Are American "Independent" Voters Truly Independent?

[Pogo]

This is not true in open primary states like Washington, where I live. I can switch parties to vote for an individual candidate in any primary, but I can only get one vote for a particular office.

lucky you.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Do you consider yourself an independent?

No, not "an independent" or "Independent." Unaffiliated liberal and progressive is most accurate.

I don't actually consider myself American any more except in a technical sense (I have an American passport and file American taxes, but I have no skin in the game any longer). I'm like @Evangelicalhumanist and @SkepticThinker - a concerned outsider looking in.

the duopoly obviously is destroying this country.

Just one party is anti-American. I do not blame the Democrats for being unable to make America a better country than it is. I blame Republican voters.

I've shared my analogy before. America is like a business with two brothers and equal partners each having the power to hire an operations manager, but one brother is incompetent and keeps contracting bad actors and even criminals that see the business as their private ATM. Such a business may prosper at times when the sane brother makes the choices, but before long, the insane one will be hiring the chief executive officer, and the business will suffer.

That business will never be great, but the fault doesn't lie with the partnership ("duopoly"). It lies with whoever keeps hiring the incompetent. The one brother gave the business to Trump and the business fell through the floor. Then the other brother got him fired and replaced him with a competent CEO and the business prospered again, but the incompetent brother wants the failed CEO back. This is also the brother that hired Reagan and Bush II.

As for me, I used to work for that business but realized that I didn't want to be affected by that craziness any more than necessary, and so quit and was hired by another business.

 

[Spice]

No, not "an independent" or "Independent." Unaffiliated liberal and progressive is most accurate.

I don't actually consider myself American any more except in a technical sense (I have an American passport and file American taxes, but I have no skin in the game any longer). I'm like @Evangelicalhumanist and @SkepticThinker - a concerned outsider looking in.

Just one party is anti-American. I do not blame the Democrats for being unable to make America a better country than it is. I blame Republican voters.

I've shared my analogy before. America is like a business with two brothers and equal partners each having the power to hire an operations manager, but one brother is incompetent and keeps contracting bad actors and even criminals that see the business as their private ATM. Such a business may prosper at times when the sane brother makes the choices, but before long, the insane one will be hiring the chief executive officer, and the business will suffer.

That business will never be great, but the fault doesn't lie with the partnership ("duopoly"). It lies with whoever keeps hiring the incompetent. The one brother gave the business to Trump and the business fell through the floor. Then the other brother got him fired and replaced him with a competent CEO and the business prospered again, but the incompetent brother wants the failed CEO back. This is also the brother that hired Reagan and Bush II.

As for me, I used to work for that business but realized that I didn't want to be affected by that craziness any more than necessary, and so quit and was hired by another business.

And as a side note: Are you happy with the outcome of the recent presidential election in your adopted country?

 

[Regiomontanus]

In online discussion forums, Americans are increasingly prone to labeling themselves as "Independent" rather than "Democrat" or "Republican". Sometimes people take that as a sign that people are abandoning the two major political parties, although you would not know that from looking at how they vote.

See this short Pew Research article from 2019:

Political Independents: Who They Are, What They Think​

See the rest of the article for more detail. The article seems to suggest that people who regularly write posts about political topics and call themselves "Independents" are not likely to be politically independent.

Do you consider yourself an independent? If so, do you consider yourself to be truly politically independent? Why do you think this trend for more people to claim to be Independent is happening? Thoughts?

I am registered as an independent but consider myself a socialist. I really don't like either major party but will vote for Harris, since Trump is such an ***.

 

[Copernicus]

No, not "an independent" or "Independent." Unaffiliated liberal and progressive is most accurate.

I don't actually consider myself American any more except in a technical sense (I have an American passport and file American taxes, but I have no skin in the game any longer). I'm like @Evangelicalhumanist and @SkepticThinker - a concerned outsider looking in.
...

I'm not sure how to interpret your reply. Can you still vote in American elections? If so, then that would make you more than a concerned outsider, especially since whoever wins can affect your taxes. I don't recall what you've said about your situation in the past, but I suspect what you mean is that you are living outside of the US--what we call an "expat". If you can vote, but choose to abstain, that still makes you an American voter, even if you really don't care about the outcome. And the US economy and politics has such strong implications for other countries in the world, that it is hard for me to imagine that you wouldn't want to vote. After all, you have expressed strong opinions about US politics in this forum (most of which are in harmony with mine, I think). However, you can still be an American citizen but not have any representative in a US government that you can vote for. Residency determines eligibility to cast a ballot.

