Anyone familiar with a "beer" without any yeast or hops?

[Princeps Eugenius]

Ive read that the ancient beer was brewed without any hops or yeast and was barely functioning on the corn to be an alcoholic bewearege. Anyone know of such bewerages that dint include any yeast or hops in them? i couldnt find myself any modern drinks of such kind.

 

[Sees]

Don't think we would consider it to be beer.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

Don't think we would consider it to be beer.

Yeah, but people, in ancient times, didnt use hops to produce beer. There is a drink called "kwas" in eastern europe, although its not alcoholic, which is made from simple corn and taste great. so i was wondering whether there could be a beer that tastes like "kwas" but also includes alcohol!

 

[Nietzsche]

Don't think we would consider it to be beer.

Ive read that the ancient beer was brewed without any hops or yeast and was barely functioning on the corn to be an alcoholic bewearege. Anyone know of such bewerages that dint include any yeast or hops in them? i couldnt find myself any modern drinks of such kind.

It wouldn't really be beer. The oldest written anything on the planet is a recipe for Sumerian beer. The difference is that they'd use barely bread, as in loaves, for the yeast. This "beer" though was more an alcoholic gruel, where they'd use reeds as straws so as to not drink the bitter solids left over from fermentation.

Though you can fine rye beers, wheat-beer, all sorts of stuff.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yeah, but people, in ancient times, didnt use hops to produce beer. There is a drink called "kwas" in eastern europe, although its not alcoholic, which is made from simple corn and taste great. so i was wondering whether there could be a beer that tastes like "kwas" but also includes alcohol!

I would have to (and probably should) go do research, but as I recall, the original recipe for "beer" from either Egypt or Sumer, used bread made from wheat, barley and/or rye. I recall there was a hymn to a Goddess in thanks for her making the beer. And if I recall, someone figured out how to make it, and was even for a time selling it commercially. As I recall. Maybe I wouldn't trust my memory on that.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

I would have to (and probably should) go do research, but as I recall, the original recipe for "beer" from either Egypt or Sumer, used bread made from wheat, barley and/or rye. I recall there was a hymn to a Goddess in thanks for her making the beer. And if I recall, someone figured out how to make it, and was even for a time selling it commercially. As I recall. Maybe I wouldn't trust my memory on that.

Even in late antiquity, in the time of Emperor Julian 2, beer, in Gaul and Germania, was still produced without hops or yeast.

 

[McBell]

The German Beer Purity Law (Reinheitsgebot) of 1516 stated that the only ingredients that could be used in beer production were water, barley, and hops. Note that yeast is not mentioned, it didn't arrive on the scene until 300 years later.
Source

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

The German Beer Purity Law (Reinheitsgebot) of 1516 stated that the only ingredients that could be used in beer production were water, barley, and hops. Note that yeast is not mentioned, it didn't arrive on the scene until 300 years later.
Source

Das Reinheitsgebot is a bunch of bs anyway. Its just some arbitrary sentences used to promote a sense " standard" for modern beer. I would rather drink a beer brewed like the ancient used to brew it.

 

[McBell]

Das Reinheitsgebot is a bunch of bs anyway. Its just some arbitrary sentences used to promote a sense " standard" for modern beer. I would rather drink a beer brewed like the ancient used to brew it.

good luck finding a recipe from before the non-ancient 1500's.....

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

good luck finding a recipe from before the non-ancient 1500's.....

As I recall, it was in Sumerian cuneiform, circa third millenium BCE.

Edit: more recent than that: second millenium...here's a link that includes the text of the recipe/hymn:

http://www.openculture.com/2015/03/the-oldest-beer-recipe-in-history.html

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

good luck finding a recipe from before the non-ancient 1500's.....

Hmm ive recently read the germanic Edda and there the "Ale" (Äl in German) was mentioned. Then i looked up what the term meant, as Äl is not used to discribe beer in germany at all and is most likely outdated unlike the english "Ale". So i checked wikipedia and there Äl was discribed as a beer, prior to das Reinheitsgebot, where hops were not used in order to brew the ale/beer. It was a drink made from barley and this sparkled my interest to drink it, as our forefathers have done. Then i thought that the english "ale" was also without hops and thought of buying that but it was a mistake.

 

[Jainarayan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't fermentation require yeast (which naturally flioats around in the environment)?

 

[Nietzsche]

Das Reinheitsgebot is a bunch of bs anyway. Its just some arbitrary sentences used to promote a sense " standard" for modern beer. I would rather drink a beer brewed like the ancient used to brew it.

It's not arbitrary, and it's far more important than you give credit. It was one of the first successful pan-German developments. Before then almost everything that was attempted to unite the society of cats and badgers that made up German Europe had failed on a fundamental level. But making it possible to define "Beer", making it a truly German concept, and by extension tell the French & Poles where to stick their alcohols of choice? They fell into line on their own with that bit of carrot.

So laugh if you want, dislike it all you want, but don't ever call it "arbitrary".

 

[Nietzsche]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't fermentation require yeast (which naturally flioats around in the environment)?

You need some way to convert sugar into alcohol, and that is literally impossible without yeast. So yes, yeast is vital.

 

[Valjean]

That's my understanding, as well. Weather yeast is added as an ingredient or floats down from the air, without it you're not going to get fermentation.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't fermentation require yeast (which naturally flioats around in the environment)?

Yeah, this might be correct. But i was thinking of adding large amounts of it, like into bread. Take a "Becks" beer for exaple it doesnt have any yeast in the ingredient index but if you take a "Paulaner" it has yeast listed and the taste is very different due to the yeast.

 

[Nietzsche]

Yeah, this might be correct. But i was thinking of adding large amounts of it, like into bread. Take a "Becks" beer for exaple it doesnt have any yeast in the ingredient index but if you take a "Paulaner" it has yeast listed and the taste is very different due to the yeast.

I guarantee they had the exact same amount of yeast during the fermentation process. What they do after that is filter it. Bourbon, whiskey, vodka & such do not contain any yeast(or extremely little) in the end-product because it was removed.

Beer tends to keep its yeast because it adds body. You'll notice that darker beers contain more yeast and tend to have more complex flavours.

 

[ScottySatan]

Ancient folks didn't know what yeast was, so it's not recorded. But there are accounts of old brewmasters having their own personal stirring stick that made the beer just so. That's probably the source of yeast and other beer making microbes.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

Ancient folks didn't know what yeast was, so it's not recorded. But there are accounts of old brewmasters having their own personal stirring stick that made the beer just so. That's probably the source of yeast and other beer making microbes.

Is that right? Im pretty sure in the Hebrew scriptures YHWH hates yeast. And people baked their bread with yeast also, while Jews had to do it so quickly during Passover that they only could bake unleavened bread (Matzah).

 

[ScottySatan]

Is that right? Im pretty sure in the Hebrew scriptures YHWH hates yeast. And people baked their bread with yeast also, while Jews had to do it so quickly during Passover that they only could bake unleavened bread (Matzah).

You're right. Maybe. I never put those two together. So what did the hebrews use for leavening? I imagine left over dough mixed into new dough.