Any non-theists have this state of mind on theists?

[Apex]

I stumbled upon these couple of posts on a facebook group for Purdue Non-Theists. I was extremely surprised, and frankly disgusted, by the attitude of two of the atheists in the group. They were responding to another post which I strongly agreed with. A quick synopsis on what is being discussed: They are talking about political candidates and their religious affiliations.

Here is the post that I agreed with and thought it was very well done.

If an individual has put genuine thought into their religious position, and carries out the office effectively, without trampling on the rights of differing opinions--it doesn't bother me if they happen to have their own personal convictions. Respect for these convictions should be mutual, and I worry that non-theists like myself expect respect from theists, but don't fully honor it in return. Regardless of how informed, ignorant, repulsive, or honorable we feel their viewpoints are--we (and I'm not speaking purely in the political realm) ought to show restraint as long as the execution of their convictions does not undermine our rights as humans and citizens exercising our right to have freedom from religion.

Here are the two responses to the post above.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree on that one, [Poster A]. Respect isn't something I can just give to someone. Respect for the laws in place that give them the right to believe as they wish, yes. I'm not trying to take away anyone's ability to have faith. But respect for the person who holds them, no. If I think someone is irrational, deluded, or just downright stupid, I cannot force myself to see them as an equal.

I'm going have to agree with [Response B]. I would never try to change the laws to try to discriminate against theists or anything like that. They have the right to believe whatever they want, and they shouldn't be punished or treated like second class citizens. However, that is different from respect. Someone who holds such nonsensical and irrational views does not earn my respect. The only respect I can give theists if they're at least polite enough to not force their views on others. Unfortunately, a large percentage of them DO force their views onto others, whether it be passively or by actively trying to pass religious laws that affect everyone.

How I interpret these two responses is the very second Response B and C discover someone believes in a higher power, they can no longer respect that person regardless of their specific beliefs or any other characteristics of who that person is. For clarification, from reading other posts in this group I have gathered that the bolded in Response C refers to any/every type of Christianity.


Do other Atheists/Non-theists hold the same frame of mind as Responses B and C? What do you think about their ideas?

 

[Willamena]

How I interpret these two responses is the very second Response B and C discover someone believes in a higher power, they can no longer respect that person regardless of their specific beliefs or any other characteristics of who that person is. For clarification, from reading other posts in this group I have gathered that the bolded in Response C refers to any/every type of Christianity.

I think you're over-reacting a bit. The responders were not making holding religious views a condition of their respect, but rather discussing it as a factor. I'm quite sure that their respect can be earned by more than one variable.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

They express an attitude typical of insecure zealots who don't know what they don't know.

 

[Panda]

I would agree with the two responses given. If I do think someone is deluded or crazy or whatever then of course they won't have my respect. However I do not feel all theists fall into this category, only a small minority do.
I am of the opinion that the majority of the time if I think someones religious beliefs are deluded then I don't understand the person well enough to accurately judge them as deluded.

 

[Papersock]

I kind of agree with all three of them.

 

[Buttercup]

The only circumstance that causes me to lose respect for a theist is when they try to impose their brand of religious ethics on the rest of the world. Other than that, being a former theist myself I understand the benefits derived from belief in God.

 

[Ceridwen018]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that I don't respect theists on account of because they are theists. (Although, if you wanted to put yourself in their shoes, imagine you met someone, and in the course of your conversation learned that they believed in leprechauns and went to leprechaun services every Sunday and prayed to the leprechauns on a daily basis. Perhaps you would feel more sorry for that person than you would feel that they were stupid. Neither are flattering.) I would have to say, however, that I draw my tolerance line at creationism. I have no tolerance for creationists and have no desire to spare their feelings. I just feel that in this day and age, with such easy access to information, there is no excuse for such a complete suspension of reality. Maybe that's wrong of me, but its how I feel.

 

[Apex]

I think you're over-reacting a bit. The responders were not making holding religious views a condition of their respect, but rather discussing it as a factor. I'm quite sure that their respect can be earned by more than one variable.

It is possible that Im over reacting. However I doubt that is the case in this instance. If I were to only read the two responses individually in isolation, I would have no problem with them. Its when I see what they are responding to and saying what they disagree with that I arrive at the interpretation I did.

 

[Fluffy]

No I would not agree with B or C. However, I do not respect theists because they are theists nor beliefs because they are religious.

 

[Apex]

However, I do not respect theists because they are theists nor beliefs because they are religious.

Could you elaborate on this a bit more, I am having trouble understanding what you are saying.

 

[Fluffy]

Heya Apex,
If I respect a person it is because they have earned my respect. If I respect a belief, it is because I believe it is worthy of that respect.

I don't think that being a theist is an attribute that causes a person to be worthy of respect but nor do I think it is the opposite either. The same goes for religious belief.

