Arabic and the Qu'ran

[Curiousgirl81]

Arabic is surely an ancient tongue with a beautiful history but to think they were like that from the beginning of time... ( I have many muslim friends that say this). It makes sense to believe that it has been alter over the centuries along with hebrew and aramaic/greek.
"Originally, the short vowels were not written; nor were the pronunciation marks, such as the shadda, the sign for doubling a consonant. As Islam spread to non-Arabic speakers, however, this writing system was revised. Dots, or diacritical marks, were added to distinguish different letters that use the same shape, and pronunciation marks and short vowels began to be used consistently to avoid ambiguity. By 750, the script had been forged into an accurate writing tool and had already acquired aesthetic associations."
If you want to read more here's the link

http://www.zakariya.net/resources/music.html

Now don't get me wrong i'm not trying to bad mouth your religion or anything I'm just trying to get something straight here. No religion is 100% right just like neither are 100% wrong. God send us messages perfectly but we're not

 

[anders]

Three days ago, I commented on your identical post on another board. You have not reacted yet. If you want to make a point, you should tell us what you want to discuss, and enter a discussion.

I repeat: you haven't even mentioned religion in your post, so why do you fear that somebody would understand you as badmouthing any religion?

 

[Curiousgirl81]

If you want to make a point, you should tell us what you want to discuss, and enter a discussion.

I just wanted to see if anyone had something to say that's all. I've had this same discussion with my friends about this and they've just ignored me. So I thought that if I write this down here, I would get a reaction... But I see no one... except you Anders...has answered.

I don't pertain to any religion yet I do love to learn about them all and when it comes to trying to understand them, they seem to follow the same basic trend (Be kind, helpful, charity, etc.) But of course there are issues that bug me, so I start writing to places like this in order to learn. Here some (not all) muslims make the Qu'ran into "The book" yet doesn't that lead to confrontations? The Qu'ran is a continuation of the Tanakh and New Testament right? Neither are perfect so why is the Qu'ran any different?

 

[anders]

Scholars say that Islam draws heavily on the two other Abrahmic religions. Muslims of course claim that there is one perfect Qur'an in heaven, which has been rather accurately been written down by humans, and that the OT/NT are corruptions of this heavenly Qur'an.

Natually there will often be conflicting views when religions meet. Book religions will often claim that their book is the book. One counterexample is Sikhism, which tells you that "it is possible to be a good Muslim or a good Hindu, but it is difficult", and Baha'i also is very tolerant.

 

[Scott1]

curiousgirl,

I would agree with anders. It is usually very difficult to get members of different religions to talk to each other let alone agree on spiritual matters as important as the written word of God.

Asking this question in a debate or discussion forum might get a few more replies.

Peace be with you,
Scott

 

[_salam_]

Arabic is surely an ancient tongue with a beautiful history but to think they were like that from the beginning of time... ( I have many muslim friends that say this). It makes sense to believe that it has been alter over the centuries along with hebrew and aramaic/greek.
"Originally, the short vowels were not written; nor were the pronunciation marks, such as the shadda, the sign for doubling a consonant. As Islam spread to non-Arabic speakers, however, this writing system was revised. Dots, or diacritical marks, were added to distinguish different letters that use the same shape, and pronunciation marks and short vowels began to be used consistently to avoid ambiguity. By 750, the script had been forged into an accurate writing tool and had already acquired aesthetic associations."
If you want to read more here's the link

http://www.zakariya.net/resources/music.html

Now don't get me wrong i'm not trying to bad mouth your religion or anything I'm just trying to get something straight here. No religion is 100% right just like neither are 100% wrong. God send us messages perfectly but we're not

