Archangel Michael: Arson Dialectic

[Abishai100]

Michael is an archangel in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans refer to him as "Saint Michael the Archangel" and also as "Saint Michael". Orthodox Christiansrefer to him as the "Taxiarch Archangel Michael" or simply "Archangel Michael".

Michael is mentioned three times in the Book of Daniel, once as a "great prince who stands up for the children of your people". The idea that Michael was the advocate of the Jews became so prevalent that in spite of the rabbinical prohibition against appealing to angels as intermediaries between God and his people, Michael came to occupy a certain place in the Jewish liturgy.

In the New Testament, Michael leads God's armies against Satan's forces in the Book of Revelation, where during the war in heaven, he defeats Satan. In the Epistle of Jude, Michael is specifically referred to as "the archangel Michael". Christian sanctuaries to Michael appeared in the 4th century, when he was first seen as a healing angel, and then over time as a protector and the leader of the army of God against the forces of evil (source of information from top: Wikipedia).

Michael is seen as a calming force and therefore brings power to the forces of heaven against the anarchistic forces of rebellious Satan.

If Satan is seen as a spiritual arsonist, then Michael is the ultimate firefighter, putting out the flames of a proverbial carnal/vain inferno. Such imagery is what "The Inferno" (Dante) is all about which is why the poem is so iconic in the history of world literature.

We can see Michael as a figurehead defending the buttresses of bridges made with good intentions but made vulnerable by the insinuations of the Devil and by wayward/drunken men.

Michael can therefore be seen as someone who literally neutralizes unwanted arson.




The Inferno (Dante)

 

[Lyndon]

Quite a few Christians think Jesus was the incarnation of the Archangel Michael come to earth, which would explain how the archangel being the "Son of God"and Jesus being the "Son of God" but not God himself, rather the head angel. I think Jehovah's witnesses might see it that way, correct me if I am wrong..

 

[Abishai100]

Manslayer Matchsticks


Here's another hypothesis (involving macro-sociology):

Michael must handle not only Satan (or the dragon) and the AntiChrist at the end of days, but he must also contend with the dreaded manslayer (described in the Book of Numbers) who is suggested to rise to ominous power and grant horns/thrones to the Devil.

Popular American horror films such as A Nightmare on Elm Street and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre present dramatic images of hideous super-serial killers such as Freddy Krueger (a ghoul who invades dreams and kills people with his glove which has attached knife-blades) and Leatherface (a chainsaw-wielding cannibal who wears a mask made out of the skin of dead human corpses).

Images of murder and murderers in popular cinema and the arts reveal a human curiosity about anarchism dialogue (or terrorism, if you like). There should be a way to coordinate ideas about general turbulence (or pedestrian paranoia) with ideas about elemental cataclysm (i.e., wildfires, arson, etc.). After all, it is the Christian archangel Michael's duty to destroy pain, is it not?

 

[Serenity Now]

Quite a few Christians think Jesus was the incarnation of the Archangel Michael come to earth, which would explain how the archangel being the "Son of God"and Jesus being the "Son of God" but not God himself, rather the head angel. I think Jehovah's witnesses might see it that way, correct me if I am wrong..

Jehovah witnesses are not Christians:

1. You are correct they do not believe Jesus is the son of God.
2. They do not baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

No doubt they have taken Christian elements but the end result is not Christianity.

 

[Lyndon]

Pot calling the kettle black, EH??

 

[Serenity Now]

Pot calling the kettle black, EH??

Explain...your question isn't readily apparent? No worries thick skin here.

 

[Lyndon]

Jehovah's Witnesses act more like Christians than most Christians I know.

 

[Serenity Now]

Jehovah's Witnesses act more like Christians than most Christians I know.

The fact they aren't Christian doesn't make them bad people. I am flattered you equate the two tough and you are correct many Christians don't live up to their teaching.

 

[Lyndon]

A christian is a follower of Jesus, period, not a follower of Jesus that believes Jesus is God..

 

[Serenity Now]

A christian is a follower of Jesus, period, not a follower of Jesus that believes Jesus is God..

Actually that is incorrect. It maybe your personal belief but academically sects like JW's and LDS would not be considered Christians.

Christianity has been around for 2,000 years and was founded by the Catholic Church. To be considered Christian you to need to believe and be baptized in the name of the Father, SON and Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity).

 

[Lyndon]

Complete rubbish, but coming from a Catholic, I guess it makes sense to you.

 

[Serenity Now]

Complete rubbish, but coming from a Catholic, I guess it makes sense to you.

Find proof other than your opinion to disputed my statement then. The fact is you will not be able to.

 

[Lyndon]

You want me to find proof that Catholics are not the only Christians, Oh brother.

 

[Serenity Now]

You want me to find proof that Catholics are not the only Christians, Oh brother.

