EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Lilitu is an invention of Mesopotamian lore, all these deities are simply archetypal structures. None of them are any more or less existent than the other.
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Anyone worship Lilith?
- Thread starter Kapalika
- Start date
Maponos
Welcome to the Opera
Liu
Well-Known Member
It doesn't necessarily change anything about the existence of these beings, but what it does change is that it makes it much more difficult for us to know whether these beings exist.
I mean, even if you'd now encounter the Lilitu, who is to tell that those are the same beings of ancient Mesopotamia?
And even if they are, how does that mean that Lilith doesn't exist as well? I have heard of a lot of people who work with her, but maybe one who works with the Lilitu so far.
Maponos
Welcome to the Opera
Liu
Well-Known Member
Sure, but why would you claim to know that the Lilitu exist or existed?
From what I hear of people who work with such entities, their experiences don't differ depending on whether the entities are of ancient Mesopotamia or by Lovecraft.
You're not real. How can you say my mom isn't real?
Isaiah 34:14
Many translations note Lilith as it's the most modern term for what is meant.
Also from @Erebus 's earlier link: Lilith
"To her that flies in rooms of darkness – pass quickly, quickly, Lil[ith]." In Scripture there is only one reference to Lilith (Isa. 34:14), among the beasts of prey and the spirits that will lay waste the land on the day of vengeance. In sources dating from earlier centuries, traditions concerning the female demon who endangers women in childbirth and who assumes many guises and names are distinct from the explicit tradition on Lilith recorded in the Talmud.
So it actually is in there, some translations don't translate the word as you would recognize it, but many do such as the Common English translation.
Also I've encountered her (fleetingly thank god she's scary lol), as well as her children (quite a lot). I'm pretty darn sure they are real all things considered.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Satyrs are demons or demon possessed people. I don't see Lilith in that verse. I believe Lilith is just some made up character invented to make Eve look inadequate and the Genesis account look inaccurate.
The closest i get to worship is cussing Anoia,the goddess of things that get stuck in drawers
Anoia - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki
Anoia - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki
A lot happened before the bible was ever thought of
Maponos
Welcome to the Opera
Wrong.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Okay, educate me. What are they, exactly?
Maponos
Welcome to the Opera
'Demon' denotes that they were 'fallen angels'. Such a being does not exist in European polytheism. Satyrs are wild nature spirits.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
What is a wild nature spirit? Do you think they exist? What about nymphs?
Sorry to be asking so many questions but I am curious.
Maponos
Welcome to the Opera
A spirit that is part of the more wild and unforgiving side of nature. Just as nature is kind, it can also be cruel. They are both, really.
Yes and yes.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Christianity wasn't born until Christ was.
However, Judaism has existed ever since the creation. I know you don't think so but I do think so, I'm sure of it.
Maponos
Welcome to the Opera
Judaism came from Canaanite and Mesopotamian polytheistic religions.
Hold on everyone is arguing about the wrong thing back up. Also please no more debating in my interfaith topic. I've made this post to just show the Hebrew for others interested in knowing what the verse actually says.
The verse in Hebrew: Isaiah 34 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre
You are all arguing about Satyrs when that isn't even the word referring to Lilith and "Satyr" isn't something mythical here.
The King James Version translates "Lilith" (לִּילִית) to "the screech owl", the "Satyr" translation is in reference to שָׂעִיר
Er, the idea that Lilith was the first wife of Adam came a lot later than the portion of mythology that the verse pointed to. We are getting many many centuries ahead of ourselves.
Edit: The word translated as Satyr can either mean "hairy", "sacrificial goat" or "demon possessed goat" according to the Bible study source I mention later.
No mention of it being a person or demon.
Then you might be interested in what the actual Hebrew of the verse has to say which is what I was going to use anyway.
