Anyone wants to bid on Paul Pelosi's $170,000 luxury Porsche? It could be yours!

[Shadow Wolf]

Any evidence that self driving Teslas
are worse than human drivers?

Human drivers you know what you get.
Tesla you get this assumption that its fully tested and fully self driving, because they sell it as fully self driving. That is a lie and why they've been named in multiple lawsuits.

 

[Suave]

California is one of the places suing Telsa because their so called "full self driving feature" hit a parked cop car.
Honestly, you can't pay me to own one of those pieces of crap with their anti-consumer repair policies, that they sometimes come with junk parts (like some made of wood), the policy to pay to use features already there (seriously, we don't have to pay extra for the cheese and bun when we order a cheeseburger) and their lies about their self driving features that hit other cars, stationary objects, don't see pedestrians and have such bad judgement I've gotten scared just watching some of the videos I've seen (like how I've seen them hesitate and repeatedly fail to make an unprotected left turn).
And another concern about their self driving feature, Telsa is truly a wanker because they let anyone with the money for it do their testing on public roads and entirely without public knowledge and consent. No other company does this. They test the auto pilot on closed tracks and if it's on the open road it is a certified safety driver who is doing the testing.

Any evidence that self driving Teslas
are worse than human drivers?

Tesla with Autopilot engaged approaches 10x lower chance of accident than average car: here's the data | Electrek

“In the 1st quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.19 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.05 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 978 thousand miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 484,000 miles.”

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Tesla with Autopilot engaged approaches 10x lower chance of accident than average car: here's the data | Electrek

California regulator claims Tesla falsely advertised Autopilot, Full Self-Driving

WASHINGTON/NEW YORK Aug 5 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), the electric car company run by billionaire Elon Musk, has been accused by a California state transportation regulator of falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features as providing autonomous vehicle control.

Tesla insists Autopilot and Full Self-Driving are safe, but US senators aren’t buying it

Tesla occasionally releases safety reports that echo these same statistics in an effort to frame Autopilot as safer than human driving. But experts note that these stats are largely meaningless, as Autopilot is primarily used for highway driving. Comparing it to national statistics that include a wide variety of driving environments, including residential and urban driving, gives Tesla an unfair advantage.
...
He does not mention, however, that regulators and safety experts have spent years begging Tesla to add better driver monitoring to its cars. Musk has even admitted that crashes involving Autopilot stem from complacency but previously rejected his own engineers’ calls to add more robust driver monitoring to the company’s cars. Musk said at the time that the tech was “ineffective.”

And MIT has confirmed drivers pay less attention to the road while they're using auto pilot, autopilot isn't that good off the highway, and other companies add devices to make sure the driver is paying attention to the road.

 

[Suave]

Any evidence that self driving Teslas
are

California regulator claims Tesla falsely advertised Autopilot, Full Self-Driving

Tesla insists Autopilot and Full Self-Driving are safe, but US senators aren’t buying it

And MIT has confirmed drivers pay less attention to the road while they're using auto pilot, autopilot isn't that good off the highway, and other companies add devices to make sure the driver is paying attention to the road.

As far as I know there have been only 11 reported deaths in car accidents involving Tesla autopiloted vehicles out of approximately 700,000 total Tesla autopiloted vehicles driven in the U.S. since 2014, this in comparison to roughly 270,000 car fatalities out of roughly 270 million non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in the U.S, since 2014, I figure then the car fatality rate in car accidents involving a Tesla autopiloted vehicles per Tesla auto-piloted vehicle driven in total is roughly one in 63,000, this compares favorably to the roughly one auto accident fatality per thousand non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in total.

California is biased against Tesla due to Tesla's move from there to Texas.

 

[Wu Wei]

As far as I know there have been only 11 reported deaths in car accidents involving Tesla autopiloted vehicles out of approximately 700,000 total Tesla autopiloted vehicles driven in the U.S. since 2014, this in comparison to roughly 270,000 car fatalities out of roughly 270 million non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in the U.S, since 2014, I figure then the car fatality rate in car accidents involving a Tesla autopiloted vehicles per Tesla auto-piloted vehicle driven in total is roughly one in 63,000, this compares favorably to the roughly one auto accident fatality per thousand non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in total.

California is biased against Tesla due to Tesla's move from there to Texas.

