Are Jews still God's Chosen People?

[JM2C]

Also the apostle Paul testified about the future teaching of untruth, for we read in 2Timothy 4:3-4: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”

You are creating “myths” by saying Romans 11:11 and Romans 11:26 are lies

 

[JM2C]

Again 2Peter 2:1-2 is very specific by saying: “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned.”

Mt 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Some of Paul’s letters are really “hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort. 2Pe 3:16”

 

[Moishe3rd]

The most common theme in Torah is that us Jews must do our best to obey the Law but, as already mentioned, it never was assumed that any mortal could keep the entire Law over their entire lifetime. If we mess up, there are two provisions provided in Torah, one of punishment for that particular violation, and another is for our opportunity to repent and seek forgiveness.

If it it were that the violation of one Law was essentially the violation of them all, then the death penalty would have been cited in Torah for each and every violation. So, if you didn't keep kosher for just one meal, you must die by being stoned. But that's clearly not found in Torah or even hinted at.

As far as forgiveness is concerned, please look up "forgive" and its variations as found in Torah in a concordance, and what you'll see is that we can be forgiven of our sins, and the Temple sacrifices is only one means to do so.

I'm really not trying to be rude to folk but, I do think that there is a grave misunderstanding as to what "Jewish Law" really entails.
The example you give regarding not eating kosher would be just one of the many examples of how the death penalty was nearly impossible to implement.
I am sure many people are aware of this but, here is a synopsis for those who do not know.

According to Jewish Law - as given in the Torah - the following would have to occur in order for a Jew to be sentenced to death:
The Jew would have to be totally familiar with the Law that he was violating and under what circumstances he was liable.
The Jew would have to be warned by two reliable witnesses who saw him violating this Law that he was liable to the death penalty.
The Jew would then have to repeat this infraction in front of two reliable witnesses after he was warned and with full knowledge that he was committing this infraction.
The Jew would then have to be brought to the legally appointed Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem while the Temple was extant to be tried.
At least two reliable witnesses would have to testify that ALL of the above occurred.
After hearing the evidence, if the Sanhedrin voted 100% that the Jew was guilty, that Jew would then go free as a 100% conviction for the death penalty is an invalid conviction.
There are also a plethora of other mitigating circumstances where the Jew could not be convicted.

This is the simple understanding of a death penalty case. It is far more complex than I have laid out here.

 

[Levite]

No, the only and true God has the monopoly, for the only way to Christ is through God, the only way to God is true Christ. in other words You must believe in God, any God, before Christ is offered to you, then Christ will lead you to repentance back to the true God. Very simple really.

Supercessionism and universalism is just arrogance and religious imperialism.

Few things are quite so offensive as someone saying "Mine is the only truth, only my way leads to God."

It's all the more ironic to say that you think the Jews failed in keeping the commandments, so the answer is to worship a man and call him a god....

 

[metis]

Metis, in your opinion, does this apply to all the Halacha or more specifically, the ethical and moral ones ?

Also, who sets the criteria for meeting the Halacha ? I would say, we do, as individuals....so it is up to us whether we meet or fail the Halacha.....so it is a subjective rather than objective test......do you agree or disagree?

One can easily argue that all of halacha is "ethical and moral", but that only "works" if one accepts the paradigm that Torah is divinely inspired and inerrant if interpreted properly. You well know that this is not the path that I take, but nevertheless I do feel that halacha has value to it in other ways and reasons.

As far as I'm concerned, no matter how we look at this, the decision to follow halacha mostly is a personal one. For example, if one is brought up in an orthodox household, eventually they still will have to decide as they mature whether to continue on doing as such or whether they will take a different path.
However, and it's a big HOWEVER, Judaism has never been just "do your own thing", and this is evident in that so many of our Laws deal with actions that we should or shouldn't do in the context of one another. IOW, the ramificartions is that there's definitely something to be said about leadership, bet din, some binding decisions, and halacha in general.

Obviously, this sets up a potential "friction" whereas what we might think is right and proper might be in conflict with the teachings and the authority. In this scenario, my main feeling is that we need to weigh the pros and cons, and I simply cannot come up with any magic formula as to how every single one of us are to do that. Therefore, I need to weigh in with what's good for me, but I also have to weigh in what's good for us as Jews and for society in general.

The bottom line with me: we need to have respect for both individual discernment and halacha, and then do our best to sort it all out as best as we can.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There are three very different questions:

1. Are Jews still God's chosen people?
2. How do Jews understand the concept of being God's chosen people?
3. What can be inferred from the Christian New Testament regarding the current status of Jews?

The first question is worthless on a number of levels. The second has value , but is best addressed in the Judaism DIR. The third is an invitation to Christian apologetics and deserves to be categorized (and isolated) as such.

 

[roger1440]

No, the only and true God has the monopoly, for the only way to Christ is through God, the only way to God is true Christ. in other words You must believe in God, any God, before Christ is offered to you, then Christ will lead you to repentance back to the true God. Very simple really.