No I stated as much. Find proof that JWs are Christians, that isn't JWs. Here educate yourself:

http://www.equip.org/article/are-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-3/

 

[Deeje]

No I stated as much. Find proof that JWs are Christians, that isn't JWs. Here educate yourself:

I really believe that you need to educate yourself SN. A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, not the pope.

A Christian is one who refuses to participate in violence and bloodshed because Jesus taught us to 'love our enemies'.
Catholics killed their own brothers in two World Wars because of failing to follow Christ's teachings. (Matt 5:43-45)

1 John 4:20, 21:
"If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also."

Isaiah also wrote at Isaiah 1:15:
"So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers,
I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood."

Does the church obey Christ or their governments? (Acts 5:29)

A true Christian is one who obeys the Christ in ALL things. They follow the Bible's command to avoid idolatry, which means NOT MAKING images to use in worship. (Exodus 2:4; 1 Cor 10:14) The Catholic Church is saturated in idolatry.

The first Christians had no earthly priesthood. Their priesthood was future in heavenly rulership with Christ. (Rev 20:6)
They had no temples, but simply met for Bible instruction and mutual encouragement in small manageable congregations. There were no formal rituals, no liturgy, no holy water, no infant baptism, no confessional, no absolution by any human, no fancy dress in purple and scarlet or fish shaped hats, no religious titles and no pope. Those appointed to take the lead in the congregations were spiritually qualified men who were in positions of responsibility, not power.

You want an education? Ask all the Catholic people who have become Jehovah's Witnesses in Italy why they did so in the very heart of Roman Catholicism. They found out that the church lied to their flocks for centuries.

If you are celebrating Easter this weekend, you will be declaring before God that you are NOT a Christian. "Easter" is the name of a pagan fertility goddess; her symbols are rabbits and eggs. What has a pagan goddess got to do with Jesus Christ? Who needs an education in the truth here?

In the words of the Apostle Paul...
2 Cor 6:14-18:
"Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,

“I will dwell in them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
17 “Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord.
“And do not touch what is unclean;
And I will welcome you.
18 “And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty."

A complete separation is necessary from spiritually "unclean" practices. Becoming "sons and daughters" of God depends on it.

 

[Serenity Now]

First - A Christian is a person that believes that Jesus was the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity. JWs do not.

Second - The Catholic Church is 100% Christ centric not Pope centric. The heart and soul of Catholcism is the Mass, a Eucharistic celebration, which is all about the real presence of Christ.

Third - The Catholic Church and Orthodox Church were pretty much the only Christian Churches for 1500 years.

Fourth - There are 2 billion Christians on the planet. 1.2 billion are Catholic, 300 million are Orthodox and Protestants only make up about 500 million.

Fifth - Without the Catholic Church there would be no bible. The Church is who collected the books, protected them and decided what was canon.

Other Notables:

- Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization of the planet and no one will ever surpass it.

- Catholic Church is the founder of the western hospital system and the largest non- government healthcare provider on the planet.

- Catholic Church is the founder of the western education system and the largest non-government educator on the planet.

You can spew venom at the Church all day but please note none of it sticks.

 

[Lyndon]

A whole bunch of lies about the early Christian church here, The catholic church wasn't founded till about 450AD, there was no pope before then for instance, there were many followers of Christ that weren't Catholic, problem is the early Catholic church exterminated most of them, look up genocide of Early Christian churches.

Sorry but you don't get to define who or what a Christian is, look up Christian in a dictionary, its not what you think. Defending a religion that has molested more children than any other religion is kind of ridiculous right now, its this notion of the Divine right of the Catholic church that gave those priests the opportunity to molest children, no matter what other good they may have done.

 

[Serenity Now]

A whole bunch of lies about the early Christian church here, The catholic church wasn't founded till about 450AD, there was no pope before then for instance, there were many followers of Christ that weren't Catholic, problem is the early Catholic church exterminated most of them, look up genocide of Early Christian churches.

Sorry but you don't get to define who or what a Christian is, look up Christian in a dictionary, its not what you think. Defending a religion that has molested more children than any other religion is kind of ridiculous right now, its this notion of the Divine right of the Catholic church that gave those priests the opportunity to molest children, no matter what other good they may have done.

The molesting of Children is an absolute abomination. Studies have shown that approximately 4% of the population has pediphilia tendencies and that is the percentage found in priest, so statically all professions will have about the same percentage unfortunately, therefore your assertion that it is greater within the Church is false.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches trace their apostolic succession to Saint Peter and can trace that succession through today, so another of your assertions is grossly incorrect. The Papal office has stood unbroken for over 2000 years.

As for your ridiculous assertion of genocide by the Catholic Church will only be found on incorrect and ignorant atheist hate sites.

 

[Deeje]

First - A Christian is a person that believes that Jesus was the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity. JWs do not.

