Are atheists arrogant? immoral? angry?

[F1fan]

We all have faith in the things we rely on. We could hardly proceed without it.

Yeah, the type of faith that gravity keeps working. Xertainly not religious faith. We see all sorts of examples of people with religious faith and it fails miserably. It's unreliable, and little more than desperate hope.

Faith in God may be a step too far for some, especially perhaps, for those who have the most faith in what they see as their own super-rational intellect. But our own resources usually fail us at some point; for all our achievements, and especially for all our pride therein, we humans are not that powerful, individually or collectively.

Faith that nature will keep working as it does is highly reliable. Of course you can have faith in your buddy Bob, and that he will be able to kick his drug addiction, and maybe he finds the strength to do it. But your friend Jack keeps trying and gfailing over and over again. So your faith in friends is unpredictable, and is really just hope that they get their act together.

Faith in God? What does that mean? Your child is disagnosed with cancer and you have faith in God that a miracle will happen. But it is completely out of your hands, and sometimes the cancer is aggressive, and no miracle comes true. You believe God is capable of saving your child, but for some reason God just walks by and let's your child die. This is a gamble that can cause more harm, because how does a believer cope with the loss, and the abandonment of a God that was trusted to perform a miracle?

But if doctors some how save your baby, God gets all the credit. Of course, believers never ask why God created their baby with genes that cause cancer, but faith is about desperate hope, not wisdom and understanding.

For me the only difference between faith in human potential and endeavour, and faith in God, is that the latter will never let you down. But in either case, faith is at work in all our lives, every day.

Except faith is God is unrelible. See, even faith is God requires a faith that it is something it isn't.

 

[shunyadragon]

Of course. I didn't set out to change your mind. I just happened to randomly come across your post and I wanted to share some history of how he comes across to me. (Hopefully I qualify as a member of the group of others you mentioned!)

Changing minds is not the issue here. It is the attitudes of how people who believe differently

That does not justify the attitudes of @PureX that I have documented and most others have by far mostly agree.

Your responses have not addressed these issues.

 

[anna.]

Changing minds is not the issue here. It is the attitudes of how people who believe differently

Quite right. Just answering your comment about not changing your assessment by letting you know it wasn't my intention to change your assessment, only to say that how he comes across to me (one of the others) is different.

That does not justify the attitudes of @PureX that I have documented and most others have by far mostly agree

I'm not trying to justify anything. I've had a different experience than you, that's all.

 

[anna.]

Faith in God? What does that mean? Your child is disagnosed with cancer and you have faith in God that a miracle will happen. But it is completely out of your hands, and sometimes the cancer is aggressive, and no miracle comes true. You believe God is capable of saving your child, but for some reason God just walks by and let's your child die. This is a gamble that can cause more harm, because how does a believer cope with the loss, and the abandonment of a God that was trusted to perform a miracle?

But if doctors some how save your baby, God gets all the credit.

One of the biggest things I struggle with.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yeah, the type of faith that gravity keeps working. Xertainly not religious faith. We see all sorts of examples of people with religious faith and it fails miserably. It's unreliable, and little more than desperate hope.

Faith that nature will keep working as it does is highly reliable. Of course you can have faith in your buddy Bob, and that he will be able to kick his drug addiction, and maybe he finds the strength to do it. But your friend Jack keeps trying and gfailing over and over again. So your faith in friends is unpredictable, and is really just hope that they get their act together.

Faith in God? What does that mean? Your child is disagnosed with cancer and you have faith in God that a miracle will happen. But it is completely out of your hands, and sometimes the cancer is aggressive, and no miracle comes true. You believe God is capable of saving your child, but for some reason God just walks by and let's your child die. This is a gamble that can cause more harm, because how does a believer cope with the loss, and the abandonment of a God that was trusted to perform a miracle?

But if doctors some how save your baby, God gets all the credit. Of course, believers never ask why God created their baby with genes that cause cancer, but faith is about desperate hope, not wisdom and understanding.

Except faith is God is unrelible. See, even faith is God requires a faith that it is something it isn't.

Gravity doesn’t require faith. It’s effects are unavoidable.

However, the Apollo astronauts needed faith that the team who sent them too the moon and brought them back to earth, had done their calculations of the gravitational effects of the earth and moon correctly.

I have faith that should tragedy befall me or my loved ones, God would give me the courage to find serenity in the midst of calamity; and of course, were the tragedy of a medical nature, I would put my faith in doctors to do everything in their power to help.

 

[shunyadragon]

Gravity doesn’t require faith. It’s effects are unavoidable.

First rue statement I have heard form you in a while. The nature of physical existence and science, does not require the layman's genric definition of faith. It is nice to have faith in science, but science does not depend on faith.

However, the Apollo astronauts needed faith that the team who sent them too the moon and brought them back to earth, had done their calculations of the gravitational effects of the earth and moon correctly.