 

[Copernicus]

I am registered as an independent but consider myself a socialist. I really don't like either major party but will vote for Harris, since Trump is such an ***.

This is what the Pew Research project was about--unaffiliated voters that call themselves independents but still vote reliably for candidates from one of the two major parties or else advocate for them, even if choosing not to cast a ballot.

 

[Pogo]

This is what the Pew Research project was about--unaffiliated voters that call themselves independents but still vote reliably for candidates from one of the two major parties or else advocate for them, even if choosing not to cast a ballot.

Yes, the pew study makes the point that "true" independents are exceedingly rare,

Short of not having any opinion on anything, which I would not define as politically independant, any given person will have some general leaning.

The current situation is unusual in that it is not about typical conservative liberal proposals for the governance of the country but whether you accept the statements of the people involved as representative of reality and if so, is it a reality you wish to live in.

 

[anna.]

In online discussion forums, Americans are increasingly prone to labeling themselves as "Independent" rather than "Democrat" or "Republican". Sometimes people take that as a sign that people are abandoning the two major political parties, although you would not know that from looking at how they vote.

See this short Pew Research article from 2019:

Political Independents: Who They Are, What They Think​

See the rest of the article for more detail. The article seems to suggest that people who regularly write posts about political topics and call themselves "Independents" are not likely to be politically independent.

Do you consider yourself an independent? If so, do you consider yourself to be truly politically independent? Why do you think this trend for more people to claim to be Independent is happening? Thoughts?

I'm not sure how to answer the poll. I consider myself independent, small i. Not Independent Party.

California calls it NPP: No Party Preference. I've been NPP since 2012, Republican before that for over 30 years. Since changing to NPP, I've voted Democratic. I don't fit solidly within the Democratic Party even though I vote straight Dem ticket, and while I'd vote for a decent GOP candidate, I don't think there are any more of them left. The GOP is the MAGA party now.

In the California primary, the Democratic Party opens their primary to non-Dems, while the GOP (unless something's changed) does not. That makes it easy for me to vote in the primary at this point in time; should there ever be a GOP candidate I'd ever want to support, I'd have to wait until the general to vote for them (unless the GOP changes their primary rules).

 

[anna.]

In the US, you have to pick a party in order to be eligible to vote in a primary. Dems da rulz in most Statz.

In California as NPP I can vote in the Democratic primary because they have it open to non-party voters. I cannot vote in the Republican primary because they don't.

 

[Pogo]

In California as NPP I can vote in the Democratic primary because they have it open to non-party voters. I cannot vote in the Republican primary because they don't.

Sorry, I meant to mention that it varies state to state and even beyond that apparently. assuming NPP means No Political Party, I could go with that, but I am registered Republican because in my red district that gives me some power.

 

[anna.]

Sorry, I meant to mention that it varies state to state and even beyond that apparently. assuming NPP means No Political Party, I could go with that, but I am registered Republican because in my red district that gives me some power.

NPP means No Party Preference, but yours works, as does No Particular Party.

Your reason for being registered R makes sense, but I was surprised!

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

And as a side note: Are you happy with the outcome of the recent presidential election in your adopted country?

Yes. It sounds like you're familiar with her. She's a climate scientist by trade before entering politics, which I respect: Claudia Sheinbaum - Wikipedia

I don't recall what you've said about your situation in the past, but I suspect what you mean is that you are living outside of the US--what we call an "expat".

Yes, I'm an American living abroad (Mexico).

Can you still vote in American elections?

Yes, but only for president and vice-president. We don't have state anymore. Our only American address is in Laredo, TX, where we've never lived. It's for purchases that go through customs. My wife just bought a ukelele out of San Diego and had it shipped to Laredo, where a service we've contracted with for fifteen years took it across the border for us and delivered it to where we live. Maybe I'm eligible to vote in Texas, but I'm not interested in voting in solidly red states.

It might be possible to vote in the last state we lived in, Missouri, but we only lived there from 1998-2009, and it's a pretty red state. Plus, it scrubbed me (a registered Democrat in a very red region) from its voting rolls in 2004 and 2006, so I have no interest in what happens there and almost no contact with any Missouri resident I knew.

If so, then that would make you more than a concerned outsider, especially since whoever wins can affect your taxes.

That doesn't matter much to me. The more taxes one pays, the more he's made. Our "income" is investment interest and Social Security, which more than covers the $30,000 USD or so cost of living we have. Our interest income has had a significant bump with the States raising interest rates to curb inflation, and so our taxes are higher now than ever since retiring, but that is more than offset by the increased interest earned, so how can I mind?