As a Muslim and someone who is learning Arabic I hope I can help to shed some light onto your question. Has Arabic changed since its beginning, probably, but most likely only in its earliest stages as a language. By the time the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received his revelations from God, Arabic would have most certainly been well established. In the article that you posted it says that the short vowels were not written; nor the pronunciation marks and that these marks were only later added when other people tried to learn the language. My guess is that these marks were added only to make it easier on the ones that were trying to learn Arabic. I have to say, as a person who is learning it, that if those marks were not there it would make learning the language a lot harder, by having to memorize all the different pronunciations for different words. However for a person who would have grown up with Arabic as their native language I don’t think it would be that difficult for them to understand. In English we have tons of words that are spelled or sound the same but depending on the context in which they’re used it can change the way they’re pronounced or what they mean. Let us take the word “read” for example. If I were to say “I read the book” and then say “go read the book” the words would be pronounced differently because of the context in which they were used, but they are still spelled the same. Another example would be the word “bat”. If I said “I swung the bat” you would most likely believe I’m talking about a baseball bat and not the animal. This word is spelled and pronounced the same but means two completely different things depending on the context. For a person who has grown up with English this isn’t something hard to understand, while for a person who is learning English as a second language it could be very difficult. I would assume the same thing for the Arabic language as well. In fact a lot of people that speak Arabic fluently don’t always write down every little pronunciation mark, but what they have written is still comprehendible to a person that knows Arabic. So from all of this I would propose that the adding of the marks was just a clarification thing and it had no effect on the language as a whole.



The other point I would like to make is that whether or not Arabic changed before Muhammad (pbuh) received the revelations from God is irrelevant because we know that Arabic hasn’t changed since then because we have the Qur’an. When Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would receive his revelations He would have a scribe write it down immediately. Also Muhammad (pbuh) would memorize these revelations as He received them and would have His followers memorize them as well, which probably came in handy since He, and most likely the majority of His followers, couldn’t read. Even after Muhammad (pbuh) in later times, when education was better and more people could read, it was still tradition to memorize the Qur’an. In fact today out of the approximate 1.7 billion Muslims over 9 million have memorized the Qur’an in its original language, in its entirety, and without error!!! So because of these facts we know that the Qur’an hasn’t been changed since it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and therefore we know that Arabic hasn’t changed since then either.



I hope this has helped to answer your questions, and if you have anymore regarding Islam I would be glad to answer them for you.

 

[croak]

Arabic is surely an ancient tongue with a beautiful history but to think they were like that from the beginning of time... ( I have many muslim friends that say this). It makes sense to believe that it has been alter over the centuries along with hebrew and aramaic/greek.
"Originally, the short vowels were not written; nor were the pronunciation marks, such as the shadda, the sign for doubling a consonant. As Islam spread to non-Arabic speakers, however, this writing system was revised. Dots, or diacritical marks, were added to distinguish different letters that use the same shape, and pronunciation marks and short vowels began to be used consistently to avoid ambiguity. By 750, the script had been forged into an accurate writing tool and had already acquired aesthetic associations."
If you want to read more here's the link

http://www.zakariya.net/resources/music.html

Now don't get me wrong i'm not trying to bad mouth your religion or anything I'm just trying to get something straight here. No religion is 100% right just like neither are 100% wrong. God send us messages perfectly but we're not

Well, I would like to tell you something. Arabic is one language, but it has many dialects. For example, in Lebanon we say Keefak, in Kuwait they say schloonich. Both mean "how are you." Also, in Lebanon we say hayk, in Egypt they say keda. Both mean "like this." It was the same story in Prophet Muhammed (saas) 's time. So, in the Qur'an, they added things. Actually, this wasn't changing the text. It was making it easier for people of other areas to speak the dialect of Prophet Muhammed (saas). In other words, we are pronouncing it just like he did 1,400 years ago!

