Any spiritual purpose in suffering?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

This is my final topic revolving around the concept of suffering. It is regarding some important questions. First off, do you think that we are here in this life of suffering for a reason? I personally see no reason because there are plenty of people who have their lives destroyed by it.

Some people can never have their lives worth living ever again no matter what methods they try. They have to resort to assisted suicide since there is no way to get their lives back to them. Some would say that suicide is the wrong thing to do and that there is a reason why we are here in this life of suffering. But as for those types of people who have to resort to assisted suicide, what about them?

Wouldn't it be the right thing for them to end their lives? Furthermore, why would they go to a miserable afterlife for doing what had to be done? I see no reason for us to be here in this life of suffering. If there were a good reason, then everyone's life would become more meaningful and worth living through all of that suffering.

That would tell me that suffering does serve a good purpose in this life. But since there are those types of people I've mentioned who have their lives destroyed and have to resort to assisted suicide, then I personally see no reason to be in this life of suffering. I think this supports the materialistic view of reality more than the spiritualist view.

If there was some spiritual purpose for all the suffering in this world, then there would be no people having to resort to assisted suicide. Everyone's life would be more meaningful and more worth living through all of that suffering.

Lastly, there are people who are born into this world, suffer a horrible disease, and die shortly within a few days or months upon being born. So what was the purpose of that? Does being here in a life of suffering rather than up there in heaven where it is blissful really serve a purpose? Because I don't see any point to all of this suffering.

 

[Aštra’el]

You should contemplate why one would program a machine or a robot with the ability to experience pain and suffering.

 

[Valjean]

Personally, I'm skeptical.

 

[buddhist]

In Buddhism, the purpose of suffering is to prompt us to work towards transcending suffering.

Literally everything in this world/samsara is a form of suffering. I eat, because if I get too hungry, I suffer. I stop eating, because if I over eat, I suffer. I sleep, because staying awake too long is suffering. I get out of bed, because staying in bed too long is suffering. Etc. Everything is a lesson in suffering, and the goal of the game is to realize the nature of that suffering, and to transcend it.

 

[YmirGF]

Lastly, there are people who are born into this world, suffer a horrible disease, and die shortly within a few days or months upon being born. So what was the purpose of that? Does being here in a life of suffering rather than up there in heaven where it is blissful really serve a purpose? Because I don't see any point to all of this suffering.

One thing people don't tend to appreciate is that one can still suffer even while one is experiencing bliss, though the internal sense of well being will help to mitigate the temporary suffering. One tends to look on the bright side of life as they understand that attitude is a key factor in adaptation.

 

[YmirGF]

In Buddhism, the purpose of suffering is to prompt us to work towards transcending suffering.

I understand and in the long run, we agree, but I'd much rather try to help people understand the causes of their suffering and how they can change their lives - for the better. The idea being that if the cause of suffering is understood then the mitigation of the suffering will happen much faster.

 

[buddhist]

I understand and in the long run, we agree, but I'd much rather try to help people understand the causes of their suffering and how they can change their lives - for the better. The idea being that if the cause of suffering is understood then the mitigation of the suffering will happen much faster.

I agree - address suffering itself, instead of treating the symptoms of suffering.

Perhaps there is a cosmic video game happening at this moment, and we're avatars on a particular level in the game, and the goal is to conquer suffering - the "big boss" on this level - in order to move to the next level

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

In Buddhism, the purpose of suffering is to prompt us to work towards transcending suffering.

Literally everything in this world/samsara is a form of suffering. I eat, because if I get too hungry, I suffer. I stop eating, because if I over eat, I suffer. I sleep, because staying awake too long is suffering. I get out of bed, because staying in bed too long is suffering. Etc. Everything is a lesson in suffering, and the goal of the game is to realize the nature of that suffering, and to transcend it.

But if there is a heaven that is free of suffering and I was born up there where I can be happy for all eternity, then I would have already transcended suffering. I wouldn't have to go through any of it. Therefore, since transcending suffering is what is important here, then being here on Earth where there is much suffering is pointless.