Yes, I can still be affected by what goes on in America, but not much unless somebody like Trump attempts to invade Mexico or seize our bank accounts (both American and Mexican).

But I feel like I am no longer American in any meaningful sense, just a in legal sense, and of course, I lived my first 55 years there, so culturally as well. But we don't visit any more since the last of our four parents passed away, which was 2012 for me and 2015 for my wife (parent visits were made alone).

You can see why I consider myself a voyeur now. I follow American politics because it is interesting to me, not because it's important, and you are correct that I am quite passionate in my political expression, but that just who I am. My passions about organized religion in the States are strong as well, but it also doesn't affect me here in Mexico, where my only interaction with religion is hearing the church bells every daylight hour and Ave Maria at noon, as well as those infernal bottle rockets they send up to celebrate church holidays that terrorize one of my dogs.

 

[Pogo]

Yes. It sounds like you're familiar with her. She's a climate scientist by trade before entering politics, which I respect: Claudia Sheinbaum - Wikipedia

Yes, I'm an American living abroad (Mexico).

Yes, but only for president and vice-president. We don't have state anymore. Our only American address is in Laredo, TX, where we've never lived. It's for purchases that go through customs. My wife just bought a ukelele out of San Diego and had it shipped to Laredo, where a service we've contracted with for fifteen years took it across the border for us and delivered it to where we live. Maybe I'm eligible to vote in Texas, but I'm not interested in voting in solidly red states.

It might be possible to vote in the last state we lived in, Missouri, but we only lived there from 1998-2009, and it's a pretty red state. Plus, it scrubbed me (a registered Democrat in a very red region) from its voting rolls in 2004 and 2006, so I have no interest in what happens there and almost no contact with any Missouri resident I knew.

That doesn't matter much to me. The more taxes one pays, the more he's made. Our "income" is investment interest and Social Security, which more than covers the $30,000 USD or so cost of living we have. Our interest income has had a significant bump with the States raising interest rates to curb inflation, and so our taxes are higher now than ever since retiring, but that is more than offset by the increased interest earned, so how can I mind?

Yes, I can still be affected by what goes on in America, but not much unless somebody like Trump attempts to invade Mexico or seize our bank accounts (both American and Mexican).

But I feel like I am no longer American in any meaningful sense, just a in legal sense, and of course, I lived my first 55 years there, so culturally as well. But we don't visit any more since the last of our four parents passed away, which was 2012 for me and 2015 for my wife (parent visits were made alone).

You can see why I consider myself a voyeur now. I follow American politics because it is interesting to me, not because it's important, and you are correct that I am quite passionate in my political expression, but that just who I am. My passions about organized religion in the States are strong as well, but it also doesn't affect me here in Mexico, where my only interaction with religion is hearing the church bells every daylight hour and Ave Maria at noon, as well as those infernal bottle rockets they send up to celebrate church holidays that terrorize one of my dogs.

Voyeur?

 

[Spice]

Yes. It sounds like you're familiar with her. She's a climate scientist by trade before entering politics, which I respect: Claudia Sheinbaum - Wikipedia

I ask because at the time I was still involved with a local ESL group of Mexican farm workers -- degreed, not unskilled -- and we had a class, they using only English of course, discussing politics. They, too, we're very pleased with the outcome, especially with her expected to follow the previous administration policies closely. However, when we switched to U.S. politics, they (only 2 participants that night) were supporting Trump. The only reason that could be expressed was because he was a businessman. I couldn't help but wonder about the comparisons from a Mexican citizen POV.

 

[Copernicus]

There are a couple of technical points I'd like to make. They aren't super important, just nitpicks really.

• There is no "Independent" party in the US. You may be able to vote NPP, but that doesn't make you a member of a party. Independent voters do not hold caucuses and you cannot give them political donations. They don't campaign. So, technically, they are not a political party.
  
  
• As I understand the Pew research (and may be wrong), you don't have to vote to call yourself an Independent. You just have to claim no party affiliation, but regularly lean towards one of the major parties. You can be a registered Democrat or Republican (not an Independent) but still not vote a straight party ticket.

 

[fantome profane]

Another Canadian here, and I won't vote in this poll. This question really only comes up in the American context. In Canada only a small percentage of voters actually belong to a Political Party, and those would be hard core Party members. And I think world wide it is more common for people not to be registered members of any political party. The fact that in America you are expected to belong to a party might be part of what makes you so polarized.

Just a thought.

 

[anna.]

There are a couple of technical points I'd like to make. They aren't super important, just nitpicks really.

• There is no "Independent" party in the US. You may be able to vote NPP, but that doesn't make you a member of a party. Independent voters do not hold caucuses and you cannot give them political donations. They don't campaign. So, technically, they are not a political party.
  