The trinity is a Catholic teaching, not a teaching of Jesus Christ. Can you provide a single scripture where either the Father or Christ claimed that Jesus was Almighty God?
Jesus called himself "God's son" not "God the Son". (John 10:31-36)

Second - The Catholic Church is 100% Christ centric not Pope centric. The heart and soul of Catholcism is the Mass, a Eucharistic celebration, which is all about the real presence of Christ.

If the Catholic Church was "100% Christ centric", then it would follow the teachings of Christ...I have shown you that it doesn't. It follows its own teachings. Man-made tradition is what Christ criticized the Pharisees for.

Did Jesus celebrate Mass? The celebration of the Lord's Supper was an annual event that replaced the Jewish Passover. It wasn't something that was taken whenever people felt like it. Nor were the bread and wine magically transformed into the literal flesh and blood of Jesus...that would have made them cannibals and drinkers of blood. Jesus would never have told his Jewish audience to break the law of God. (Lev 17:10-12)

Where were the priests and nuns in original Christianity? Did Jesus tell the priests to cloister themselves away in monasteries with vows of silence? Or did he tell his disciples to go out to the people and preach in every nation? (Matt 24:14; 28:19, 20)

Third - The Catholic Church and Orthodox Church were pretty much the only Christian Churches for 1500 years.

And what a woeful record those 1500 years proved to be. Why do you think Luther took his stand? It created a revolution! People were sick of the abuse of power.This long record is not exactly something to be proud of.
Jesus and his apostles foretold that after the death of the apostles an apostasy would take place. (2 Thess 2:3-12)
"Weeds" of counterfeit Christianity would be sown in the world, almost choking the "wheat" out of existence. (Matt 13:36-43; 2 Tim 4:3, 4; 2 Pet 2:1-3) It is not hard to see the Catholic church's role in this.

Fourth - There are 2 billion Christians on the planet. 1.2 billion are Catholic, 300 million are Orthodox and Protestants only make up about 500 million.

Calling yourself a Catholic doesn't make you a Christian. Jesus was not part of a majority and he said that "few" are actually on the road to life. (Matt 7:13, 14) Huge numbers are not only meaningless, they are proof that the Catholic church is not part of the "few".

Fifth - Without the Catholic Church there would be no bible. The Church is who collected the books, protected them and decided what was canon.

Since when is God's word a Catholic production? How arrogant! God can use even his enemies to accomplish his will....when it was his time to produce the full scriptures, HE did it, not the church.

It is noteworthy that it was the Roman Catholic church that burned people at the stake for having the temerity to want to read God's word for themselves. The Reformation at least accomplished the release of God's word to the common man in his own language. If left up to the church, who knows what might have happened? We might still be in the dark ages. They were "dark" for a reason.

Other Notables:

- Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization of the planet and no one will ever surpass it.

And in those charitable organizations like orphanages and Catholic boarding schools came the most heinous stories of child abuse that make decent people cringe. It went on for centuries apparently unnoticed. The church is still trying to dodge compensation payments to their victims. This wasn't an odd case here and there but a systemic problem spanning continents and many Catholic institutions.The church itself became a haven for deviates, in positions of trust, with free access to defenseless children to do whatever they pleased.

- Catholic Church is the founder of the western hospital system and the largest non- government healthcare provider on the planet.

Its a shame they don't use a bit of their stashed wealth to improve the hospital systems they started then. I don't know of too many countries where the hospital system isn't in crisis...do you?

- Catholic Church is the founder of the western education system and the largest non-government educator on the planet.

You mean those Catholic schools where pedophile priests and homosexuals lurked for decades unchecked? Where the nuns were complicit in the abuse because they enjoyed meting out some very extreme corporal punishment? Have you read the stories....those offenses even committed in Australia have been made public and its a shameful tale of unchristian conduct that no church can ignore or excuse. Where was Jesus? My brother in law worked in Catholic schools doing repairs and maintenance...he said that the children attending those "Christian" schools were worse than the kids in public schools as far as their conduct and language were concerned. What is the point of Catholic education if they don't produce better behaved children?

You can spew venom at the Church all day but please note none of it sticks.

I am not "spewing venom"...I am simply telling the truth. Perhaps none of it sticks to those who have their heads in the sand? That leaves a very vulnerable part of their anatomy exposed.

 

[Lyndon]

The molesting of Children is an absolute abomination. Studies have shown that approximately 4% of the population has pediphilia tendencies and that is the percentage found in priest, so statically all professions will have about the same percentage unfortunately, therefore your assertion that it is greater within the Church is false.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches trace their apostolic succession to Saint Peter and can trace that succession through today, so another of your assertions is grossly incorrect. The Papal office has stood unbroken for over 2000 years.

As for your ridiculous assertion of genocide by the Catholic Church will only be found on incorrect and ignorant atheist hate sites.

Again, more lies, You can claim that St Peter was the first Pope, but fact is there were no more Popes till about 500AD when the Catholic church was founded.