The vowel marks and whatever didn't change how it was said, just how it was written. Try understanding Arabic without them. :bonk:

 

[QuakingAlgerian]

Well, I would like to tell you something. Arabic is one language, but it has many dialects. For example, in Lebanon we say Keefak, in Kuwait they say schloonich. Both mean "how are you." Also, in Lebanon we say hayk, in Egypt they say keda. Both mean "like this." It was the same story in Prophet Muhammed (saas) 's time. So, in the Qur'an, they added things. Actually, this wasn't changing the text. It was making it easier for people of other areas to speak the dialect of Prophet Muhammed (saas). In other words, we are pronouncing it just like he did 1,400 years ago!

The vowel marks and whatever didn't change how it was said, just how it was written. Try understanding Arabic without them. :bonk:

I am not Muslim but I am Arab (from Algeria) and I can say that this is certainly true! In Algeria often times, people will say "Bonjour' or they will use Italian or French roots for many words (not using ktb for "writing" related things but using "scrib" instead). I was not able to understand Egyptian television or Egyptian people (I still cannot!) or for a long time Lebonese people because of their accent. It is like trying to understand an Australian with a heavy accent when you just learn English sometimes. I am getting better at understanding other dialects from listening to television and radio programs though. My girlfriend's parents (Maronite from Lebanon) when I first met them, could not speak English and I could not understand their Arabic so we ended up having to use French for a while before I got used to their accent. LOL!

 

[croak]

I talked to someone Algerian, and even some words I read don't exist in the Lebanese dialect.
Try learning khaleej.

Schloonich? Kayf halich?

And now for a little Lebanese:
Bonjour, 'andak pantalon aswad? Ma fee? Okay, wayn fee? Brooh 'al autostrade, ba'dayn bit louf 'a shmal? Ok, merci, bye! ----Three languages.

 

[croak]

We have an accent? You guys have an accent!

 

[TamerAhmad]

Now don't get me wrong i'm not trying to bad mouth your religion or anything I'm just trying to get something straight here. No religion is 100% rights just like neither are 100% wrong. God send us messages perfectly but we're not

Ok now...
I hope YOU don’t get ME wrong.....you are kind of contradicting yourself there girl, you said no religion is 100% right but then you said that God sent us perfect messages, now what I know is that God is perfect, I can understand that we are not but we didn’t make the religion, it was God who sent it " perfectly" so how can no religion be 100% right?
If we take his religion and change it around adding to the book or omitting from it then Ok it wouldn’t be perfect cause its not Gods religion anymore but if we were to take it as it is , keep it that way and follow it than it would be perfect and we would be near perfect too if we were to stick to it .
The argument now would change to be if Islam, cause that's the religion I am talking about now, if it is perfect or not.... lets see now..... Islam is a religion that governs all aspects of life , it is not just for worship in the mosque , but it goes into every detail of life from the way you eat , drink , walk , talk ,sleep ,work , trade get to know a woman , get engaged , marry , get kids , raise the kids , educate ,get sick , heal , socialize ,travel, deal with other religions ,with different ppl , rule the country , die and inherit .....and that’s just to give you some examples or else I would take all day writing what Islam gets involved in ... so it governs all these aspects of life perfectly and every one of them fits perfectly with everything else in the sense that you would never find any contradictions or problems in any way .....But then there’s the million dollar question which is : who would know this .... well I’ll only say this : a person who has read briefly about Islam can maybe sense some of this but then again maybe not , so to know this you would have to study Islam as in really get to know it well ,cause then and only then would you be able to tell if it were perfect or not , so I kindly say : study it before you include it in those not so perfect religions you are talking about or else omit it , just to be true and fair.
Before I go I ask you to think about this : In the past 10 years or so a famous marine scientist discovered that the sees and oceans of the world do not mix but are rather divided by a sort of barrier ( of water ) that prevents their waters from mixing .... We have this and many similar scientific facts mentioned in the Koran as one kind of proof that this Book is really from Allah who created the sees and the Oceans and thus knows about them, because Prophet Mohammad could never have known this for himself ... ever. Think about it......and if you want me to send you the site that tells you about it scientifically and then tells what the Koran said exactly about it and in which verse. I’ll send it.