You are perpetually misusing the concept of faith in to too broad of layman's context when referring to the issues of science and religion as previously defined in terms of proper use of the English language..

 

[F1fan]

Gravity doesn’t require faith. It’s effects are unavoidable.

No kidding. But it illustrates a type of faith.

However, the Apollo astronauts needed faith that the team who sent them too the moon and brought them back to earth, had done their calculations of the gravitational effects of the earth and moon correctly.

Correct. There was a huge risk and a minor error or miscalculation could mean failure.

This means faith is hope and trust, not certainty.

I notice you completely ignore faith in God.

 

[Kathryn]

We live in a fallen world, and also, I don't claim that my intellect is superior to that of many others. I am just making it in my own world and way and it's working well for me. By the way, I find many people on this forum, not all, but many, to be arrogant and angry. All types, from atheist to theist to whatever.

 

[PureX]

And after all that, still no god appears.

Why would God 'appear' to anyone? How would we even know? What would God look like?

Your comment seems to imply that you are expecting there should be an appearance from God. But why? And how?

 

[PureX]

I responded to your list and you failed to answer my questions.

Your response only served to prove that everything I posted was in fact what most of you atheists here believe. And of course you wanted to argue about how righteous those beliefs are because you truly believe in them.

And that was my point. All this BS about "unbelief" is just a lie that so many atheists these days are telling themselves and anyone dumb enough to buy onto it, to try and hide their own beliefs while they attack everyone else's. It's the whole reason they so love and insist on the "kangaroo court" style debate gambit. It keeps them on the attack and their "opponent" on the hot seat. So they never get called on to back up their own beliefs the way they are always insisting that everyone else must.

 

[Firenze]

Why not? Christians claim their god appears to them all the time - although strangely it’s never where there are any other witnesses. Couldn’t they tell you that what your god looks like? Or do you think they’re lying, or mistaken?
I would only expect an appearance from a god that existed. But Christians tell me their god will appear to everyone - any day now - and establish its kingdom on earth. Why would you think if that happened that you wouldn’t even know it?

 

[shunyadragon]

Your response only served to prove that everything I posted was in fact what most of you atheists here believe. And of course you wanted to argue about how righteous those beliefs are because you truly believe in them.

I am not an atheist. There is no proof of atheism or theism. By far most atheists do not believe there is proof, but many if not most theist believe there is proof God exists, ie apologetic logical arguments.

By far most atheist acknowledge there is no prrof, but on the other hand many theists claim there is proof when none exists.And that was my point. All this BS about "unbelief" is just a lie that so many atheists these days are telling themselves and anyone dumb enough to buy onto it, to try and hide their own beliefs while they attack everyone else's. It's the whole reason they so love and insist on the "kangaroo court" style debate gambit. It keeps them on the attack and their "opponent" on the hot seat. So they never get called on to back up their own beliefs the way they are always insisting that everyone else must.

Dishonest accusations of lying about questioning the beliefs of others, including myself is further evidence of your hostile, aggressive, angry and arrogant attitude toward others. It sounds like your accusing everyone as being atheists that do not believe as you do.

It is a apparent you are taking a version of a literal Biblical view based on your posts. Yes in the NT it is said that people in their hearts believe, but nonetheless deny believing, Also previously you questioned whether atheists, and of course others, can deny the reality of the Noah flood based on the evidence.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I attended an online funeral yesterday and it reminded me of the sense of complete loss that atheists experience at such events. They have nothing to look forward to...no hope.

whether or not you wish to see another life after this one...that is your choice to make. All that i can do, is highlight the narrowmindedness of your stubborn choice.

I can also remind others that the philosophy of Christianity is quite explicit when it says we must choose God. If we do not participate in the team, we are not a team member and are therefore excluded...its that simple!

Joshua 24:15 King James Version​

​

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

I can't choose to be convinced by something I'm not. And rather than feeling hopeless when a loved one passes, I'm instead inclined to cherish the time I do have as precious for its brevity.

And considering my loved ones are mostly non-christians, I'm saved time worrying about whether they'd be going to the same afterlife.

Frankly I'm not concerned with afterlives at all as I think treating this life like a weigh station to the next cheapens it, and takes you out of the now.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why would God 'appear' to anyone? How would we even know? What would God look like?

In the distant past and today it is voices in their head, There are many conflicting claims today of believers having visions and talking to God, Jesus and Mary at minimum.

Your comment seems to imply that you are expecting there should be an appearance from God. But why? And how?

Based on the Biblical 'hands on' anthropomorphic God that God was continually and miraculously interfering in the natural chain of events, Yes, God talked to Noah, Moses, Abraham and Job, Mary, Joseph and at least and an appearance to Paul..

 

[F1fan]

Why would God 'appear' to anyone? How would we even know? What would God look like?