  
• As I understand the Pew research (and may be wrong), you don't have to vote to call yourself an Independent. You just have to claim no party affiliation, but regularly lean towards one of the major parties. You can be a registered Democrat or Republican (not an Independent) but still not vote a straight party ticket.

Qualified Political Parties :: California Secretary of State

Find information regarding qualified political parties here.

www.sos.ca.gov

American Independent Party​

• Victor Marani, State Chairman
• P.O. Box 1479
• Freedom, CA 95019
• (831) 684-6167
• [email protected]
• www.aipca.vote

Democratic Party​

• Rusty Hicks, Chair
• 1830 9th St.
• Sacramento, CA 95811
• (916) 442-5707
• [email protected]
• www.cadem.org

Green Party​

• Jared Laiti, Liaison
• 2221 21st St.
• Sacramento, CA 95818
• (916) 549-6788
• [email protected]
• www.cagreens.org

Libertarian Party​

• Adrian F Malagon, State Chairperson
• 428 J St., Suite 400
• Sacramento, CA 95814
• (916) 446-1776
• [email protected]
• www.ca.lp.org

Peace and Freedom Party​

• Kevin Akin, State Chairperson
• 20212 Harvard Way
• Riverside, CA 92507
• (951) 675-2813
• [email protected]
• www.peaceandfreedom.org

Republican Party​

• Jessica Patterson, State Chairperson
• 1001 K St., 4th Floor
• Sacramento, CA 95814
• (916) 448-9496
• [email protected]
• www.cagop.org

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, not "an independent" or "Independent." Unaffiliated liberal and progressive is most accurate.

I don't actually consider myself American any more except in a technical sense (I have an American passport and file American taxes, but I have no skin in the game any longer). I'm like @Evangelicalhumanist and @SkepticThinker - a concerned outsider looking in.

Just one party is anti-American. I do not blame the Democrats for being unable to make America a better country than it is. I blame Republican voters.

I've shared my analogy before. America is like a business with two brothers and equal partners each having the power to hire an operations manager, but one brother is incompetent and keeps contracting bad actors and even criminals that see the business as their private ATM. Such a business may prosper at times when the sane brother makes the choices, but before long, the insane one will be hiring the chief executive officer, and the business will suffer.

That business will never be great, but the fault doesn't lie with the partnership ("duopoly"). It lies with whoever keeps hiring the incompetent. The one brother gave the business to Trump and the business fell through the floor. Then the other brother got him fired and replaced him with a competent CEO and the business prospered again, but the incompetent brother wants the failed CEO back. This is also the brother that hired Reagan and Bush II.

As for me, I used to work for that business but realized that I didn't want to be affected by that craziness any more than necessary, and so quit and was hired by another business.

Democrats are an incredibly repressive and restrictive party because they don't care one bit about you. They love power and control same as the Republicans, not to mention Democrats run the most oppressive and least free states in the entire nation that is undisputed by sensible intelligent people who actually know what freedom and liberty is.

Democrats can go to hell for what they have done to people.

 

[Spice]

On Friday, Kennedy suspended his independent campaign and endorsed Republican Donald Trump. He has since sought to withdraw his name from the ballot in states where the presidential race is expected to be close, including North Carolina.

I don't know the minuet details of political campaigns, but RFK Jr was certainly "campaigning" and was put on state ballots as an Independent candidate. And isn't Bernie Sanders an actual elected to office Independent?

RFK Jr. can't get off ballot in North Carolina, can't get back on it in New York

Robert F

abcnews.go.com

 

[Spice]

With all this great discussion we need to be mindful that the U.S. runs under State Election Boards. Options vary.
________________

8 Political Parties​

North Carolina recognizes eight political parties:

1. The Constitution Party
2. The Democratic Party
3. The Green Party
4. The Justice For All Party
5. The Libertarian Party
6. The No Labels Party
7. The Republican Party
8. The We The People Party

A voter may choose one political party or can decide not to register with a political party. If a voter does not register with a political party, the voter will be registered as unaffiliated.

In a partisan primary, voters affiliated with a political party may only vote their party’s ballot and may not vote in another party’s primary. For example, a registered Republican may only vote in the Republican Party primary. This remains true even if the party you are affiliated with does not have a primary.

Unaffiliated voters may choose any one political party’s ballot or a nonpartisan ballot (if available) in a primary election.

In a general election, voters may vote for the candidate(s) of their choice, regardless of party. North Carolina does not allow straight-ticket voting (also called straight-party voting).