 

[Tumah]

This is my final topic revolving around the concept of suffering. It is regarding some important questions. First off, do you think that we are here in this life of suffering for a reason? I personally see no reason because there are plenty of people who have their lives destroyed by it.

Yes.

Some people can never have their lives worth living ever again no matter what methods they try. They have to resort to assisted suicide since there is no way to get their lives back to them. Some would say that suicide is the wrong thing to do and that there is a reason why we are here in this life of suffering. But as for those types of people who have to resort to assisted suicide, what about them?

First you say, that some people say suicide is wrong and there is a reason why we are here. And right after that you ask what about the people who have to resort to suicide. It looks like you answered your question before you asked it.

Wouldn't it be the right thing for them to end their lives?

I'm not sure how that would make it the "right" thing. The easier thing, maybe. But I'm not sure how you came to "right".

Furthermore, why would they go to a miserable afterlife for doing what had to be done? I see no reason for us to be here in this life of suffering. If there were a good reason, then everyone's life would become more meaningful and worth living through all of that suffering.

In Judaism, if I recall correctly, the stricter prohibition against suicide generally relates to kamikaze or seppuku type suicide. Suicide out of mental instability is a much lighter prohibition (evidenced by the former not being allowed to have Jewish burial while the latter is).

That would tell me that suffering does serve a good purpose in this life. But since there are those types of people I've mentioned who have their lives destroyed and have to resort to assisted suicide, then I personally see no reason to be in this life of suffering. I think this supports the materialistic view of reality more than the spiritualist view.

If there was some spiritual purpose for all the suffering in this world, then there would be no people having to resort to assisted suicide. Everyone's life would be more meaningful and more worth living through all of that suffering.

Not all spiritual benefits are used in this world. And not everything that happens in this life, is a result of something you did since you were born.

Lastly, there are people who are born into this world, suffer a horrible disease, and die shortly within a few days or months upon being born. So what was the purpose of that? Does being here in a life of suffering rather than up there in heaven where it is blissful really serve a purpose? Because I don't see any point to all of this suffering.

In Judaism, its possible for a person to sin in a previous life to an extent that rather than go to Hell, he is returned to Earth to suffer here until the blemish is removed. Some people need entire lives for that. Some people just just need a few years of suffering.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Yes.


First you say, that some people say suicide is wrong and there is a reason why we are here. And right after that you ask what about the people who have to resort to suicide. It looks like you answered your question before you asked it.


I'm not sure how that would make it the "right" thing. The easier thing, maybe. But I'm not sure how you came to "right".


In Judaism, if I recall correctly, the stricter prohibition against suicide generally relates to kamikaze or seppuku type suicide. Suicide out of mental instability is a much lighter prohibition (evidenced by the former not being allowed to have Jewish burial while the latter is).


Not all spiritual benefits are used in this world. And not everything that happens in this life, is a result of something you did since you were born.


In Judaism, its possible for a person to sin in a previous life to an extent that rather than go to Hell, he is returned to Earth to suffer here until the blemish is removed. Some people need entire lives for that. Some people just just need a few years of suffering.

I am going to post one more reply here. Sometimes, I wish this life were how materialists view it. That is, nothing supernatural. No karma, curses, Satan, etc. The reason for this is because I have had a series of depressive and traumatic events in my life that have taken approximately 8 years of my life away from me.

I would experience one obsessive worry/trauma. Then once that moment has passed, then immediately another one takes its place. The spiritualists would view this as bad karma, a curse, or Satan in my life. But the materialists would view this as nothing more than a series of unfortunate events in my life.

It would really get to me and anger me if this was all some curse or bad karma because that, in a way, would be like something in this universe intentionally holding me back and taking away the meaning in my life.

Another reason why it would really get to me would be because if I really am an immortal soul that is capable of living on in eternal bliss in the higher spiritual realms, then it would really anger me as to why I am here and suffer instead of being up there which would be the only life worth living to me.

But if the materialists are correct, then I would have no reason to be angry. All my suffering would be nothing more than bad luck.