Lilith in Hebrew: לִּילִית
Strong's Number 3917 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com
Isaiah 34:14: (emphasis added for Lilith)
יד וּפָגְשׁוּ צִיִּים אֶת-אִיִּים, וְשָׂעִיר עַל-רֵעֵהוּ יִקְרָא; אַךְ-שָׁם הִרְגִּיעָה לִּילִית, וּמָצְאָה לָהּ מָנוֹחַ.
So ya, it's there.
Besides that, I don't see why you choose my interfaith topic to seemingly debate on. In either case I thought I would offer what I do happen to know on the subject. I don't think any of this information challenges your faith. It's more like an interesting bit of history.
"Satyr" is here:
יד וּפָגְשׁוּ צִיִּים אֶת-אִיִּים, וְשָׂעִיר עַל-רֵעֵהוּ יִקְרָא; אַךְ-שָׁם הִרְגִּיעָה לִּילִית, וּמָצְאָה לָהּ מָנוֹחַ.
Satyr isn't some mythical animal in the actual Hebrew: Strong's Number 8163 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com
That source indicates it actually means a goat.
The verse in Hebrew: Isaiah 34 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre
You are all arguing about Satyrs when that isn't even the word referring to Lilith and "Satyr" isn't something mythical here.
The King James Version translates "Lilith" (לִּילִית) to "the screech owl", the "Satyr" translation is in reference to שָׂעִיר
Er, the idea that Lilith was the first wife of Adam came a lot later than the portion of mythology that the verse pointed to. We are getting many many centuries ahead of ourselves.
Edit: The word translated as Satyr can either mean "hairy", "sacrificial goat" or "demon possessed goat" according to the Bible study source I mention later.
No mention of it being a person or demon.
Then you might be interested in what the actual Hebrew of the verse has to say which is what I was going to use anyway.
Lilith in Hebrew: לִּילִית
Strong's Number 3917 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com
Isaiah 34:14: (emphasis added for Lilith)
יד וּפָגְשׁוּ צִיִּים אֶת-אִיִּים, וְשָׂעִיר עַל-רֵעֵהוּ יִקְרָא; אַךְ-שָׁם הִרְגִּיעָה לִּילִית, וּמָצְאָה לָהּ מָנוֹחַ.
So ya, it's there.
Besides that, I don't see why you choose my interfaith topic to seemingly debate on. In either case I thought I would offer what I do happen to know on the subject. I don't think any of this information challenges your faith. It's more like an interesting bit of history.
"Satyr" is here:
יד וּפָגְשׁוּ צִיִּים אֶת-אִיִּים, וְשָׂעִיר עַל-רֵעֵהוּ יִקְרָא; אַךְ-שָׁם הִרְגִּיעָה לִּילִית, וּמָצְאָה לָהּ מָנוֹחַ.
Satyr isn't some mythical animal in the actual Hebrew: Strong's Number 8163 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com
That source indicates it actually means a goat.
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This is Interfaith Discussion. Please do not debate in this thread. Thanks!
delilahr3ss
Lilith knows my sadness and rage
Lilith comes to those women who sought after love and despite intense efforts are rejected and thrown away but also who share her view of nature and it's relation to femininity and sexuality. To her men are hopeless viruses. A plague on all life forms. Even so she requires their sexual virility to gain her strength. For those of us who look to her we see her pain and anguish as it mirrors our own giving rise to a bond. We offer up men to her who have wasted our love and affection in exchange for her gifts of beauty and pleasure from her. Through us the men she chooses for us are enslaved and drained. They age quicker and we gain some her life force in exchange. She is hidden from common knowledge and the programming of this world because it is a world ruled by the virus of men. The "creator" of this reality and the ruler of this world would see her as a threat.So throughout centuries she stays cloaked in mystery like all more minor witches of the druidic strain. She was once one of us a more advanced version of our race many eons ago but she has survived connecting with the despair of the female curse. She connects with the few who see her and let go of the illusion of romantic love. She is a reminder of the truth which sets women free of patriarchy.This is my experience with her.