly but actually is was at the very very end of my interest in communism when I was already begining to suspect there was a problem with it. I joined because I knew I'd regret not doing it if I didn't. it was one of those mistakes that is simply too big not to make and was going to be life-changing whatever it was. the impression I got of them isn't really deatiled but they did not come accross as the kind of "dedicated" people I wanted to be around. it felt half-hearted, ametuer and potentially rather dogmatic.

Right at the begining, I had alot of personal problems and the onset of depression made me very vulnerable. I had an intrest in Communism stemming back several years but it was sort of an "attraction" rather than anything deeper. But, at that point of human vulnerability when my life seemed to be falling apart, I was really susceptable to the need for some "over-arching" framework that would make sense out of life. It was like "finding religion" and the only reason I didn't become religious at that point was for philosophical reasons (i.e. being a materialist). I felt "safe" as now I had a system which could provide me an answer for everything. the ideal I wanted to live up to was the "dedicated" type but "confusion" and "boredom" played a role as well. its hard to describe how fulfilling that sense of "dedication" is and what it means to have some sense of meaning, purpose and drive in life- particuarly when nothing else seems to "do it". its still an ideal I aspire to but whilst accepting that a certian level of selfishness is healthy and balanced. overall, mental illness plus an "extremist" political ideology was not a good mix and my first two years with an indepth interest in it, I was essentally at "war" with my parents because of how robbed I felt about being denied a fulfilling/happy life. This is the point where you could legitimately call it "hate". What I didn't realise was I was bisexual, sexually repressed and frustrated and that fed into it. my parents were psychologically abusive in many ways so being "angry" was overall more healthy than keeping it in. there was a legitimate reason for me to feel that angry even if I wasn't conscious of it but developing the self-respect ot accpet that took time. As I started to read up on marxist inspired psychologists (Erich Fromm/Wilhelm Reich being my favorites) I become more open and accepting of my sexuality and more intrested in ethics, my "fanatical" phase passed. [Eric Hoffers Book "The True Believer" is a conservative angle which is extremely insightful into fanatcism, but doesn't offer an explanation as to why people go through it beyond vague references to "frustration".]

I started to question communism much more deeply and seriously think about the "ethical" problems of violence and look deeper into the ideology to see what it said on those subjects. the answer was "very little" to the point where "nothing" would be accurate because of how heavily the ideology was driven by expediency. they never really treated "ethics" as a distinct discipline as what was ethical was whatever was necessary to wage the "class struggle" against the "enemies of the people". this is when my "beliefs" started to unravel. Any justification I may have had for it simply fell apart it took a considerable emotional and psychological toll because of how disturbing it all was (and it has only really settled down within the past month or so). there were several times when I tried very consciously and deliberately to walk away from it, trying to find beliefs that could fill the "void". I looked into Ayn Rands Objectivism, Anarcho-Capitalism, read the Road to Serfdom and Freidman's Capitalism and Freedom as possible alternatives. They didn't really stand up to examination but were incredably useful to think over things and see the world a different way. I did read The Doctorine of Fascism and got a copy of the Hitler Youth handbook to see what the similarites were between Communism and the far-right (the answer is there are fairly superfical similarities but they both have a strong conviction in the necessity of political violence). the reason I reverted back to "Marxism-Leninism" recently was because, after trying to change, I realised it was a form of self-harm so I had to find some level of "acceptence" that this is who I am. I am still very much a product of this experience and it will take years for me to know where I go after this. So the label will stick for quite a long time, as I still accept the basic premises of the philosophy even if my reaction to the politics is being appauled by it's cruelty. But there is a tacit admission that for the entirity of the whole time, I never really understood what Communism was, nor really respected what it meant to people who lived through it (both for the perpetrators and the victims). there was always some level of "denial" that came from being repressed and unable to be emotionally open about why I "enjoyed" it in a perverse kind of way.

I have been on Revleft.com which is the forum for the far left. I did look up polls to figure out what the membership was like. something like 80/90% were under 35. about 60/50% were atheist. 30% were gay or bisexual. very few voted, very few were members of a political party. because of that age group, there was a very large proportion of people who had a history of depression or still had it (myself included). there were also a fair number of people who had other mental disorders but they were all very low-level and common disorder not the "big" ones that suggested something really wrong. I left because of the second sucicide attempt and was left pretty sure there would be more. the atmosphere wasn't very healthy and troll-like, but I do miss it occassionally as being on the margins of mainstream opinion is very lonely and isolating. I am still happier and even healthier this way, but there are costs to it. so I wouldn't reccommend it to anyone. if anything, I'd be the one trying to talk people out of being communist now.
 