 

[Tumah]

I am going to post one more reply here. Sometimes, I wish this life were how materialists view it. That is, nothing supernatural. No karma, curses, Satan, etc. The reason for this is because I have had a series of depressive and traumatic events in my life that have taken approximately 8 years of my life away from me.

I would experience one obsessive worry/trauma. Then once that moment has passed, then immediately another one takes its place. The spiritualists would view this as bad karma, a curse, or Satan in my life. But the materialists would view this as nothing more than a series of unfortunate events in my life.

It would really get to me and anger me if this was all some curse or bad karma because that, in a way, would be like something in this universe intentionally holding me back and taking away the meaning in my life.

Another reason why it would really get to me would be because if I really am an immortal soul that is capable of living on in eternal bliss in the higher spiritual realms, then it would really anger me as to why I am here and suffer instead of being up there which would be the only life worth living to me.

But if the materialists are correct, then I would have no reason to be angry. All my suffering would be nothing more than bad luck.

I'm not really sure how this directly relates to what I was talking about. But I see that despite the fact you created an entirely new thread, you also don't intend to discuss the topic anymore. So I'll leave it at that.

 

[rusra02]

I believe suffering began as a result of man's rebellion against God. The true God is not responsible for our suffering. I believe he has permitted it for good reasons, and for a relatively brief time, which may seem long to us. And he has promised to end all suffering in his due time. (Revelation 21:3,4)
Suffering can make us more compassionate and humble, more empathetic to another's suffering. Of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 5:8 states: “Although he was a Son [of God], he learned obedience from the things he suffered." Jesus was always obedient to Jehovah, but he learned from experience what it means to suffer for righteousness. Thus he is equipped to help others. "For in that he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.” (Hebrews 2:18)

 

[whirlingmerc]

There are several purposes

One of the oldest was mentioned by the young man who held his peace till the argument was almost over in the book of Job. The first positive spiritual purpose is to open the ears of the afflicted

Job 38:5 He delivers the afflicted by their affliction
and opens their ear by adversity.

Somehow a person is more receptive to listening to God about themselves
Sometimes the affliction kicks up issues hidden in the heart bringing them to the surface to deal with
Sometimes going through affliction makes you more sensitive to others and more empathetic
Sometime it's like God being a diamond cutter where we are the rough diamonds being made into something that better sparkles with the reflection of His glory

The world is fallen and broken and in need of redemption, suffering is a result of rebellion against God but the one suffering is not always the one who rebelled. Jesus didn't rebels for example and in lesser ways sometimes the relatively 'innocent' suffer for His glory as Psalm 44 would say.
For a believer there is no pointless suffering, all the pain will have a purpose in making a person more like Christ and someday it will be swallowed up with joy and will seem like 'light momentary affliction'

and in Psalm 88, the darkest lament in the Psalms, God has a purpose for suffering

 

[Nous]

I'd say that the value of adversity is oftentimes to shrink the ego--for those who are able to learn from such adversity.

 

[buddhist]

But if there is a heaven that is free of suffering and I was born up there where I can be happy for all eternity, then I would have already transcended suffering. I wouldn't have to go through any of it. Therefore, since transcending suffering is what is important here, then being here on Earth where there is much suffering is pointless.

According to Buddhism, the various levels of heavens are not free of suffering. Depending on the heaven, they have progressively less sufferings, and correspondingly greater pleasures, but the inhabitants do still suffer - especially when they realize they're about to die.

 

[viole]

This is my final topic revolving around the concept of suffering. It is regarding some important questions. First off, do you think that we are here in this life of suffering for a reason? I personally see no reason because there are plenty of people who have their lives destroyed by it.

Some people can never have their lives worth living ever again no matter what methods they try. They have to resort to assisted suicide since there is no way to get their lives back to them. Some would say that suicide is the wrong thing to do and that there is a reason why we are here in this life of suffering. But as for those types of people who have to resort to assisted suicide, what about them?

