Hmmm....this offends us pedants.
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Anybody want to deny the Democrat party isn't socialist now?
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Socialism
Socialism can be regarded as "a system of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control."
It's essentially a state-controlled economy in which the state controls the means of production over private firms and businesses.
(We see it manifest with the ev mandate for example.)
Marxism
Marxism is a social, political, and economic philosophy completly based on the teachings of Karl Marx.
It focuses the effect capitalism has over development of productivity, economic development and pushes and argues for revolution in favor of overturning capitalism, and embracing communism.
Stalinism
Essentially a cult of personality around Joseph Stalin. Employing totalitarian means focusing on expanded compulsory industry and command economy through autocratic means.
You could say its communism on steroids through one man.
Leninism
Wiki has the best for this....
Vladimir Lenin that proposes the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat led by a revolutionary vanguard party, as the political prelude to the establishment of communism
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
There's plenty of groups out there endorsing forms of facisism, but they are private and independent of the Republican party as far as I'm aware which probably indicates that fascism hasn't yet penetrated American politics.
Unlike socialism, which has just as bad a track record that leads to authoritarianism and eventually totalitarianism is now clearly being promoted and endorsed by democrats.
Obviously history dosent matter to them of the consequences.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's still an acquisition of power contrary to the welfare of a free society.
"Other people's money", because the "others" want to have free police, free fire department, free schools, free roads, free infrastructure, etc.
You make it sound as if the Danes live on any money the Finns can get their hands on. No, the greedy Americans don;t want to invest in a society that has so much financial diversity that many can't survive, and for various reasons, like ongoing discrimination, poor education, poverty, lack of resources, lack of opportunity, etc.
Oppresive for big businesses that pollute. Like clean air and water? You won't get any without regulations.
Yes, there are still a few Republicans who aren't fascists.
No it isn't. No democrat is saying the government should buy all businesses.
Not your distorted view.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Why should they buy business when they can easily control it like they own it themselves.
Distorted? Lol. In your dreams.
I look at the actual reality around me. Not the media fantasy world your privy towards.
Okay. Good. You clearly know how to Google.
But I’m asking what you understand about the systems/philosophies specifically. Like what are your main gripes and likes about them?
Indeed no successful country is purely capitalist or socialist.
Since to be a socialist seems to be such an indictment to you, I’m merely curious
I mean I could care less if some political party in my country proclaims itself to be socialist.
Indeed a bigger red flag for me is a politician looking to emulate either of the US political parties. No offence but both your sides look downright draconian to me. I live in the 21st century.
Many countries incorporate socialistic principles as does the US even.
Otherwise neither of us would have roads to drive on, right?
So expand on what you know.
I’m an idiot, but you know more than me
So it should be easy for you
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The United States has and is steadily dropping down the freedom index at an exponential rate.Okay. Good. You clearly know how to Google.
But I’m asking what you understand about the systems/philosophies specifically. Like what are your main gripes and likes about them?
Indeed no successful country is purely capitalist or socialist.
Since to be a socialist seems to be such an indictment to you, I’m merely curious
I mean I could care less if some political party in my country proclaims itself to be socialist.
Indeed a bigger red flag for me is a politician looking to emulate either of the US political parties. No offence but both your sides look downright draconian to me. I live in the 21st century.
Many countries incorporate socialistic principles as does the US even.
Otherwise neither of us would have roads to drive on, right?
So expand on what you know.
I’m an idiot, but you know more than me
So it should be easy for you
It at one time the index rating was much higher and pretty much at the top.
Since the 70s , I've lived long enough to see those freedoms erode before my very eyes and since , the Democrats have been more and more controlling and aggressive in their policymaking and the undeniable leftward shift toward socialist leanings. Now they are starting to not even hide it anymore as my op demonstrated by members of the Democrat party themselves threatening socialism, which is all but unrecognizable from the bluedogs from past decades.
This country is eroding and I blame Democrats primarily a large portion of this erosion and to a lesser extent, the Republicans as well. This is because compulsary legislation has taken precedent over elective policymaking which makes for a huge red flag we are heading fast towards authoritarianism.
It's as simple as that.
Fair enough
I have a differing view
But I’m not American so I doubt I’d know the ins and outs like you do
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Most of my commentary and criticism is based on my personal experiences and not completely centered on the academic aspect of how things ought to be defined. All I know is the real time changes and the direction both left and right wing ideologies are taking us.
I'm not against social programs of and in itself, it's the way they are being implemented that concerns me. There's a diff between social programs and political socialism which the latter being the engine being used to to implement various social programs through compulsory means.
Imv, it essentially tells me its a Trojan horse, where inside seemingly harmless social programs therein, lay the political infrastructure of socialist government being built to intentionally replace democracy altogether.
What do you mean by “Trojan horse?”
We have much more social programs than the US
Have yet to be thrown against the wall by Stalin
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Compulsory legislation.What do you mean by “Trojan horse?”
We have much more social programs than the US
Have yet to be thrown against the wall by Stalin
That's what's inside the Trojan horse.
It isn't harmless social programs they are pitching to people. That carrot on a stick.
It's the implementation of the legal tools needed to control and subjugate the population and industry that is the real goal behind the implementation of social programs. Make things compulsory on one thing, you can make things compulsory on another and then yet another.
You mean like wearing seatbelts, not smoking in the restaurant, and not feeding a double scotch to your child? Oh, the horror! How does America bear such subjugation?!? Why, you're practically slaves!
What control? Like no dumping of toxins in rivers and streams because children downstream are getting cancer? You oppose this kind of control by "we the people" over big business?
Or are democrats going into mom and pop shops wanting to run their businesses? Or running corporations? Of course they are not. You are full of right wing bologna.
What media do you use to "inform" what you think is "actual reality"? What you say is not consistent with facts and what we observe. Your views are consistent with far right wing disinformation, which should be embarrassing for you.
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Part of me wants to be there when you meet an actual Marxist so I can see your head explode.
When I say "unbridled," I mean that there isn't enough regulation on corporations in particular when it comes to their environmental impact, the taxes the ultra-rich pay, etc. In my opinion, billionaires—or at least multibillionaires like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk—probably shouldn't exist in a reasonable tax system, and corporations definitely shouldn't have as much leeway to carry out environmentally destructive activities for profit as they do now.
The Scandinavian model's relatively high taxes and strong social security are indeed partially inspired by socialism; it's not pure capitalism or pure socialism but a mix of both.
I wouldn't mind full-blown socialism if not for my belief that it would be too idealistic to safely put into practice. Give a state as much power as a bona fide socialist or communist system requires and you will probably end up with a corrupt, brutal dictatorship within a decade at most. Human nature is too flawed for such concentrated power to work well in practice—just as it is too flawed for a truly free, purely capitalist market not to result in monopolies, exploitation, and excessive corporate lobbying.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I already did. A Russian visiting the states from the USSR with his personal medals in full view just prior to Gorbachev taking power.
Why not? It often seems to be the argument of choice.
What compulsory legislation are you talking about specifically?
Like speeding laws?
Wearing safety gear around construction sites?
Federal requirements for buildings, roads etc?
Food safety laws?
Dare I say it, vaccine requirements?