Kori

Dark Valkyrie...what's not to love?
@Laika For a short time I was newspaper distributor for the Revolutionary Communist Party (Maoist) but I guess my real views, Democratic Socialism and Titoism are something like Luxemburgism roughly. I do like Lenin but he made some avoidable mistakes. My Religious and political are not extreme. My Pro-women views are though. I mentioned this before but at the very most I can only tolerate men, getting along and chit chatting and so on, but I really hate being this species. Why? Because testosterone is the worst drug on the planet. I guess because I am so bizarre on this issue, as well as others, that's why I didn't fall into some extremist group. If I had I do not see it ending well.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@Laika For a short time I was newspaper distributor for the Revolutionary Communist Party (Maoist) but I guess my real views, Democratic Socialism and Titoism are something like Luxemburgism roughly. I do like Lenin but he made some avoidable mistakes. My Religious and political are not extreme. My Pro-women views are though. I mentioned this before but at the very most I can only tolerate men, getting along and chit chatting and so on, but I really hate being this species. Why? Because testosterone is the worst drug on the planet. I guess because I am so bizarre on this issue, as well as others, that's why I didn't fall into some extremist group. If I had I do not see it ending well.

ah, a fellow traveller. I did wonder. :D

Thinking that testostorne makes men intrinsically patriarchial (I think that might be how you put it) sounds more like sociobiology and so is not a great fit with Marxism-Leninism (and it's later Maoist derivatative). Though intrestingly, biological determinism does overlap to some extent. The Soviets offical understanding of psychology was based on Ivan pavlov's work on "classical conditioning" (i.e. his work with dogs, assuming the humans are animals and therefore our psychology obeys the same natural laws).
Marxism-Leninism is a worldview built on Dialectical Materialist philosophy. So there are a very limited number of perscriptions as to what is the "ideologically correct" position, yet at the same time the "dialectics" makes it incredably diverse in the number of ways you can use it. Orwell satirised it as "DoubleThink" in 1984, and he's not wrong. it really does work that way. 2+2=5 if the Party says so.

The hard truth is, is that "extremism" is not intrinsically wrong (and the way the term is used does imply the state's monopoly of violence is somehow natural or just whilst being conspiciously abscent from discussion of violence). But it obviously is very dark and disturbing as it tests the outer limits of what is acceptable on a human/emotional level whatever reason or ideology is used.

Although it's easier said than done, don't blame yourself for being attrached to it. I'm going to assume there is a reason why you have such strong pro-women views although I won't ask, and feeling vulnerable can mean we get attrached to things that make us feel "empowered" and therefore (relatively) safer. Of course, it's an illusion and letting go of that is very hard. Sado-masochism is the old "freudian" way of describing it so the taboo on discussing it reflects a level of psychological repression that it is somehow wrong to feel hurt or angry or challange the authority that hurt us.
 

Kori

Dark Valkyrie...what's not to love?
@Laika My pro-women views is just how much I realize woman have and continue to suffer, with sex slavery in particular. I have so much empathy in me it's a bad thing. Somehow I am capable of feeling others pain much more than most people. However I do have rather dark thoughts, keyword thoughts, on what I would like to do to a pimp if he was at my mercy. I think I said this before but I am so compassionate I crossover into the realm of cruelty. Is that doublethink? I guess it's more like I have compassion for good people, and cruelty in me for those who wish to do them harm. But keep in mind I have never planned or prepared for any vigilante style of justice. They are just thoughts.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@Laika My pro-women views is just how much I realize woman have and continue to suffer, with sex slavery in particular. I have so much empathy in me it's a bad thing. Somehow I am capable of feeling others pain much more than most people. However I do have rather dark thoughts, keyword thoughts, on what I would like to do to a pimp if he was at my mercy. I think I said this before but I am so compassionate I crossover into the realm of cruelty. Is that doublethink? I guess it's more like I have compassion for good people, and cruelty in me for those who wish to do them harm.