Wouldn't it be the right thing for them to end their lives? Furthermore, why would they go to a miserable afterlife for doing what had to be done? I see no reason for us to be here in this life of suffering. If there were a good reason, then everyone's life would become more meaningful and worth living through all of that suffering.

That would tell me that suffering does serve a good purpose in this life. But since there are those types of people I've mentioned who have their lives destroyed and have to resort to assisted suicide, then I personally see no reason to be in this life of suffering. I think this supports the materialistic view of reality more than the spiritualist view.

If there was some spiritual purpose for all the suffering in this world, then there would be no people having to resort to assisted suicide. Everyone's life would be more meaningful and more worth living through all of that suffering.

Lastly, there are people who are born into this world, suffer a horrible disease, and die shortly within a few days or months upon being born. So what was the purpose of that? Does being here in a life of suffering rather than up there in heaven where it is blissful really serve a purpose? Because I don't see any point to all of this suffering.

That the suffering of dying children is gratuitous is obvious. We can imagine the two scenarios:

1) a child dies after huge and prolonged pain
2) a child dies suddenly without pain

Under the assumption that both children will live an eternity of bliss in Heaven, then it is not clear what purpose the pain of the child of scenario 1) serves.

Ciao

- viole

 

[The Enlightened One]

First off, do you think that we are here in this life of suffering for a reason?

Not innately.

Some would say that suicide is the wrong thing to do and that there is a reason why we are here in this life of suffering. But as for those types of people who have to resort to assisted suicide, what about them?

Wouldn't it be the right thing for them to end their lives?

This really depends on whose definition of right and wrong you use.

Furthermore, why would they go to a miserable afterlife for doing what had to be done?

This is also dependent upon worldview. There isn't any concrete evidence that they would go anywhere, let alone somewhere more miserable.

I see no reason for us to be here in this life of suffering. If there were a good reason, then everyone's life would become more meaningful and worth living through all of that suffering.

That would tell me that suffering does serve a good purpose in this life. But since there are those types of people I've mentioned who have their lives destroyed and have to resort to assisted suicide, then I personally see no reason to be in this life of suffering.

Not necessarily. This would presuppose that suffering has no intent or effect on us in the afterlife. It could be just as important bliss, but we are limited to our own physical and social constructs to a degree so we internalize this suffering and deem it horrible.

I think this supports the materialistic view of reality more than the spiritualist view.

Only if you limit the unknown.

If there was some spiritual purpose for all the suffering in this world, then there would be no people having to resort to assisted suicide. Everyone's life would be more meaningful and more worth living through all of that suffering.

I can think of scenarios where these people would still commit suicide and it would still serve a spiritual purpose. What if it's punishment for something else? What if it's an elaborate simulation? What if these events carry over and what happens here becomes relevant to our spiritual growth. Many scenarios, all of which are equally plausible at this point.

Lastly, there are people who are born into this world, suffer a horrible disease, and die shortly within a few days or months upon being born. So what was the purpose of that? Does being here in a life of suffering rather than up there in heaven where it is blissful really serve a purpose? Because I don't see any point to all of this suffering

Maybe their suffering isn't for them. Maybe it's for somebody else. Or maybe there's a purpose your worldview just doesn't support.

 

[Kemosloby]

Suffering can help people sympathize with the plight of the suffering. Everybody suffers sometimes, some more than others, which appears to be random and unpredictable. Let theorize God works on many levels, through the individual and society as a whole, giving people opportunity to need help and give help, so that love or lack of love is manifest in society and individuals. To separate those who would give water to a dying man, to ease his suffering, and those who would not.

 

[SpiritQuest]

Life forms are relatively fragile and hence we experience suffering. As beings we experience a hierarchy of needs. Like a pyramid, the most basic needs at the bottom are water, food, shelter, warmth and rest. Moving up the pyramid there is need for safety and security, friendship, intimacy, love and relationships, esteem and accomplishment, etc. At the top of the pyramid is the capstone which is also the cornerstone and the realization of our full potential as creative beings. Who is the Christ? YOU are the Christ, which is the full creative potential within all beings.