There has been a little over 270 accidents related to the Tesla autopilot. Still not a lot compared to how many have been sold (closer to 800,000), but autopilot has been an issue more than 11 times

 

[Suave]

There has been a little over 270 accidents related to the Tesla autopilot. Still not a lot compared to how many have been sold (closer to 800,000), but autopilot has been an issue more than 11 times

Death there has only been an issue 11 times however,

 

[Twilight Hue]

California is one of the places suing Telsa because their so called "full self driving feature" hit a parked cop car.
Honestly, you can't pay me to own one of those pieces of crap with their anti-consumer repair policies, that they sometimes come with junk parts (like some made of wood), the policy to pay to use features already there (seriously, we don't have to pay extra for the cheese and bun when we order a cheeseburger) and their lies about their self driving features that hit other cars, stationary objects, don't see pedestrians and have such bad judgement I've gotten scared just watching some of the videos I've seen (like how I've seen them hesitate and repeatedly fail to make an unprotected left turn).
And another concern about their self driving feature, Telsa is truly a wanker because they let anyone with the money for it do their testing on public roads and entirely without public knowledge and consent. No other company does this. They test the auto pilot on closed tracks and if it's on the open road it is a certified safety driver who is doing the testing.

Aside from all that, it's the monetization that concerns me the most. Charging extra money for features that ought to be standard with the purchase.

It's bad enough they removed jacks and full sized spare tires with full price of the vehicle.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's bad enough they removed jacks and full sized spare tires with full price of the vehicle.

That one is straight up bs, just as their excuse of doing it to save fuel efficiency.
No joke, my last car, a 1012 Scion/Toyota xd, came with a jack so bad that even the manual says not to use it and use a floor jack instead.
And some cars, it's worse than a small donut because some come with NO spare tire at all. That's just dumb anyway you look at it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As far as I know there have been only 11 reported deaths in car accidents involving Tesla autopiloted vehicles out of approximately 700,000 total Tesla autopiloted vehicles driven in the U.S. since 2014, this in comparison to roughly 270,000 car fatalities out of roughly 270 million non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in the U.S, since 2014, I figure then the car fatality rate in car accidents involving a Tesla autopiloted vehicles per Tesla auto-piloted vehicle driven in total is roughly one in 63,000, this compares favorably to the roughly one auto accident fatality per thousand non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in total.

Much like with Covid, death isn't the only nasty potential symptom to be concerned about.

California is biased against Tesla due to Tesla's move from there to Texas.

It's been going on longer than that. As far as I know, that cop car getting hit (in 2018) is what jumpstarted things.
Tesla hits parked California police vehicle; driver blames 'Autopilot'

 

[Twilight Hue]

That one is straight up bs, just as their excuse of doing it to save fuel efficiency.
No joke, my last car, a 1012 Scion/Toyota xd, came with a jack so bad that even the manual says not to use it and use a floor jack instead.
And some cars, it's worse than a small donut because some come with NO spare tire at all. That's just dumb anyway you look at it.

It's why I rail against corporations now, even as a capitalist at heart.

Cheapened /removed features and standards along with planned obsolescence is destroying people's ability to save and enjoy better quality and longevity of their purchase.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's why I rail against corporations now, even as a capitalist at heart.

Cheapened /removed features and standards along with planned obsolescence is destroying people's ability to save and enjoy better quality and longevity of their purchase.

I don't see how much of it is criminal, like John Deere's proprietary software that basically forces farmers to seek out qualified mechanics and use approved parts for the repair.
And I love how one of the means to hack those tractor computers is getting it to install and run DOOM (and it's farm themed).
Hopefully this SC doesn't side with Deere and Tesla and others like them when the Right to Repair likely eventually comes before the.

 

[Suave]

Much like with Covid, death isn't the only nasty potential symptom to be concerned about.

It's been going on longer than that. As far as I know, that cop car getting hit (in 2018) is what jumpstarted things.
Tesla hits parked California police vehicle; driver blames 'Autopilot'

That happened four years ago, I am pretty sure Tesla by now has reprogrammed their autopiloted cars not to plow into parked cop cars, ,,,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That happened four years ago, I am pretty sure Tesla by now has reprogrammed their autopiloted cars not to plow into parked cop cars, ,,,

It isn't settled and Tesla really hasn't done much to convince these program is more safe now than it was then.
And the point remains California going after Tesla has nothing to do with Tesla leaving because its been going on longer than that.