Right, there's no rational basis to conclude any God exists. Believers can't explain how they came to conclude any exists, they just do. The social sciences explain how social learning implants knowledge, and even false ideas.

Hebrews created Yahweh and they assert that a Messiah will come to save the Israelites. Christians came along and say that Jesus is the Messiah and offers salvation to mankind, even though Jews disagree. Muslims reject Jesus as a Messiah, and that Yahweh has a new set of rules for mankind. So how do we reconcile so many disagreements among those who know what Yahweh is and wants?

Your comment seems to imply that you are expecting there should be an appearance from God. But why? And how?

Some believers claim they relate to their God, but these tend to not explain that there was an independent od engaging with them. It's worth noting that believers seldom agree what God is and wants, but oddly they claim the God always agrees with them. I would think a real God would use its omnipotence and make an appearance to set things straight.

 

[shunyadragon]

Quite right. Just answering your comment about not changing your assessment by letting you know it wasn't my intention to change your assessment, only to say that how he comes across to me (one of the others) is different.



I'm not trying to justify anything. I've had a different experience than you, that's all.

Please note post #310 @PureX accusing atheists and I of lying about our beliefs.

 

[PureX]

I am not an atheist. There is no proof of atheism or theism.

Then why are you arguing about my comments toward atheists? And how can I even believe you when so many atheists, themselves, are constantly lying about what atheism is and what atheists believe and don't believe?

 

[shunyadragon]

Then why are you arguing about my comments toward atheists? And how can I even believe you when so many atheists, themselves, are constantly lying about what atheism is and what atheists believe and don't believe?

I am not arguing against your irrational, arrogant, angry, hostile and dishonest argument against atheism. You have not presented a raton discussion as to why atheists and theists believe and disagree,

I have been clear and specific about this in previous posts and you choose to dodge the issue and the problems or actually responding rationall to my questions and points concerning your attitude.

Empathy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Empathy -Empathy is generally described as the ability to take on another's perspective, to understand, feel and possibly share and respond to their experience.[1][2][3] There are more (sometimes conflicting) definitions of empathy that include but is not limited to social, cognitive, and emotional processes primarily concerned with understanding others.[2][3][4] Often times, empathy is considered to be a broad term, and broken down into more specific concepts and types that include cognitive empathy, emotional (or affective) empathy, somatic empathy, and spiritual empathy.

 

[PureX]

Why not? Christians claim their god appears to them all the time...

Estimate how many Christians are living on the planet right now, and then ask yourself how many of them have actually claimed to have seen God. I think you're letting your own hyperbole run away with your reason.

I would only expect an appearance from a god that existed.

Why? What logical reason do you have for expecting that?

But Christians tell me their god will appear to everyone - any day now - and establish its kingdom on earth.

So because a few Christians that you've encountered think this, you are expecting that God should oblige them? Why should God oblige their beliefs?

Why would you think if that happened that you wouldn’t even know it?

Because I have no possible way of verifying that something claiming to be God, is God. And neither does anyone else.

I don't think you're thinking this through.

 

[shunyadragon]

Estimate how many Christians are living on the planet right now, and then ask yourself how many of them have actually claimed to have seen God. I think you're letting your own hyperbole run away with your reason.

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65 PERCENT OF CHURCHGOERS SAY THEY HAVE DAILY QUIET TIME WITH GOD: LIFEWAY POLL​

Nearly two-thirds of Protestant churchgoers say they have a daily moment with God, according to a new Lifeway Research survey that examined not only the frequency of “quiet times” but also their elements.



The poll, released Tuesday, found that 44 percent of Protestant churchgoers say they have a quiet time with God once a day, while 21 percent say they practice it more than once a day for a total of 65 percent. Seventeen percent said they have a quiet time “several times” a week, while 7 percent responded, “once a week.” Churchgoers were asked, “How often do you intentionally spend time alone with God?”
Churchgoers with evangelical beliefs were more likely to select “more than once a day” compared to those without evangelical beliefs (30 percent compared to 15 percent).

“We see a pattern in Scripture of followers of God withdrawing to spend time alone with Him. Jesus Christ, Himself also did this,” said Scott McConnell, executive director of Lifeway Research. “Most Protestant churchgoers continue this relational interaction with God and use a variety of resources as they do.”
Churchgoers also were asked what their quiet time involves. Praying “in my own words” (83 percent) topped the list, followed by thanking God (80 percent), praising God (62 percent), confessing sins (49 percent), reading from the Bible or devotional (39 percent), repeating a set prayer (20 percent) and considering God’s characteristics (18 percent).
“There are many reasons to pray a set prayer. Whether someone is praying the model prayer Jesus gave or repeating the same request to God each day, these can be meaningful,” McConnell said. “At the same time, Scripture also records Psalms and prayers within its narrative accounts that show how personal and forthright we can be when talking to God in our own words.”​