Something that will affect the respect I have for a person is the degree to which they have an open and curious mind.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I respect the right to believe in religion. I empathize somewhat with religious people because I know how easy it is to fall under the spell. It's really quite normal to believe in some sort of religion. It may not even occur to some people to question it, and when they do the religious leaders usually have some scripturally based answer ready, even if it's just "God works in mysterious ways". I don't go around ridiculing or disrespecting them, but when asked I will share my beliefs in a matter of fact way. I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to think on the same level as many of us here on RF. The level of logic and reasoning and education in this forum is way higher than what I have to deal with in person here in Delaware. Most people I know couldn't name a logical fallacy or explain what falsifyable means. They've never heard of Pascal's wager or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They've never read any book on Evolution and only know parts of the Bible. Many of the debates here can get very complicated. I was pretty much in the same boat for the first thirty years of my life. I know we all have a responsibility to be intelligent, but intelligence is relative and there are different types of intelligence.

I do tech support for a living and I can't expect customers to know and understand how their computer works or have the critical thinking skills that I have developed over the years. They may be delusional to think that the more they click on an icon the faster the program will launch. Some of them may be willfully ignorant (and not even know how to right click), but it's usually because they are so intimidated by technology and it's complexity. Treating them with derision and disrespect is not going to create the curiosity and desire they need to investigate and learn on their own.

There are many brilliant Atheists, but most of us don't have a clue how to deal with religious people or promote our way of thinking.

 

[lamplighter]

I also find it ineffective in debate or discussion to immediately dismiss the other persons view point as unintelligible dribble, something some secularist have a problem doing which is self defeating (like "atheists" B & C). Because some religious people have had there beliefs so ingrained that being an atheist would be like running a country without some form government. Not to mention it's a sin to reject the dogma of some religions, so that's something that many people have to let go of and often times can't, being faced with such an agonizing decision with neither having definite answers to the question being asked "What happens after death?" (this may or may not be everyone's question but the one most "theists" seem to be concerned with), though both sides say they have the answer but do to a lack of evidence have very little to support there claims (or do to the lack of evidence believe the absence is evidence). I think this is something many atheists I know forget because they basically no longer have any interest in that question or think of it irrelevant and disregard it without any thought as to how important it is to the theist at hand. Now I'm not trying to blame the secularists, there are some who seem to refuse that this world is all there may possibly be to this life and seem to use there religion as a security blanket and will reject any idea that forces them to think about there theological position (because according this or that chapter there religion is supposed to be unquestionable).

 

[Kidblop]

i look at thiests much like I look at someone who believes in unicorns. I guess that means I agree with B and C. Is it wrong to be rude towards someone who is disillusioned to the extent they believe god farted and that's how everything came to be? i think all the theists i know would say yes. the thing is, i find the very notion of god just as dumb. i can respect people, but i sometimes do laugh when people tell me they believe in god...

 

[Smoke]

I don't have a one-size-fits-all attitude toward all theists or even toward all theistic religions. However, I definitely don't believe that all opinions, however half-assed, are worthy of respect. I reserve the right to respect (or disrespect) individuals and their opinions on a case-by-case basis.

EDIT AFTER READING ABOVE POSTS: It would be stupid of me if I automatically judged people for being theists. After all, I've been a theist myself. However, there are certain positions both theological and political that I do think merit disrespect in every case, for the position, if not necessarily for the person who holds it.

 

[Apex]

i look at thiests much like I look at someone who believes in unicorns. I guess that means I agree with B and C. Is it wrong to be rude towards someone who is disillusioned to the extent they believe god farted and that's how everything came to be? i think all the theists i know would say yes. the thing is, i find the very notion of god just as dumb. i can respect people, but i sometimes do laugh when people tell me they believe in god...

Do then have no problem with people who immediately lose all respect for someone the second they discover the person is a non-theist? Basically your attitude only in reverse.

 

[Apex]

I don't have a one-size-fits-all attitude toward all theists or even toward all theistic religions. However, I definitely don't believe that all opinions, however half-assed, are worthy of respect. I reserve the right to respect (or disrespect) individuals and their opinions on a case-by-case basis.

A EDIT AFTER READING ABOVE POSTS: It would be stupid of me if I automatically judged people for being theists. fter all, I've been a theist myself. However, there are certain positions both theological and political that I do think merit disrespect in every case, for the position, if not necessarily for the person who holds it.

The bolded above is exactly what the point I wanted to get at with this thread.

 

[Panda]

I agree with MidnightBlue. It is stupid to automatically lose respect for someone on the sole fact they are a theist. However if I think your beliefs are crazy or stupid then I would not respect their beliefs, they do still deserve the same basic respect that all humans should give each other though.

 

[lamplighter]

Well I think the number of reasons why a person would consider themself theist vary as widely as the different theologies. In some cases I would go as far to say it boils down to life or death even, I don't think anyone could go around Afghanistan or some other dirt lot like that and call themselves atheist without getting killed over it at some point. So with that in mind to think less of someone over the sole reason because they're a theist seems unreasonable, now when they start pushing their ideas on everyone else.....

Besides, theology seems to be a matter of semantics anyway.

 

[Kidblop]

Do then have no problem with people who immediately lose all respect for someone the second they discover the person is a non-theist? Basically your attitude only in reverse.

hey, if they make fun of people who don't believe in unicorns, all power to them. since they automatically assume something exists that can't be proven then that opens the door for everything else.