How would anyone know if Christ is offered to them? There is literality thousands upon thousands of Christian denominations around the world. They all do not teach the same thing. One church teaches God hates faggots, another church drinks snake poison. The list goes on and on.

 

[roger1440]

If you belong to God, He teaches you. The pupil when he is fully thought, will be like is teacher.

This "he" would be God and "you" would be the Jews, true?

 

[free spirit]

I was expecting such an answer. Ok, so you make up your own rules. How exactly do you know that Jesus was filled with grace and truth. What exactly does it mean to be filled with grace and truth? How exactly do you know that being filled with the Holy Spirit gives you the right to be above the law? What exactly does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit? What is the Holy Spirit? How can something that is the law be above the law? You say a bunch of things that sound good but don't really mean anything.

Ok, first let me say it doesn't only sound good it is good.
I) grace is the character of God; and truth is not only that which is contrary to falsehood, but it is also a state of existence, the day will come when only “Truth” will exist in eternity. Then we can confidently say that “Truth” is a state of unchanging holiness.
II) As you know men's spirit is fleshly it needs the laws to guide him into the way of righteousness, but if one has the Holy Spirit, His Holy character takes over and that man doesn't need the law to guide him.
III) The Holy Spirit is the Holy Character of God.
IV) God's character is above the law because He made the law, however, to be more specific: God and the law are one and the same.
V) The presence of the Holy Spirit is felt in many different ways: He makes his presence known by communicate with you, not necessarily with spoken words, He gives you insights of His words and confirms it. He helps you to overcome your habitual sins, He guides you to put to death the word of iniquity, which uninvited floods our mind with evil thoughts.
VI) I am show that if you have a fear of God, you will be wishing to have His help in these matters too.
If these things still don't mean anything to you, I will be praying for you.

 

[free spirit]

Please stop preaching and get on to the subject. Are you telling me that while Paul was writing or dictating this letter to Tertius he was deliberately telling lies and at the same time telling the truth, and you could discern which one is the truth from the lie?

No, Paul wrote the truth, but the enemy of the truth altered Paul's message.

 

[free spirit]

Paul does uphold importance of Torah in one letter and declares it antiquated in another, or he seems to anyway. Sometimes we just can't agree about things. Paul A doesn't exclude Paul B over this. They are still together and are included in the same canon. One does not try to silence the other. Instead they have faith in God and continue working faithfully rather than talking faithfully over one another.

...and yet Torah is considered to be a dispensation of the Holy Spirit, and Christians are advised to fill themselves with it with these words "Don't be drunken with wine but be filled with the spirit." There is so much more than one way to view this, so much more than one way we are urged to view it. Is there any wonder that Acts records a disagreement about it? "We hold this treasure in jars of clay" not in "one very smart jar of clay." More than one person. This is the "Be excellent and innocent of evil and the God of Peace will soon crush Satan under your feet" and the opposite of it is what has happened.

You can't crush Satan by talking. I mean the opposite has happened: because Christians have been critical of each other, splitting and splitting until only individuals remain, Satan has not been crushed. I will add that Historically it began with criticism of Jews. "Oh those darn Jews. Always frolicking. Always nit picking." Once Christians felt they could judge Jews they began to judge each other. Now its "Oh, those darn (fill in the blank) they just don't get it." So now the Christians have become so divided that it has come full circle, and we are back to criticizing Jews again for lack of another target.

There is only one Paul, his message appear to be contradictory but it is not, you have to read it in context keeping present that if the message denigrates the apostle in any way, you know it is not of God, but an enemy of Christ has haltered the words. The majority or Christians today considers the NT to be inerrant, it is not so. Get yourself my book from amazon, 'The Way Got Told It" or allow me to sent you one.
You wrote, "Be excellent and innocent of evil and the God of Peace will soon crush Satan under your feet" It means, that if you do that, evil will not longer dwell in you. In other words repent.
Now about the Jews:
We should know that they were chosen to fulfil a task and this task is explained in the book of Acts 3:22-23: “Moses said the Lord God shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren; to Him you shall give heed in everything He says to you. And it shall be that every soul that does not heed that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.” So we now know that the purpose they were chosen was for the privilege of bringing Christ into the world, which is a great privilege in any language.
But having fulfilled that privileged task they are no longer chosen, for the purpose is no longer there. Verse 23 that is mentioned above is final as far as God is concerned because it says: “And it shall be that every soul that does not heed that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”
Consequently, now there is a new task and purpose for the new chosen people, for we read in 1Peter 2:9-10: “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a Holy Nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.”
Obviously the new chosen people are the believers in the Lord Jesus Christ who have received His spirit in their hearts. It is confirmed in Romans 2:28-29: “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.” Holy Spirit-filled Christians can see from the above scriptures that we are the new chosen people and according to the above scripture we are also the spiritual Jews.

 

[Brickjectivity]

If these things still don't mean anything to you, I will be praying for you.

Translates to "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, because God wouldn't let me be wrong."