 

[Etritonakin]

This is my final topic revolving around the concept of suffering. It is regarding some important questions. First off, do you think that we are here in this life of suffering for a reason? I personally see no reason because there are plenty of people who have their lives destroyed by it.

Some people can never have their lives worth living ever again no matter what methods they try. They have to resort to assisted suicide since there is no way to get their lives back to them. Some would say that suicide is the wrong thing to do and that there is a reason why we are here in this life of suffering. But as for those types of people who have to resort to assisted suicide, what about them?

Wouldn't it be the right thing for them to end their lives? Furthermore, why would they go to a miserable afterlife for doing what had to be done? I see no reason for us to be here in this life of suffering. If there were a good reason, then everyone's life would become more meaningful and worth living through all of that suffering.

That would tell me that suffering does serve a good purpose in this life. But since there are those types of people I've mentioned who have their lives destroyed and have to resort to assisted suicide, then I personally see no reason to be in this life of suffering. I think this supports the materialistic view of reality more than the spiritualist view.

If there was some spiritual purpose for all the suffering in this world, then there would be no people having to resort to assisted suicide. Everyone's life would be more meaningful and more worth living through all of that suffering.

Lastly, there are people who are born into this world, suffer a horrible disease, and die shortly within a few days or months upon being born. So what was the purpose of that? Does being here in a life of suffering rather than up there in heaven where it is blissful really serve a purpose? Because I don't see any point to all of this suffering.

Pain is generally more of an immediate and temporary state useful for letting us know what not to do -where not to go, etc., and can even help us design a more user-friendly environment.

However, pain becomes useless and counterproductive in that sense if it cannot be avoided by making correct choices or if it cannot be remedied.

Suffering is generally more long-term or related to situations or states which must be endured.
Suffering physical pain can point to a larger situation which needs to be remedied, though it may not be possible for the individual to do so by their own choices.
Emotional suffering is often the result of more complex issues, but can also teach us how to avoid undesirable situations and create desirable situations.

Suffering can work spiritual patience, cause us to focus on what is most important and other positive things, but it can also be overwhelming and destructive.
It is written that it is better to be in the house of mourning than feasting -that a sad countenance makes the heart better, etc., but it is also written that all is vanity, that nothing truly profits humans because they are only temporary.
It can help us to master our environment -if it does not overwhelm us -or.... if somehow we were not able to be overwhelmed -or our destruction was not permanent.

The horrific suffering in the world is often just that -horrific.

It is still indicative of that which needs to be changed in order to avoid it, but often it is beyond the power of individuals or groups to make those changes.
With increased knowledge, will and unity, more could be changed -but that is also often beyond our control.

Because we exist in a very complex system, it can be corrupted in very complex ways which cause great suffering. We are also vulnerable to accidents and shortsightedness -which can also cause great suffering.
We lack the understanding and ability to make choices which will avoid suffering, and the power to remedy all suffering.

Suffering does not always work good for the individual -it often simply makes life miserable.

The only good which can come from such suffering would be as a reference in the future toward a remedy for our overall state and situation.
Such could only be good for individuals who have suffered so if they are able to live again to benefit from the remedied overall state and situation.
If all suffering could cause all to avoid it in the future -and all suffering could be remedied -it would all serve a purpose.
The only way that is going to happen is if something or someone greater causes it to happen.

From a biblical perspective, the present situation is due to being denied access to the tree of life -and toward the end that we will later willingly and gladly accept the tree of life -and obey the necessary associated laws which prevent our actions from causing suffering for ourselves and others -having experienced the fact that they are toward the proper function and maintenance of the creation -including our selves.
That is not to say that human actions alone are responsible for suffering -as a lack of intervention from the all-powerful also allowed suffering -and God has even directly and indirectly caused such for our eventual perfection.
Even all humans who have ever lived could not stand a chance against natural and cosmic forces -so seeking one who does have power over such is definitely to our advantage.
We will be given increased power later -but God naturally has and must and logically retain the greatest power.