yeah. that's double think. Is it not for the "greater good" that you want the "enemies of the people" suffer? are we not the ebmodiment of justice that we cannot inflict injustice on others? ;)

What I learned the hard way is that infact there is very little we can do as individuals. So, our compassion should only be a reflection of what we can actually do. asking ourselves to change the world is being too hard on ourselves and can feel like we are at fault for letting it happen. Being emapathetic is a good thing but only in so far as we have the power to act on it or need to accept and express our own pain. I was really reluctant to learn it but we can't play god and cannot expect ourselves to achieve a state of "omnibenevloence". being a materialist at least gives us the excuse that we can be selfish and hedonistic at times. its better to give yourself permission to have fun occassionally than to obsess over the dark stuff (as easy at that is).

But keep in mind I have never planned or prepared for any vigilante style of justice. They are just thoughts.

That's fine. I've had the same thing with compulsive thoughts of violence, sucicide etc. it is really unpleasant and was part of my mental problems. it comes back occassionally but has largely passed. of course, it still makes me uneasy that it is/was there.
 

Baladas

An Págánach
Thankfully, I have very little experience with hate groups.
I did meet a racist dude years ago who was bragging about how his dad was KKK and that he had an engraved gun, and wanted to shoot black people.

This angered me to the point that I told him I would like to shoot up the KKK.
It wasn't really true, as I am mainly non-violent, but he shocked me with his insane statements.
I have always despised hate groups and wish that more could be done to deal with them.
 

Jedster

Flying through space
I didn't know where to put this. Some might say it should be in political, others might say philosophical. But the point is have you had any experience with hate groups. I have not. I live in Longwood and I checked and one is in this city. One classified as 'General' Hate...makes me feel worse to be honest. There are some in Orlando which isn't far from Longwood. That don't make me feel good either. Since I have no experience with them all I can do is watch their youtube videos. But one thing, among others, I would like to find out is the lower level members: Are they dedicated, confused, bored? Why to they latch on to something? I feel that it's more towards being confused and bored, maybe even they choose that path as some sort of revenge or a need to rebel.
Lots of experience when growing up in a Jewish community. Police did not help in those days(1950s) so we formed our own protection.
 

Baladas

An Págánach
The general consensus of literature on the psychology of "extremism", is there is no "one" character or personality type who gets involved.

I'm obviously not very comfortable with it but the label "extremist" does apply to me to some extent, if only because of where my sympathies lie well outside the mainstream. I was in the Communist Party very breifly but actually is was at the very very end of my interest in communism when I was already begining to suspect there was a problem with it. I joined because I knew I'd regret not doing it if I didn't. it was one of those mistakes that is simply too big not to make and was going to be life-changing whatever it was. the impression I got of them isn't really deatiled but they did not come accross as the kind of "dedicated" people I wanted to be around. it felt half-hearted, ametuer and potentially rather dogmatic.

Right at the begining, I had alot of personal problems and the onset of depression made me very vulnerable. I had an intrest in Communism stemming back several years but it was sort of an "attraction" rather than anything deeper. But, at that point of human vulnerability when my life seemed to be falling apart, I was really susceptable to the need for some "over-arching" framework that would make sense out of life. It was like "finding religion" and the only reason I didn't become religious at that point was for philosophical reasons (i.e. being a materialist). I felt "safe" as now I had a system which could provide me an answer for everything. the ideal I wanted to live up to was the "dedicated" type but "confusion" and "boredom" played a role as well. its hard to describe how fulfilling that sense of "dedication" is and what it means to have some sense of meaning, purpose and drive in life- particuarly when nothing else seems to "do it". its still an ideal I aspire to but whilst accepting that a certian level of selfishness is healthy and balanced. overall, mental illness plus an "extremist" political ideology was not a good mix and my first two years with an indepth interest in it, I was essentally at "war" with my parents because of how robbed I felt about being denied a fulfilling/happy life. This is the point where you could legitimately call it "hate". What I didn't realise was I was bisexual, sexually repressed and frustrated and that fed into it. my parents were psychologically abusive in many ways so being "angry" was overall more healthy than keeping it in. there was a legitimate reason for me to feel that angry even if I wasn't conscious of it but developing the self-respect ot accpet that took time. As I started to read up on marxist inspired psychologists (Erich Fromm/Wilhelm Reich being my favorites) I become more open and accepting of my sexuality and more intrested in ethics, my "fanatical" phase passed. [Eric Hoffers Book "The True Believer" is a conservative angle which is extremely insightful into fanatcism, but doesn't offer an explanation as to why people go through it beyond vague references to "frustration".]