There is only one Paul, his message appear to be contradictory but it is not, you have to read it in context keeping present that if the message denigrates the apostle in any way, you know it is not of God, but an enemy of Christ has haltered the words.

I must purchase your book, and then I will be right. Clearly if I disagree with you then I must be wrong. God wouldn't let you be wrong. He'd only let me be wrong, because I'm not you.

 

[free spirit]

Peter was talking about Paul’s letters here, did you know that?.
Some of Paul’s letters are really “hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort”

Distort in what way?

Example #1: Romans 11:11 Paul said:

Ro 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

But you said or you twisted or “distorted”
NOTE: You said "You wrote Ro 11:11" No, not me Tertius did by Paul's.



Example #2: Romans 11:26 Paul said:

Ro 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

But you said or you twisted or “distorted”



Now you tell me who is rightly dividing the word of God or distorting the word of God? You or Paul?

I am not distorting the word, Paul is not distorting the word; an enemy of Christ has distorted the word in the first or second century. Here is an example.
In Matthew 27:52-53 we trustfully read: “And the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.”
I believe that the above two verses report something which never took place and therefore those lies are used to divert our attention from the Lord, because it is impossible for it to have occurred before or after the resurrection of the Lord, for we read in 2Timothy 2:18 about: “Men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some.”
In Acts 2:29, Peter says, “Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.” So Peter effectively says some time after the day of Pentecost that the body of David is still in his tomb (Confirmed by Acts 2:30-36) It is reasonable for us to assume that if the body of King David did not qualify for that alleged resurrection we can be certain that it never took place.
In addition to that, the numbers of anomalies that those two verses contain are also an indication that our Lord never dictated them because:
1) The resurrection of the body will take place on the last day (Read John 11:24, 1Corinthians 15:52, and all of chapter 20 of Revelation.)
2) It should be obvious to anyone that even if those verses in Matthew were true, they are written in the wrong place and therefore are not in harmony with what was actually taking place. Jesus had just died and the alleged resurrection supposedly took place after His resurrection, so why write it there?
3) If the alleged resurrection was after the Lord’s resurrection, why is it conveniently connected with the strange natural things that were happening in relation with the Son of God’s death? (Earthquake etc.)
4) Also if those verses were true, the resurrection of our Lord with His heavenly body would become one of many and no longer one of a kind.
5) Any Christian writer would have known that Jerusalem was no longer the “HolyCity” because the presence of God was no longer in the temple (read Matthew 23:38) and the city’s destruction had been foretold (read Mark 13:2).
6) We should also consider that the above verses do nothing to advance the knowledge of God but they are used extensively by the untaught to promote their own useless fantasies. Those who do not understand the Word preach best through their fleshly imagination by abandoning themselves to colourfully speculate what Jesus supposedly did while He was dead in the tomb.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5 says it all: “For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the Knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.”
In other words, speculations are to be treated with the contempt they deserve, but the truth is supported by a variety of thought (or Scriptures) which are relevant to our every day lives and behaviour pleasing to Christ.
*edit*

 

[free spirit]

Translates to "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, because God wouldn't let me be wrong."

I must purchase your book, and then I will be right. Clearly if I disagree with you then I must be wrong. God wouldn't let you be wrong. He'd only let me be wrong, because I'm not you.

I am not in the business of selling books, when I said "allow me to sent you one" I meant, give me an address no money. If we do that we can discuss the matter fruitfully, us be on the same page, I can take criticisms, they make the best of me come out.

 

[Kolibri]

There is a problem with this logic,

2 Timothy 2:18 is talking about the resurrection to heavenly life as evident from verse 8-13. Prior to this there were other resurrections to earthly life as far back as via the prophets Elijah and Elisha. Jesus did not resurrect Lazarus to heavenly life but to the life he knew as a human. Realizing that there were resurrections prior to this - to earthly life - helps us realize that Matthew 27:52-53 would also be restoring humans to human life.

 

[Brickjectivity]

There is really no need for me to corrupt your fountain. God has chosen you, not me. Therefore only you should speak.

 

[Desert Snake]

There is really no need for me to corrupt your fountain. God has chosen you, not me. Therefore only you should speak.

Can you tell me how much of the bible you discount, so I can adjust my arguments?

 

[free spirit]

How would anyone know if Christ is offered to them? There is literality thousands upon thousands of Christian denominations around the world. They all do not teach the same thing. One church teaches God hates faggots, another church drinks snake poison. The list goes on and on.

I can only speak from experience, God lead me to a church (not my church) that spoke his word, the rest is history. How! I felt compelled to Go.

 

[free spirit]

This "he" would be God and "you" would be the Jews, true?

Yes the "He " is God and No the "You" would be the whosoever.

 

[free spirit]

Mt 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Some of Paul’s letters are really “hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort. 2Pe 3:16”

I am not a prophet, I use reason to make you think for yourself, and that reason that I offers is confirmed by scripture, you will know if it is false or true by the revelation of understanding that it gives you. The book speaks about God but you must remember that it is not God.