 

[Suave]

It isn't settled and Tesla really hasn't done much to convince these program is more safe now than it was then.
And the point remains California going after Tesla has nothing to do with Tesla leaving because its been going on longer than that.

I suspect if Tesla's H.Q. were to have remained in California, their legal disputes would have likely been promptly settled,

Tesla software update 2021.32.5 is going to activate the little camera inside the car above the rearview mirror. It will be watching the driver's eyes. If the driver starts looking somewhere else besides the road for more than a few seconds, the car will notify the driver. If the driver doesn't start paying attention after about thirty seconds, Autopilot disengages with a loud alarm and a big red steering wheel icon on the screen. And the driver had better be ready to take over. The camera-based driver monitoring system is rolling out to radar-equipped cars.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I suspect if Tesla's H.Q. were to have remained in California, their legal disputes would have likely been promptly settled,

One of their cars hit a cop car. That's pretty damning for getting the law off your back.

Tesla software update 2021.32.5 is going to activate the little camera inside the car above the rearview mirror. It will be watching the driver's eyes. If the driver starts looking somewhere else besides the road for more than a few seconds, the car will notify the driver. If the driver doesn't start paying attention after about thirty seconds, Autopilot disengages with a loud alarm and a big red steering wheel icon on the screen. And the driver had better be ready to take over. The camera-based driver monitoring system is rolling out to radar-equipped cars.

So, they've had it but just didn't let it be activated. That decision was a poor one that had consequences for other people.
It just makes them look worse.

 

[Stevicus]

I suspect if Tesla's H.Q. were to have remained in California, their legal disputes would have likely been promptly settled,

Tesla software update 2021.32.5 is going to activate the little camera inside the car above the rearview mirror. It will be watching the driver's eyes. If the driver starts looking somewhere else besides the road for more than a few seconds, the car will notify the driver. If the driver doesn't start paying attention after about thirty seconds, Autopilot disengages with a loud alarm and a big red steering wheel icon on the screen. And the driver had better be ready to take over. The camera-based driver monitoring system is rolling out to radar-equipped cars.

That might work, although I've wondered about the idea of cars being controlled by a centralized computer which could also help to reduce accidents. If the central computer knows where all the cars are, what they're doing, and where they're going, the chances of collision are practically nil. No speeding, no sudden lane changes or going across three lanes to make a last second turn.

Of course, I recognize the drawbacks of such a system, but another plus is that, if no drivers are making traffic violations, there'd be no excuse for cops to pull people over. There'd be no real need for traffic cops anyway.

 

[Revoltingest]

Human drivers you know what you get.
Tesla you get this assumption that its fully tested and fully self driving, because they sell it as fully self driving. That is a lie and why they've been named in multiple lawsuits.

A human driver ran me down on purpose.
Teslas are far far less murderous.

 

[Revoltingest]

As far as I know there have been only 11 reported deaths in car accidents involving Tesla autopiloted vehicles out of approximately 700,000 total Tesla autopiloted vehicles driven in the U.S. since 2014, this in comparison to roughly 270,000 car fatalities out of roughly 270 million non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in the U.S, since 2014, I figure then the car fatality rate in car accidents involving a Tesla autopiloted vehicles per Tesla auto-piloted vehicle driven in total is roughly one in 63,000, this compares favorably to the roughly one auto accident fatality per thousand non-autopiloted non-Tesla cars driven in total.

California is biased against Tesla due to Tesla's move from there to Texas.

That 270k death figure seems too high.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A human driver ran me down on purpose.
Teslas are far far less murderous.

Humans aren't promoted as being infallible.
Telsas are, but they aren't. Amd worse yet drivers do tend to pay less attention to the road and take their eyes off it when they use autopilot.

 

[Suave]

That 270k death figure seems too high.

I figured that based on an average of 33,7k U.S, auto accident fatalities per year times the 8 years from year 2014 to the current year 2022,

Motor vehicle fatality rate in U.S. by year - Wikipedia

Tesla Model S and Model X cars "built between September 2014 and October 2016 included first generation Autopilot hardware: one camera, a first-generation radar and ultrasonic sensors."

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability | Tesla