I started to question communism much more deeply and seriously think about the "ethical" problems of violence and look deeper into the ideology to see what it said on those subjects. the answer was "very little" to the point where "nothing" would be accurate because of how heavily the ideology was driven by expediency. they never really treated "ethics" as a distinct discipline as what was ethical was whatever was necessary to wage the "class struggle" against the "enemies of the people". this is when my "beliefs" started to unravel. Any justification I may have had for it simply fell apart it took a considerable emotional and psychological toll because of how disturbing it all was (and it has only really settled down within the past month or so). there were several times when I tried very consciously and deliberately to walk away from it, trying to find beliefs that could fill the "void". I looked into Ayn Rands Objectivism, Anarcho-Capitalism, read the Road to Serfdom and Freidman's Capitalism and Freedom as possible alternatives. They didn't really stand up to examination but were incredably useful to think over things and see the world a different way. I did read The Doctorine of Fascism and got a copy of the Hitler Youth handbook to see what the similarites were between Communism and the far-right (the answer is there are fairly superfical similarities but they both have a strong conviction in the necessity of political violence). the reason I reverted back to "Marxism-Leninism" recently was because, after trying to change, I realised it was a form of self-harm so I had to find some level of "acceptence" that this is who I am. I am still very much a product of this experience and it will take years for me to know where I go after this. So the label will stick for quite a long time, as I still accept the basic premises of the philosophy even if my reaction to the politics is being appauled by it's cruelty. But there is a tacit admission that for the entirity of the whole time, I never really understood what Communism was, nor really respected what it meant to people who lived through it (both for the perpetrators and the victims). there was always some level of "denial" that came from being repressed and unable to be emotionally open about why I "enjoyed" it in a perverse kind of way.

I have been on Revleft.com which is the forum for the far left. I did look up polls to figure out what the membership was like. something like 80/90% were under 35. about 60/50% were atheist. 30% were gay or bisexual. very few voted, very few were members of a political party. because of that age group, there was a very large proportion of people who had a history of depression or still had it (myself included). there were also a fair number of people who had other mental disorders but they were all very low-level and common disorder not the "big" ones that suggested something really wrong. I left because of the second sucicide attempt and was left pretty sure there would be more. the atmosphere wasn't very healthy and troll-like, but I do miss it occassionally as being on the margins of mainstream opinion is very lonely and isolating. I am still happier and even healthier this way, but there are costs to it. so I wouldn't reccommend it to anyone. if anything, I'd be the one trying to talk people out of being communist now.

I had wondered about your "religious" status reverting back. I'm glad you are doing better.
I hope you can find a sense of inner peace, my friend.

I'm still feeling out exactly where I stand politically, but I really appreciate the time you took to talk with me about Communism.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I had wondered about your "religious" status reverting back. I'm glad you are doing better.
I hope you can find a sense of inner peace, my friend.

I'm still feeling out exactly where I stand politically, but I really appreciate the time you took to talk with me about Communism.

you're very welcome. I just wanted to save you from having to go through "the gates of hell" as I did for lack of another metaphor. I have started to accept that I am who I am, and I'm a lot happier and more at peace for it. I'm in too deep into the marxist philosophy to do a u-turn but I had to give it a try just to find out if there was an easy way to get away from it. objectivism was a useful thing to look into as being "selfish" is actually a good thing (and made me a bit happier). self-denial is more religious than marxist so oddly there were some minor points of agreement. there was a level of denial in it as well which was not a good thing, so I'm just going to learn to live with the "dysfunction" of being a marxist-leninist. If I know that it's just for me and not "right" for anyone else, nor that I could make anyone else accept it, there is very little damage I can do with it. I think that is the best I can wish for.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think you meant exploitation not exploration.
Depending upon your point of view about prostitutes.
I suppose one could explore a prostitute but it's not recommended. :p:p
When I was a police officer (detective) I made friends with prostitutes.
It's a good idea to be on the friendly side of them as they can save ones bacon.
And some did save my bacon.
Never partook of the fruits of their labors however.:eek::eek:
No shared bacon?
 
Top